2.8 Flywheel balancing
Discussion
Being that a few here seem to be clued up in the world of the Cologne boat anchor fitted to my S1 
I thought I'd pose the question....
In the process of doing up my S1 currently, and that involves all new gaskets across the engine, cleaning/paint the block, new cam etc etc. I pulled the flywheel off the other day, and having never touched a Cologne to this level before (we don't get many at work) I noticed the flywheel has no dowels or woodruff key to align it to the crank. You could refit it in 6 different positions around the crankshaft!
I'm planning to have it refaced and lightened, but need to know if it's neutrally balanced (ie, can go on any which way as it doesn't matter), or whether it's balanced to the crank and I've just made a hole load of aggro for myself as the crank will now have to come out? The engine's only done 60k and is in great shape - would be annoying to have to pull it apart just because of the flywheel!
The local engineering firm can skim and lighten, but not balance. There is another firm 20 miles away who I used on my Citroen engine rebuild and they can balance the flywheel to the crank, so it's a case of pre-planning and logistics.
Anyone?
I thought I'd pose the question....In the process of doing up my S1 currently, and that involves all new gaskets across the engine, cleaning/paint the block, new cam etc etc. I pulled the flywheel off the other day, and having never touched a Cologne to this level before (we don't get many at work) I noticed the flywheel has no dowels or woodruff key to align it to the crank. You could refit it in 6 different positions around the crankshaft!
I'm planning to have it refaced and lightened, but need to know if it's neutrally balanced (ie, can go on any which way as it doesn't matter), or whether it's balanced to the crank and I've just made a hole load of aggro for myself as the crank will now have to come out? The engine's only done 60k and is in great shape - would be annoying to have to pull it apart just because of the flywheel!
The local engineering firm can skim and lighten, but not balance. There is another firm 20 miles away who I used on my Citroen engine rebuild and they can balance the flywheel to the crank, so it's a case of pre-planning and logistics.
Anyone?
Being that the mass the engine has to shift around is a fair bit lower than that of a Sierra/Capri or Granada, I figured the engine could afford to sacrifice a bit of rotational momentum in favour of throttle response! Not a huge amount, but many of the Capri chaps I've spoken to said it improves throttle pickup, which is pretty leisurely at best!
Reducing the overall weight of the engine wasn't quite what I had in mind
Reducing the overall weight of the engine wasn't quite what I had in mind
Alan Whitaker said:
Hi All
Don't think the bolots are all on the same PCD, so it will only go on one way ??
Alan
I have to be honest, I haven't actually tried refitting it as the engine's on a stand and access is restricted. But I have measured the spaces between the holes with a vernier and they appeared to be the same.Don't think the bolots are all on the same PCD, so it will only go on one way ??
Alan
It's possible the PCD is unequal, and I know I'd be happy if it was!
Ceejay73 said:
IF my memory serves correctly, (doesn't always). I Think you will find the bolts are all on the same PCD but not evenly spaced around the circumference of the circle, if that makes sense. Hard to describe better but should be obvious when offering fly to crank that it will only fit in one position.
HTH
Carl.
Cheers Carl, was hoping for something similar after a mate just had the same scenario with an Alfa 75, but having measured them with a vernier I think they're all equal. Hope not though!HTH
Carl.
Loach1 said:
In propshaft manufacturing, we mark the light side of each end of the shafts after balance correction. When assembled to the gearbox and diff, these marks are aligned with the heavy side of the mating parts, if they're balanced.
Unless your flywheel and crank were balanced as an assembly, your best bet would be to get the flywheel balanced a close to zero gcm as possible, and just bolt it back on at random. Of course, balancing the crank and flywheel together would be better, but a lot more hassle.
This was my plan really, just get it balanced to zero. I've since heard the cranks are zero balanced, so the theory lends itself. Unless your flywheel and crank were balanced as an assembly, your best bet would be to get the flywheel balanced a close to zero gcm as possible, and just bolt it back on at random. Of course, balancing the crank and flywheel together would be better, but a lot more hassle.
Just popped the 2.8 flywheel on the bathroom scales....6kg, so pretty light already.
Have conducted more research and been quoted £380 (yup, three-hundred & eighty pounds sterling) to balance the flywheel to the crank. Because it's a V6, they need all the rods....the lot.
The more I read, the more I'm hearing it's neutrally balanced, along with the crank. Like it's already been pointed out - it's a mass-production barge engine, and a pretty archaic one at that. I can't imagine Ford going to the trouble of balancing to that level.
What I'm going to do is have the balancing checked, to see if it is balanced to zero, and that being the case I'll have it refaced and lightened slightly. See where we go from there!
Cheers!
Have conducted more research and been quoted £380 (yup, three-hundred & eighty pounds sterling) to balance the flywheel to the crank. Because it's a V6, they need all the rods....the lot.
The more I read, the more I'm hearing it's neutrally balanced, along with the crank. Like it's already been pointed out - it's a mass-production barge engine, and a pretty archaic one at that. I can't imagine Ford going to the trouble of balancing to that level.
What I'm going to do is have the balancing checked, to see if it is balanced to zero, and that being the case I'll have it refaced and lightened slightly. See where we go from there!
Cheers!
Ceejay73 said:
Richard,
could you measure the thickness of your 2.8 flywheel? As apparently this is where the difference is, (no surprise). I put the vernier caliper on mine today and it was exactly 1" (25.4mm).I also weighed it with spring balance at about 8.4Kg, but the thickness measurement is probably a better judge as to what it is. The difference is supposed to be significant (around 5mm) and I would like to know as if I do turn out to have the heavy 2.9 item I will source a 2.8 one before I reassemble the car.
Cheers,
Carl.
25.4mm on mine.could you measure the thickness of your 2.8 flywheel? As apparently this is where the difference is, (no surprise). I put the vernier caliper on mine today and it was exactly 1" (25.4mm).I also weighed it with spring balance at about 8.4Kg, but the thickness measurement is probably a better judge as to what it is. The difference is supposed to be significant (around 5mm) and I would like to know as if I do turn out to have the heavy 2.9 item I will source a 2.8 one before I reassemble the car.
Cheers,
Carl.
Re-weighed it with spring balance - 8.4kg.
Weighed again with bathroom scales - 6kg.
One thing's for sure - I might not be under 14st after all
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