Guys i need some advise before i burn this car

[ralph350i]

Hi
Well i am now at a complete loss as i cant get the timing correct, so here's the issue, so i set pully to tdc and check to see if piston is at the top, then i adjsut the dizzy as show in the picture to lead 1, you can see the mark



so i try to start the car in which at first appears to want to go, then the car start back firing etc, so i move the pully back to TDC and check the rotor arm postion which has now moved dead 180 degs


and rotor arm end up now in this postion


so surely if it's set, how the hell does it move out of postion???? or is it just me being a complete twit

i really could do with some advise please guys

Many thanks

Ralph

Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 14th April 16:21

[ralph350i]

jock sproket said:

ralph me and the wild rover rebuilt his oil pump and gearing redone the timing disovered each mark on pulley equels 2 degrees not 1 and when you turn engine one full revolution rotar arm only moves 180 degrees second turn puts rotar arm back to number 1 lead.Hope this gets you going.

loud n proud

sproket

Spocket
Thanks it make sense now

cheers

Ralph

Edited by ralph350i on Saturday 14th April 19:12

[ralph350i]

carsy said:

You need to be sure you are on TDC compression ( both valves shut ). and not TDC when its coming up on the exhaust stroke.

Carsy
this could well be what i am missing, Thanks and to all the other members thanks very much for your input i have been doing pretty much what you have advised already apart from hopefull having the car on the exhaust stoke, i,ll check tomorrow and hopefully this will work

Kind Regards to all

Ralph

[ralph350i]

haircutmike said:

If your stuck, let me know as I'm in Surrey and have a timing gun also.

Morning Mike
Thats very kind of you to offer mate, but i think i have my head around the issue and off out in a bit to try

many thanks

ralph

[ralph350i]

cheers Mike
Well set the timing on the compression stoke and it still is back firing and not starting, i have checked all the leads, cleaned the plugs and it still will not run, the only thing i can see, is the plugs are pretty dry and the exhaust is very wet???
I know the timing is correct now as i put a wet tissue in plug one and hand cranked until it pops out, thus compression, so god only knows what the hell i am doing wrong, any advise would be great, cheers, ralph

[ralph350i]

mrzigazaga said:

Hi Ralph..Dry plugs sounds like NO fuel is getting through..What do you mean by "Wet exhaust"??..How is the coolant level...Ziga

Hi Zig
loads of fuel in car and i can see the pump fueling the carb mate?? the exhaust you can see petrol i think running out the back of them, coolant level is fine mate.

[ralph350i]

carsy said:

Now you are on compression stroke TDC. Are you positive the rotor arm is pointing to number 1 plug lead. If it is and still wont go you need to check for a good spark and fuel.

Have you got fuel? You say the plugs were dry.

Yep am postive rotor is facing 1 mate and can see the fuel being pumped in from the carb???? unless the carb which is new has a fault???

[ralph350i]

jagracer said:

Forget any changes you have made, go back to basics and start from the beginning. Get No1 at TDC compression and time from there making sure you have the leads in the correct order, I still say you have it 180 deg out. If you are in any doubt as to whether it is a fuel problem try pouring a drop of petrol straight in the top of the carb before you crank it.

Cheers Jagracer
i have done this about 30 times, started from the beginning checked leads, plugs, made sure that it on compression stoke ( wet tissue in plug hole being fired out) and that rotor arm is facing 1???, but after thinking about it, it must be on exhaust valve because the fuel is being chucked out of the exhaust, so whatever i am doing wrong i am now at a complete loss, could the cam timing have jumped as i have a bad knocking noise from the top end, ie tappets i think??

cheers

Ralph

[ralph350i]

jagracer said:

een there and got dozens of T Shirts to prove it. What had you done to the engine to need to re-time it anyway? Could there be any other fault? Have you tried moving the leads round 180deg or even getting someone to turn the dizzy while you try and start it. Although it shouldn't make too much difference as it should run (even if it's rough), don't forget you don't want it timed at TDC, you need it firing about 10deg before. Try having the rotor pointing slightly before No1 and get someone to turn the dizzy as you start it.
What part of Surrey are you in?
If it's any consolation, last time I rebuilt my straight 6 it took me two hours of head scratching and kicking the mother in law before I got it going.

Hi jagracer
well the misses now has 2 black eyes and the mother in law has a broken leg and all that in a day lol
Right finally got it running, how, i do not know, but knocking is still there and am pretty sure its the camshalf, but cant be 100% sure as i know very little about these engines and at this piont am at a complete loss now so i,ll have to re-think the hold project and jagracer am near kenley mate on the a22 just down the road from the m25 turn off for godstone, if you could help that would be great mate just drop me an email if you want and i have a chat, thanks for your help today at lease i got it running.

Cheers

Ralph

[ralph350i]

mrzigazaga said:

Seriously though mate...Two heads are better than one..(Ask Orthrus)..And the offer of someone else with good knowledge helping is even better..I admire your perseverance but sympathise with you, When my car was being a beach there were times when i wanted to burn it but i was making progress even if it was slow..It seems that you are unfortunately going round in circles and acheiving very little..I think i would of taken out the engine by now and put in a viewed running V8 that would just hook up to existing ancillaries..THEN...strip down the original and see WTF is going on, At least you can enjoy the car for a while..I persevered with mine as i didnt have a great deal of choice when it come to ditching the engine for a replacement..I struggled to find a decent cossie and finding a good cologne wasnt easy either, Fitting a ford 302 would of been awesome but i havent got 10K to spend on an engine and gearbox!!..Chassis was a limiting factor as well..But you have the choice of a good few RV8s out there that are relatively cheap and dont need a gearbox...I really hope it is a simple fix but by the look of it its turning out to be more trouble than anticipated..You need a break mate not a break down..And i dont mean the car!!...Everything crossed for you mate..Ziga

Edited by mrzigazaga on Sunday 15th April 18:37

Hi Zig
Am having a breakdown already mate lol its driving me mad going over the same old s***t and not getting anywhere, thanks for all your support mate, you have been a great help, but at this piont i need to re-think what i am gonna do.

cheers

Ralph

[ralph350i]

al 350i said:

its not much help ralph but i've got same problem and i've been going around in circles too! i can get mine to run but badly with same symptoms as yours, moisture from exhaust (not fuel) and dry black sooty plugs and i have to turn the distributor about 30 degrees anti clockwise to get it to start!! i've got the timing on no.1 firing, took off rocker cover and had second man check valves were shut and piston was at its highest point as i rotated the crank and just to be sure i have tried it 180 degrees the other way but after turning over a couple of times it tried back blowing the plenum chamber off!! i'm convinced its something stupid that i've overlooked but its just pissing me off now!!

Al
I really feel for you mate and know what your going though and its not nice, i done away with the efi as you know and the carb is giving me the same issues, it must be a timing thing, but for the life of me i cant work it out and have now got the camshalf knocking really badly, sorry mate, if i could help i would be around in a shot and if i find the issue i,ll defo drop you an email mate

cheers and good luck

Ralph

[ralph350i]

ralph350i said:

Al
I really feel for you mate and know what your going though and its not nice, i done away with the efi as you know and the carb is giving me the same issues, it must be a timing thing, but for the life of me i cant work it out and have now got the camshalf knocking really badly, sorry mate, if i could help i would be around in a shot and if i find the issue i,ll defo drop you an email mate

Ps Al it cant be the injection system mate, as mine dont have it, so i would be looking at the ignition set up, hope that helps

cheers and good luck

Ralph

[ralph350i]

al 350i said:

i just changed the distributor and coil for new one as some how the old one had moved and was trying to spark between the points on cap, when i lined the rotor up with the plug on cap the cog on coil pick up underneath the rotor wasn't lining up! but i'm guessing you've already checked you've got a good spark.

i'm starting to think may be i've got low compression, could someone tell me is there a set way to check this and what sort of values am i looking for

Hi Al
The strange thing i have with the car, is that it will run ok on champion plugs ( longer tip), but not NGK ( shorter tip) so i beleive it could be a dizzy issues not giving a good spark, have checked and looks ok???, i found this site this morning mate it may help mate

http://www.vord.net/cars/mgb_mods/engine/engine-tr...

cheers

Ralph

[ralph350i]

al 350i said:

made for an interesting read, my leads are run of the mill landrover jobbies, my distributor is new and spark is good but i know what he means about plugs my engine can ruin a set in 10 mins!!!!!

Hi Al
Could it be that simple??? his car sounds just like yours and mine and am pretty sure the last owner put new leads on my car, quick question mate, do you know what the output at the plug end of the leads should be as this would confirm both dizzy and plug leads are putting the correct voltage out?? worth a try mate

Ps have you unplugged the coolant temp sensor and put a 200ohm resistor in as when mine had the efi it cured the rich running, if you need a resistor just give me a shout i have a few somewhere mate, long shot but you never know

I,ll keep on looking mate and see what i can find

Cheers

Ralph

Edited by ralph350i on Tuesday 17th April 08:06

[ralph350i]

mrzigazaga said:

Ralph..YHM..Ziga

Hi Zig
how do i veiw this online??? he saids with great embarrissment, sorry but they normally come though to my phone

Cheers

Ralph

[ralph350i]

mrzigazaga said:

Hi Ralph..Can you create a hotmail email address..They are free..I have some documentation to send to you and ideally it needs viewing on a PC..Cheers..Ziga

Hi zig
if you pm me it will come to my phone mate & pc or id you need an email address mate its [e-mail], i will set up an hotmail acouunt today just incase.

cheers

[ralph350i]

al 350i]alph350i said:

Hi Al
Could it be that simple??? his car sounds just like yours and mine and am pretty sure the last owner put new leads on my car, quick question mate, do you know what the output at the plug end of the leads should be as this would confirm both dizzy and plug leads are putting the correct voltage out?? worth a try mate

Ps have you unplugged the coolant temp sensor and put a 200ohm resistor in as when mine had the efi it cured the rich running, if you need a resistor just give me a shout i have a few somewhere mate, long shot but you never know

I,ll keep on looking mate and see what i can find

Cheers

Ralph

not sure how i'd measure output at plug end? would the voltage not blow my meter up!!

coolant sensor is new but the only way to get the car to fire up now is by unplugging the thermotime plug and putting it on the coolant temp and shorting out the temp sensor plug, i've also checked the continuity of wiring as i understand this is an important earth for ecu.

on a lighter note i took simboy's advice and moved onto working on a little corsa, removing the 2 front wheels without undoing the wheel nuts!!! (locking bolt key and key code lost by previous owner), vauxhall wanted £90 sod that, used the hot spanner!!!! (oxy acetylene) and they were off in 2 mins. she was also running a little rough......easy plug in diagnostic tool and hey presto problem identified........you've got to love modern cars lol.

Al
Here you go mate a how to check your plug leads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYu4t-3TpG0

Cheers

Ralph

[ralph350i]

al 350i said:

i've made it worse yipeee!!!

well during the week i thought i'd update the earths as the old ones were looking a little tired, so did alternator bracket to coil bracket, AFM bracket to chassis and main battery cable to block, i also fitted new relay and diode to headlamps so now they work (although one squeals like a piggy).

so now i have no spark again, the best i can get is by laying the cable from coil to dizzy cap (king lead) on block and when i turn ignition on i get 1 spark, but nothing while i crank the engine over, just only when i turn ignition off/on!
i measured volts at coil and +ve (12.3volts) and -ve (12volts), when cranking -ve drops to 10volts, the way i understand it is that -ve shorts to earth to generate high voltage inside coil, should i be seeing a lower volt reading on -ve?

has anyone got any clue to what i've screwed up now???? it must be all there because it'll spark when you turn it on but what is breakdown when i crank it over?

Morning Al
Mine did the same thing after continuely trying to start the engine, coil was completely dead, i proceed to check everthing with a volt meter and ended up disconnecting the ecu and re-connecting and problem fixed, 12v back and car starting, strange, my take on this is your ecu has dry joins mate, if you can get it started, hit the ecu with a screw diver handle mate, mine run alot better for short periods, sounds mad, but it did make a difference, i also found that the ecu plug did not stay put, put a cable tie to hold in place.
You can understand now why i ripped the lot out mate it drove me mad, if you need an ecu mate to play with give me a shout
Good luck

Ralph