cooler air to the filter/airflow meter
Discussion
Ok Guys, here's me thoughts....
Any engine will run better if the air into it is cooler, for starters fibre glass holds the heat in, there isnt a great deal of ventilation in the engine bay and in the case of the sx the filter is in just about the worst posision you could think of behind the plenum,HOT,HOT,HOT....especilly in an Aussie summer 40deg+.....I'm thinking if I make a really smart ally air box to go over the K&N and attach to the bulkhead/firewall(the K&N intake ID is 66mm)with two 50mm inlets into the air box which will feed cool air from the two holes just inside from the driving lights in the front spoiler (there are already pipes from these to the dash air vents which i never use as roof is never on)if i run a silicone pipe from each hole to the air box I think this will go a long way to supplying a better and cooler air feed. As mensioned if the inlet to the air flow is 66mmID then if I can get two pipes to it at 46mmID or more each, then i think that should be an equal volume of air.
Thoughts and feedback positive or negative welcome
Cheers
Adam
Any engine will run better if the air into it is cooler, for starters fibre glass holds the heat in, there isnt a great deal of ventilation in the engine bay and in the case of the sx the filter is in just about the worst posision you could think of behind the plenum,HOT,HOT,HOT....especilly in an Aussie summer 40deg+.....I'm thinking if I make a really smart ally air box to go over the K&N and attach to the bulkhead/firewall(the K&N intake ID is 66mm)with two 50mm inlets into the air box which will feed cool air from the two holes just inside from the driving lights in the front spoiler (there are already pipes from these to the dash air vents which i never use as roof is never on)if i run a silicone pipe from each hole to the air box I think this will go a long way to supplying a better and cooler air feed. As mensioned if the inlet to the air flow is 66mmID then if I can get two pipes to it at 46mmID or more each, then i think that should be an equal volume of air.
Thoughts and feedback positive or negative welcome
Cheers
Adam
Ok Wedgemen......
topic bumped!!!!!
I have my prototype started, Im posting it now, as i go, so you can give advice or make comment while it is in production.....
I will be making this out of fiberglass, i was going to use Ally but it will just get hot, fibreglass on the other hand will keep the heat out.now you should see the concertina pipe that feeds the dash vents well both left and right will now feed cold air from the front air dam direct into the air filter box...the inlets are not on the box yet ive just marked where to put them tonight.....
I also took on board what cambelt said re.cool air flowing over the bonnet and down into the top of the engine bay.
now this is a work in progress and a bit of an exeriment but i think anything is a help, i will also be fitting a heat shield gasket for the plenum im hoping to be able to fit a 10mm one...
please all comments welcome, ive done some research as cold air induction is common here in OZ but not on TVRs
Cheers
Adam
topic bumped!!!!!
I have my prototype started, Im posting it now, as i go, so you can give advice or make comment while it is in production.....
I will be making this out of fiberglass, i was going to use Ally but it will just get hot, fibreglass on the other hand will keep the heat out.now you should see the concertina pipe that feeds the dash vents well both left and right will now feed cold air from the front air dam direct into the air filter box...the inlets are not on the box yet ive just marked where to put them tonight.....
I also took on board what cambelt said re.cool air flowing over the bonnet and down into the top of the engine bay.
now this is a work in progress and a bit of an exeriment but i think anything is a help, i will also be fitting a heat shield gasket for the plenum im hoping to be able to fit a 10mm one...
please all comments welcome, ive done some research as cold air induction is common here in OZ but not on TVRs
Cheers
Adam
[quote=Campbell]Adam in liking your air box, have you been using it on the car when you took it out for your big hot run...
no I`ve not used it at all yet, it`s only made of ply, mdf and bog, it would probably go up in flames.........
so much for cool air, i think i`ll just have to bite the bullet and make it.....
and keep me fingers`n`toes crossed
no I`ve not used it at all yet, it`s only made of ply, mdf and bog, it would probably go up in flames.........
so much for cool air, i think i`ll just have to bite the bullet and make it.....and keep me fingers`n`toes crossed
a bit more progress...
I did`nt like that small slot and it was obstructing the bonnet closing so I`ve cut more away and along the edge i can put a stiff foam rubber strip so it seals to the bonnet when it is closed.....
I`m now thinking about what Adam Q and the Hatter have said re. the obstruction of exiting hot air,
all up it only 190mm so it will only take a small % of the gap at the top of the bonnet, the older 350s have no bonnet vents so maybe this will equal it out, as you say only one way to find out.....
Wedg1e, what was i thinking, those silly fan things!!!!!! I`ve done a bit more R`n`D and as you say the longer the air travels along the hose the quicker it goes, however where it penatrates the wheel arches i`ll need to fit a couple of 90deg bends which may slow the flow....
Here are the points where the hose fit to the airbox
you can just see the passenger side pipe attach point under the AFM....
here it is out of the car, the large hole is only there so you can get the filter in once fitted it will have a cover plate.
this is basicly a plug from it i`ll make a mould then I can make some airboxes, but they`ll only fit SX`s, but if it works, IF, then the concept should work where the air filter usually goes maybe better..
Keep your thoughts comming, it really helps
Cheers
Adam
Adam Q are you on Skype, any of you?
I did`nt like that small slot and it was obstructing the bonnet closing so I`ve cut more away and along the edge i can put a stiff foam rubber strip so it seals to the bonnet when it is closed.....
I`m now thinking about what Adam Q and the Hatter have said re. the obstruction of exiting hot air,
all up it only 190mm so it will only take a small % of the gap at the top of the bonnet, the older 350s have no bonnet vents so maybe this will equal it out, as you say only one way to find out.....
Wedg1e, what was i thinking, those silly fan things!!!!!! I`ve done a bit more R`n`D and as you say the longer the air travels along the hose the quicker it goes, however where it penatrates the wheel arches i`ll need to fit a couple of 90deg bends which may slow the flow....
Here are the points where the hose fit to the airbox
you can just see the passenger side pipe attach point under the AFM....
here it is out of the car, the large hole is only there so you can get the filter in once fitted it will have a cover plate.
this is basicly a plug from it i`ll make a mould then I can make some airboxes, but they`ll only fit SX`s, but if it works, IF, then the concept should work where the air filter usually goes maybe better..
Keep your thoughts comming, it really helps
Cheers
Adam
Adam Q are you on Skype, any of you?
Hi All,
Well I decided to try to make a bit more room and try to tidy up the heater hoses, which was all well and good until I tried to manipulate the bridge hose, it was so brittle it just snapped and of course water pissed everywhere,at least its not going to let go while i`m out now. any way its all back together now and much neater and a bit more room for the airbox.......
I have now finished the plug from which the mould will be made and my mate the slushy or fiberglasser has had a look and all is ok but because it is so intricate the mould will have to be in three bits, but this is good as it means the mould is good for more than one use, so if it works and you own an SX..........
I`ve now found a place that supplies the silicone hose and these u~bute joiners and in black too!!!!so i`ll try to get them tomorrow....and slushy Dave will glass it up next week, so a couple of weeks and we`ll know if I`ve completely waisted my time......
Well I decided to try to make a bit more room and try to tidy up the heater hoses, which was all well and good until I tried to manipulate the bridge hose, it was so brittle it just snapped and of course water pissed everywhere,at least its not going to let go while i`m out now. any way its all back together now and much neater and a bit more room for the airbox.......
I have now finished the plug from which the mould will be made and my mate the slushy or fiberglasser has had a look and all is ok but because it is so intricate the mould will have to be in three bits, but this is good as it means the mould is good for more than one use, so if it works and you own an SX..........
I`ve now found a place that supplies the silicone hose and these u~bute joiners and in black too!!!!so i`ll try to get them tomorrow....and slushy Dave will glass it up next week, so a couple of weeks and we`ll know if I`ve completely waisted my time......
Ok chaps,
the mould has been cast....
going well so far I`ll drill and bolt the flanges together tomorrow so it will re~locate then we can split the mould and get the blue plug out and finally make the product...... if this works it will fit any wedge you would just have to turn over the AFM and locate as in the SX`s i`m not sure how many i could pop out of this mould before it is knackered, but hey lets see if it works first;)otherwise it will be a fancy plant pot, maybe we could hold a comp for possible uses.....
Adam
the mould has been cast....
going well so far I`ll drill and bolt the flanges together tomorrow so it will re~locate then we can split the mould and get the blue plug out and finally make the product...... if this works it will fit any wedge you would just have to turn over the AFM and locate as in the SX`s i`m not sure how many i could pop out of this mould before it is knackered, but hey lets see if it works first;)otherwise it will be a fancy plant pot, maybe we could hold a comp for possible uses.....
Adam
somthing to show!
now the only testing I have done so far is drive it hard an all seems well....
I was able to test the temp all be it a bit crude with a digital thermometer and a metal probe that I was able to cable tie to the filter.
The temp on the day was 27 degrees.
With the probe on the outside of the air box (in the engine bay) the top temp driving at speed was 44 degrees, in traffic it went up to 55 degrees (40 min drive).
with the probe on the inside of the airbox, attached to the filter (40 min drive home) the temp averaged at 22 degrees somtimes rising to 27-28 degrees in traffic 31-32 degrees and parked 35 degrees.....
As you can see in the pics i am still using the old plastic tubing that used to feed the air vents in the dash so room for improvment, but it does work and seems to be more responsive but the silicone pipes will make a big difference http://www.mscn.com.au/scripts/prodView.asp?idprod...
Im also trying to get my hands on a boost gauge to test the pressure in the plenum..
Will keep you posted
Adam
now the only testing I have done so far is drive it hard an all seems well....
I was able to test the temp all be it a bit crude with a digital thermometer and a metal probe that I was able to cable tie to the filter.
The temp on the day was 27 degrees.
With the probe on the outside of the air box (in the engine bay) the top temp driving at speed was 44 degrees, in traffic it went up to 55 degrees (40 min drive).
with the probe on the inside of the airbox, attached to the filter (40 min drive home) the temp averaged at 22 degrees somtimes rising to 27-28 degrees in traffic 31-32 degrees and parked 35 degrees.....
As you can see in the pics i am still using the old plastic tubing that used to feed the air vents in the dash so room for improvment, but it does work and seems to be more responsive but the silicone pipes will make a big difference http://www.mscn.com.au/scripts/prodView.asp?idprod...
Im also trying to get my hands on a boost gauge to test the pressure in the plenum..
Will keep you posted
Adam
Campbell said:
Thats looking good Adam.
Keep us informed in your findings witht the temp difference, i have tried some thing like this on the SEAC with a remote digi temp gauge and a sheld made out of cardboard and silver tape.
Cambelt
I`ll keep adding info as i get it...Keep us informed in your findings witht the temp difference, i have tried some thing like this on the SEAC with a remote digi temp gauge and a sheld made out of cardboard and silver tape.
Cambelt
this is made to fit an SX but if you were able to relocate the air filter it would work on any wedge, i`d say it would work better again in the UK as the air temp is lower ( captain obveious) what i mean is the gain would be more, if that makes sence
well I managed to get some heat resistant ducting at a discount rate, and it has improved the air intake temp again, the flow of air has also improved as the old ribed s
t had holes in it and had been crushed by the manditory TVR cable ties.the temp at the filter is about 50% cooler now to what it was, it now avreages 22deg C as speed, it will go up when you stop but is down again within a mile.
it doesn`t seem to restrict the flow of air but i do intend to put a figure on plenum pressure with and without, i`m trying to borrow a boost gauge.....
Adam
It sounds the same, seems to have a bit more oomph, i`m guessing back to how it would be in a cooler climate, i`ll feel more difference once it cools down here...........
What ECU have you fitted Cambelt?
I`m reluctant to loose the flapper as its what makes the wedges sound so good, all the pops and bangs,
I`m wondering if you could leave the flapper there even if it is not in use???????any thoughts anyone????
Adam
What ECU have you fitted Cambelt?
I`m reluctant to loose the flapper as its what makes the wedges sound so good, all the pops and bangs,
I`m wondering if you could leave the flapper there even if it is not in use???????any thoughts anyone????
Adam
adam quantrill said:
Pah! Mine was much simpler - a pressure gauge linked to the plenum. No electronics and you can see the boost nicely in the cockpit. I used some plumbing microbore tubing to take the line through the bulkhead. There is a blanked-off vacuum hole in the middle of the plenum.
Yes this has been my intention for a while, a mate has one but I'm still waiting, I think I'll just go get one.... Being a bit time poor isn't helping. Adam is yours a boost gauge or a pressure gauge as the pressure gauges I've seen have too larger increments as it will be I'm thinking around 6 psi?????
I'll have to pop down to
Where did you mount it? Any pics?
Cheers
Aus. Adam
Oz2 said:
adam quantrill said:
Pah! Mine was much simpler - a pressure gauge linked to the plenum. No electronics and you can see the boost nicely in the cockpit. I used some plumbing microbore tubing to take the line through the bulkhead. There is a blanked-off vacuum hole in the middle of the plenum.
Yes this has been my intention for a while, a mate has one but I'm still waiting, I think I'll just go get one.... Being a bit time poor isn't helping. Adam is yours a boost gauge or a pressure gauge as the pressure gauges I've seen have too larger increments as it will be I'm thinking around 6 psi?????
I'll have to pop down to
Where did you mount it? Any pics?
Cheers
Aus. Adam
Well I finally got it all together and working.
I ended up buying a boost gauge and it mounted very nicely where the clock was (never used the clock anyway),I also got the kit with the proper fittings and Adam I did fit it too the blank on the plenum.
The boost is reading around 5.5 to 6 psi with or without the cool air induction but with the cool air induction on it reduces the air temp inside the air filter by 50 % while moving
So all up a success I think, now I just need to tidy it up a bit.
Cheers
Adam
I ended up buying a boost gauge and it mounted very nicely where the clock was (never used the clock anyway),I also got the kit with the proper fittings and Adam I did fit it too the blank on the plenum.
The boost is reading around 5.5 to 6 psi with or without the cool air induction but with the cool air induction on it reduces the air temp inside the air filter by 50 % while moving
So all up a success I think, now I just need to tidy it up a bit.
Cheers
Adam
mmmmm this has been going on for a while......
another job, jobed...
to help with reducing the air temp and plenum temp i fitted an insulator..........
and the result of that after a short but enthusiastic drive was........
to......
pretty happy with that, it was a 25deg day too.
and with all that im still getting 6psi boost at WOT.
cheers
Adam
another job, jobed...
to help with reducing the air temp and plenum temp i fitted an insulator..........
and the result of that after a short but enthusiastic drive was........
to......
pretty happy with that, it was a 25deg day too.
and with all that im still getting 6psi boost at WOT.
cheers
Adam
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