1988 S1 brake servo and master cylinder
Discussion
Hi all,
I know there have been some other posts on this (so apologies if some of you are losing the will to live on the subject) and various opinions and info on tbe internet, but I'm still not 100% on the correct upgrade for my S1. Is the PSA328 servo correct...I've seen a couple for the £350 mark recently? Is there another servo and cylinder that requires slight mods only to fit and still retains the integrity of the original?
My understanding is that the early models were fitted with a saab master cylinder which had a remote resevoir and a fiesta servo..., so does mine look like all fiesta mk2/mk3?
Any advice welcome!!
Cheers,
PhilH
.
I know there have been some other posts on this (so apologies if some of you are losing the will to live on the subject) and various opinions and info on tbe internet, but I'm still not 100% on the correct upgrade for my S1. Is the PSA328 servo correct...I've seen a couple for the £350 mark recently? Is there another servo and cylinder that requires slight mods only to fit and still retains the integrity of the original?
My understanding is that the early models were fitted with a saab master cylinder which had a remote resevoir and a fiesta servo..., so does mine look like all fiesta mk2/mk3?
Any advice welcome!!
Cheers,
PhilH
.
Thanks chaps.
Any particular date range on the ford Ka parts?
The cortina reference brings back fond memories....My father brought a 1.6 in navy blue must have been mid eighties, I can remember commenting just after he bought it on how I liked the way It whined louder and louder with acceleration and each gear change....don't think he was too impressed at the time!
The old girls don't whine like they used to!😄
Any particular date range on the ford Ka parts?
The cortina reference brings back fond memories....My father brought a 1.6 in navy blue must have been mid eighties, I can remember commenting just after he bought it on how I liked the way It whined louder and louder with acceleration and each gear change....don't think he was too impressed at the time!
The old girls don't whine like they used to!😄
Guy's thanks for the posts.
I'm glad I'm not the only one struggling to identify this!
I'm hoping that glenrobbo and I do have the same set-up and that I may be able to help shed some more light on it. I have the code from the band which is pretty clear 66231 02 38/62 380 W. The 0 at the end looks more like a closed bracket ) but I'm thinking its probably a slight miss-stamp.
I've looked through a ton of Tvr websites and no doubt the S series especially the 1 is not as well represented as say the chim's and Griff's! Yep I've checked out Racetech quite a few times but didn't know that Kitchski so thanks will give them a call.
One thing I can say with confidence is that the servo and cylinder must be original, not just because of the lousy condition but that I have all the history (including each owner) and all the major components that have been changed. looking under the bonnet not much has been, but as glenrobbo pointed out some of us (everyone to their own though) like to keep it as original as possible. I finding myself getting quite OCD trying to source original parts and attempting to bring her up to her former glory.
Yes no problem greymrj I'll send the chassis number over this evening and I'll send a few more shots which may be a bit clearer although probably still upside down!
I'm glad I'm not the only one struggling to identify this!
I'm hoping that glenrobbo and I do have the same set-up and that I may be able to help shed some more light on it. I have the code from the band which is pretty clear 66231 02 38/62 380 W. The 0 at the end looks more like a closed bracket ) but I'm thinking its probably a slight miss-stamp.
I've looked through a ton of Tvr websites and no doubt the S series especially the 1 is not as well represented as say the chim's and Griff's! Yep I've checked out Racetech quite a few times but didn't know that Kitchski so thanks will give them a call.
One thing I can say with confidence is that the servo and cylinder must be original, not just because of the lousy condition but that I have all the history (including each owner) and all the major components that have been changed. looking under the bonnet not much has been, but as glenrobbo pointed out some of us (everyone to their own though) like to keep it as original as possible. I finding myself getting quite OCD trying to source original parts and attempting to bring her up to her former glory.
Yes no problem greymrj I'll send the chassis number over this evening and I'll send a few more shots which may be a bit clearer although probably still upside down!
I had a search on the later Mk's and they looked quite different although there must have been a changeover period.
The link is below but they are looking for £300.00 with VAT so not exactly a cheap option from this place! But it may help in sourcing from elsewhere and identifying....it does say Girling!
http://www.newpartsonline.co.uk/index.php?option=P...
The link is below but they are looking for £300.00 with VAT so not exactly a cheap option from this place! But it may help in sourcing from elsewhere and identifying....it does say Girling!
http://www.newpartsonline.co.uk/index.php?option=P...
greymrj said:
Bow,wow,wow indeed thanks Glen;)
Lets not get carried away here. Finding what Phil and Glen have on their cars is unlikely to lead to something which might provide a solution for later cars. Finding that a Cortina servo was perhaps fitted on a couple of early S's , given when the Cortina went out of production, isnt much help for most S's.
You can see the distinctly squarer profile on the new servo Phil has.
Presuming that servo is an exact match when Phil takes the old one out, I would like the dimensional details for reference please. Phil, you presumably intend to use your old mastercylinder? If so please do make sure the piston drive pin from the old and the new servo are the same, and project the same amount.
While you are at it, can you please check and advise on the bore of the master cylinder, my guess is that it will be 20.6mm.
My reason for mentioning the sticker on the old servo is that the colour, size and wording might be distinctive to a particular manufacturer, and I can ask a mate about that.
(Note; Just for my ref re Ka. It appears that there are two non ABS systems, the pre 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 3 port and the post 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 4 port. Both use a L/D LM39033. The Ka with ABS uses a 22.2mm and LM39031. Needs checking with the Lucas/TRW original spec)
Yes I don't think its the answer to everyone's prayers but another piece of the puzzle on variants used I suppose. It also goes to show that the standard brake set-up works well enough with different components and what exactly is standard when it comes to insurance purposes on the S braking system is unclear!Lets not get carried away here. Finding what Phil and Glen have on their cars is unlikely to lead to something which might provide a solution for later cars. Finding that a Cortina servo was perhaps fitted on a couple of early S's , given when the Cortina went out of production, isnt much help for most S's.
You can see the distinctly squarer profile on the new servo Phil has.
Presuming that servo is an exact match when Phil takes the old one out, I would like the dimensional details for reference please. Phil, you presumably intend to use your old mastercylinder? If so please do make sure the piston drive pin from the old and the new servo are the same, and project the same amount.
While you are at it, can you please check and advise on the bore of the master cylinder, my guess is that it will be 20.6mm.
My reason for mentioning the sticker on the old servo is that the colour, size and wording might be distinctive to a particular manufacturer, and I can ask a mate about that.
(Note; Just for my ref re Ka. It appears that there are two non ABS systems, the pre 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 3 port and the post 9/96 uses a 20.6mm 4 port. Both use a L/D LM39033. The Ka with ABS uses a 22.2mm and LM39031. Needs checking with the Lucas/TRW original spec)
It may just give Glen and I answers / another option though and anyone else that sees the thread going forward if they have the same set-up....still not readily available or a cost effective one it would seem though at this point.
The master cylinder is actually ok just needs the seals replaced on the reservoir so yes I'll clean, spray up and use again, I just don't want to pay £300 for a servo without a little searching first. When I do change it the old servo will be donated for research purposes of course and I reckon you're right on the 20.6 for the cylinder...I've seen a few around that look identical and are detailed as such.
Will be sure to adjust the push rod length to match....I like the concern on here although I'm thinking its more for the S than the person
The other thing that amazes me (even given how things are now) is that some people would try and blame someone on here for some free helpful advice they gave if things didn't quite go to plan or they ploughed through a hedge backwards......sign of times gents! No blame from me if I find myself trying to stop the S Flintstone style!! All comments and ideas greatly appreciated.
phillpot said:
Phil and Glen,whats the diameter of your servo's?
With the build date crossover I can't help thinking they were "robbed" from the Wedge parts bin?
But judging by this old thread that doesn't make them any easier to source?
Phil,With the build date crossover I can't help thinking they were "robbed" from the Wedge parts bin?
But judging by this old thread that doesn't make them any easier to source?
I'd have to measure up to get exact but it must be around 8".
You could be right....I've also noticed one old for sale marked as off of a capri...looks the same.
I think thats the issue we are faced with...pay through the nose for new or buy a suspect old one which is probably as bad as the one you already have..unless completely failed of course.
It may give another option to look out for though.
glenrobbo said:
You see! I told you not to worry 
My memory is indeed absolutely hopeless.
Now where were we?
Ah yes! I've just been out with a tape measure, and some bits of wood to use as straight edges and as far as I can judge allowing for parallax error and wonky eyesight, the diameter at the widest point ( the flange ) is approximately about 7.75" or so, which is almost equivalent to 200mm ish or thereabouts. Roughly near enough.
So you can award yourself top marks for your guesstimation skills Phil.
Perhaps I was getting confused with the Fiesta servo.
Do I get top marks for confusion?
I trust this clarifies whatever it was we were trying to establish.
Nurse! Where's my medication?
A can of molyslip and a straight jacket will have you sorted in no time Glen! My memory is indeed absolutely hopeless.Now where were we?
Ah yes! I've just been out with a tape measure, and some bits of wood to use as straight edges and as far as I can judge allowing for parallax error and wonky eyesight, the diameter at the widest point ( the flange ) is approximately about 7.75" or so, which is almost equivalent to 200mm ish or thereabouts. Roughly near enough.So you can award yourself top marks for your guesstimation skills Phil.
Perhaps I was getting confused with the Fiesta servo.
Do I get top marks for confusion?
I trust this clarifies whatever it was we were trying to establish.
Nurse! Where's my medication?
The servo....yes of course I was talking the flange end if that's the closest to my guesstimation of 8".....my wife would vouch for my optimism!
Not sure what we have established actually....that our servo's are likely Girling as fitted to the Cortina MK3 or Wedge and that you can't get one unless its knackered or you part with £300.00.....result!
BillC99 said:
Hi all,
I am new to the S forum but I am currently rescuing a very sad S2 as a track car.
It has probably been covered at an earlier date,but what would be the problem in replacing the servo and master cylinder with one from a Sierra ? Surely they are still plentiful and I know many were a disc/ drum set up of similar sizes?
I now await being shot down in flames but remember I am not restoring a concours car !
Hi Bill,I am new to the S forum but I am currently rescuing a very sad S2 as a track car.
It has probably been covered at an earlier date,but what would be the problem in replacing the servo and master cylinder with one from a Sierra ? Surely they are still plentiful and I know many were a disc/ drum set up of similar sizes?
I now await being shot down in flames but remember I am not restoring a concours car !
I'm also new to the these forums.
Its a fair point bearing in mind the brake set up at the wheels is Sierra based. What has been established not just from this thread but others previously is that there are many variants on the S cars when it comes to the brake set-up.
I suppose the reluctance for many here is trying to stay true to the originality of their particular vehicle and to prove that it is safe to fit other options (beyond reasonable doubt) which is difficult to prove or disprove on an old TVR.
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