Smash's 390SE work so far
Discussion
Thought I'd give a quick update on the limited progress so far:
Compression test all good with less than 10psi difference between pots.
Distributor all good and static and dynamic timing all good with vacuum advance all working fine.
HT leads all good with decent spark, in the right order, on each one.
Rocker covers are off and rocker shaft, valves, push rods etc all in perfect condition with no noticeable wear. There is evidence of two new valves, one each in cylinders 2 and 4.
Next step is to double check all the sensors and then check the wiring from sensor back to ECU.
There was a little bit of light metallic residue/dust in the oil sat in the rocker covers. Not sure where this is from or how long it's been sat there? Oil pressure is good and no obvious mechanical issues. I'm wondering if it's related to the new valves that have been installed at some point in the not-too-distant past?
A couple of points of note - the engine has been fitted with a timing test point for a plug in analyser. There is a five pin multiplug connection under the screw on cap. Has anyone ever seen one of these on a Wedge before?
Other point of note is the fuel regulator - it's not a standard one and not a FSE style one. Does anyone know the make?
Compression test all good with less than 10psi difference between pots.
Distributor all good and static and dynamic timing all good with vacuum advance all working fine.
HT leads all good with decent spark, in the right order, on each one.
Rocker covers are off and rocker shaft, valves, push rods etc all in perfect condition with no noticeable wear. There is evidence of two new valves, one each in cylinders 2 and 4.
Next step is to double check all the sensors and then check the wiring from sensor back to ECU.
There was a little bit of light metallic residue/dust in the oil sat in the rocker covers. Not sure where this is from or how long it's been sat there? Oil pressure is good and no obvious mechanical issues. I'm wondering if it's related to the new valves that have been installed at some point in the not-too-distant past?
A couple of points of note - the engine has been fitted with a timing test point for a plug in analyser. There is a five pin multiplug connection under the screw on cap. Has anyone ever seen one of these on a Wedge before?
Other point of note is the fuel regulator - it's not a standard one and not a FSE style one. Does anyone know the make?
Edited by KKson on Wednesday 26th August 22:26
Edited by KKson on Wednesday 26th August 22:26
Wedg1e said:
When you say 'evidence of new valves', do you mean it has new valves, or have you taken fingerprints and blood samples..? 
14 old, tarnished and dirty valves and caps and two very clean shiny and new looking units.Ian - is your 390SE running the original ECU? If so what fuel pressure are you running at? I've spoken to Mark Adams and he says with the original ECU he would run fuel pressure at 48psi which is contrary (higher) to what I've heard. What he says is when he remaps them he adjusts the injectors opening times so the fuel pressure can be dropped back down and the injectors stay open longer to give the required fuel flow. I'd be interested to know what yours is running.
Thanks.
Thanks Scott. I did see the Mr Injector paperwork so thanks for that. I'm 90% certain it is ECU/AFM related but I'd rather the garage plod through all the usual stuff one step at a time so we've eliminated everything before we get there.
Starter was sticking a bit so got a new one today from TVR Parts. I'll fettle the old one with a new solenoid at a later date so I've got a spare for the two Wedges. Also ordered up a new K&N air filter for good measure.
I did actually systematically go through every old thread regarding the issues and advice given so the garage could see the full history of correspondence. I copied them all into one Word document and it came to 54 pages!
Cheers.
Starter was sticking a bit so got a new one today from TVR Parts. I'll fettle the old one with a new solenoid at a later date so I've got a spare for the two Wedges. Also ordered up a new K&N air filter for good measure.
I did actually systematically go through every old thread regarding the issues and advice given so the garage could see the full history of correspondence. I copied them all into one Word document and it came to 54 pages!
Cheers.
Edited by KKson on Thursday 27th August 18:25
Number 7 said:
As Ian says, the diagnostic port was a common fitment on the RV8 - I had one on my old 350i - never used it though. Out of interest, does the engine have double valve springs, and any idea what cam it's running?
Well rocker shafts are still off so not able to run, plus starter was playing up so bought a new one from TVR Parts - £133 including VAT and club discount which I thought was pretty good. Service was excellent by the way, with overnight delivery.Valve springs are double. I wasn't going to pull the cam out at this stage - if I can get it running without stripping the engine then that would be good for now.
Thanks all for responses. Garage today is fitting the new starter and cranking it over to ensure the valves are all behaving. Then it's on to the sensors and wiring. I've downloaded all I can find on setting up the AFM and my technician/mechanic says he's comfortable with checking/setting it up. He has all the analyser equipment needed. It's only if it's the ECU that external help will be needed. Cheers.
celcius said:
Hi keith
Any news
Greg
No, getting very p'd off now. Deal with technician/mechanic mate was that TVR was a filler in job and not urgent, however since they've had the car ( 4 weeks now) they've only spent 2 hours on it. The plan was for 2 full days work on it last Thursday and Friday but a load of work came in so no work on the Wedge.Any news
Greg
Supposedly they were going to have a day on it yesterday but they've not rung so honestly don't know if they did put some hours in. I will chase them again tomorrow. Just want to drive the bloody thing!
Right an update - new starter motor fitted so it spins over well. Garage has checked all valve operation and the number 1 cylinder exhaust valve is not opening, but all others are all good. I've spoken to Smash and he did previously check the exhaust manifold temperature with a laser temperature gauge and at that stage supposedly all exhaust manifold branches were showing a consistent temperature which indicates that number 1 was firing. It might be as a result of sitting around and the tappet isn't pumping up. The investigation continues.........
Blimey, what a mess! As Smash pretty much replaced everything else on the engine there's not much left that's original. Garage is going to get the engine up to temperature and then see if the valve is still not opening. We will take it from there. Glen hope the Chimp is going well. Cheers.
gmw9666 said:
all good....turns out the big issue with the previous owner not being able to start the car was having the fuel and return pipes on the rail the wrong way round.......classic error but a very cheap fix :-)
just got to sort of set of wheels out then its mot time
Will it be sorted by the 26th? Neil Garner open day?just got to sort of set of wheels out then its mot time
Right we're getting somewhere. After finding No 1 exhaust wasn't opening, the garage put everything back together and ran the engine up to temperature and then checked all of the exhaust outlet pipes temperatures. The front cylinders were all around 220 C with the back cylinders nearer 300C. With HT leads disconnected to the cylinders there was no noticeable difference in exhaust temperature. The manifold is tubular but the pipes are all inter-linked so heat is conducting through the manifold overall.
Next they took the HT lead off each cylinder in turn. When they took off No 1 there was no change to the misfire. When they took nos 2 to 8 off the engine ran even worse.
They then took the complete inlet off, exposing the camshaft and rotated the engine by hand to inspect the cam and each lobe and guess what - there is no lobe whatsoever present for No 1 exhaust valve - it is absolutely round with no sign that a lobe ever existed! This could well be the issue with continual misfire and the engine unwilling to rev. The cam is therefore coming out tomorrow and a new one and followers is needed.
The big question is what cam? As posted on the "cam thread" the engine is a John Eales unit with big valve heads and double valve springs. According to John Eales it would have had his JE101 camshaft originally which is a mild cam. I belive the Andy Rouse engines had the wilder H234 camshaft. John recommends a straight replacement with the mild JE101 (now known as the JDE2665) however this will only (?) give 245bhp if everything else is healthy. Dom at TVR Power recommends his 218 camshaft. I've heard good things about Realsteel's Cyclone and Typhoon and also V8 Developments "Stealth" camshaft. Ideally I want to get one ordered up tomorrow but I also one that will go straight in without any further machining. Anyone had issues or can recommend a suitbale slightly wild cam?
Cheers Keith
Next they took the HT lead off each cylinder in turn. When they took off No 1 there was no change to the misfire. When they took nos 2 to 8 off the engine ran even worse.
They then took the complete inlet off, exposing the camshaft and rotated the engine by hand to inspect the cam and each lobe and guess what - there is no lobe whatsoever present for No 1 exhaust valve - it is absolutely round with no sign that a lobe ever existed! This could well be the issue with continual misfire and the engine unwilling to rev. The cam is therefore coming out tomorrow and a new one and followers is needed.
The big question is what cam? As posted on the "cam thread" the engine is a John Eales unit with big valve heads and double valve springs. According to John Eales it would have had his JE101 camshaft originally which is a mild cam. I belive the Andy Rouse engines had the wilder H234 camshaft. John recommends a straight replacement with the mild JE101 (now known as the JDE2665) however this will only (?) give 245bhp if everything else is healthy. Dom at TVR Power recommends his 218 camshaft. I've heard good things about Realsteel's Cyclone and Typhoon and also V8 Developments "Stealth" camshaft. Ideally I want to get one ordered up tomorrow but I also one that will go straight in without any further machining. Anyone had issues or can recommend a suitbale slightly wild cam?
Cheers Keith
adam quantrill said:
Christ is that garage being paid by the minute? After finding No 1 exhaust valve isn't opening a boroscope down the valley and you'll see no cam lobe.
No need to run up to temperature you can do all this diagnosis on the starter motor with the rocker covers off.
I hope they don't pull off the heads it isn't needed. Engine can stay in situ as well.
Should take a garage about 3 hours to change the cam and followers. Make sure they change the followers.
Special "mates rates" on the labour charge - ask no questions...No need to run up to temperature you can do all this diagnosis on the starter motor with the rocker covers off.
I hope they don't pull off the heads it isn't needed. Engine can stay in situ as well.
Should take a garage about 3 hours to change the cam and followers. Make sure they change the followers.
They did find the fault with the valve not opening "on the starter" and rocker cover off but I spoke to Smash and he said he'd tested each individual exhaust port with a laser temperature gauge and all was good so I asked the garage to bolt it back together and repeat the test to see what results we got. The test didn't show a lower temperature on No 1 despite the exhaust valve not opening. Others should bear this in mind if they try that test.
Heads are staying in place and yes new camshaft, new followers and also new timing gear and chain will be fitted.
But what camshaft???????????? V8 Developments Stealth kit sounds good to me:
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/camshafts...
Edited by KKson on Thursday 17th September 21:27
Bobby Shaftoe said:
Sounds like you've got a similar spec to me with the big valve heads and whatnot. I've never tried the stealth but i've got the numbers and it looks very similar to the kent H214, just on a slightly tighter lsa.
I made around about 250hp ish on the h214, tis a fairly decent cam but if you want more power wise i'd heartily recommend the Crower 50233, comes on cam at around 3250rpm, peak torque at around 4500 and carrys on pulling past 6500. idle is slightly lopey at 900 ish. Other good ones in this performance band are the Real Steel Typhoon, Real Steel Tornado and Kent H224. Note you will need piston cutouts for all these cams.
The next step up is the 234 cams; Real Steel RS234, Crower 50234, Kent H234 and the Kelford 190-F, these are the wildest Hydraulic cams available and may be a step too far in getting them to behave on a clockwork dizzy and lucas injection.
Thanks for the reply - according to the books the 390 JE engine should have the Cosworth pistons but I've not removed the heads to find out. I'll ask the garage to check tomorrow to see if the pistons fitted do have cut outs or not, assuming they have a suitable borascope. I've not heard anything bad re the Stealth cam and it's not too radical so I'm going to give them a call in the morning and talk it through with them. Might not get any sleep tonight - thinking of lift and overlap and cams.... I made around about 250hp ish on the h214, tis a fairly decent cam but if you want more power wise i'd heartily recommend the Crower 50233, comes on cam at around 3250rpm, peak torque at around 4500 and carrys on pulling past 6500. idle is slightly lopey at 900 ish. Other good ones in this performance band are the Real Steel Typhoon, Real Steel Tornado and Kent H224. Note you will need piston cutouts for all these cams.
The next step up is the 234 cams; Real Steel RS234, Crower 50234, Kent H234 and the Kelford 190-F, these are the wildest Hydraulic cams available and may be a step too far in getting them to behave on a clockwork dizzy and lucas injection.
Number 7 said:
Keith, have you got a copy of Des Hammill's book on the RV8? If not, I could scan the pages relating to camshafts for you. Let me know if needed.
Edited to add that if you're going for a cam that will allow revs to 6K and more, you really need high rev lifters (not the standard versions)
Hi, no I've not got a copy that book so a scan of the cam info would be great thanks. I seriously doubt that I'll ever rev beyond the 6000rpm limit, in fact 5500 is about as high as I ever go and 5000 is the usual self imposed limit. What I want is a camshaft that I can drop in that suits the John Eales head, double valve springs and hydraulic tappets. About to have a chat with V8 Developments. Cheers. Edited to add that if you're going for a cam that will allow revs to 6K and more, you really need high rev lifters (not the standard versions)
Edited by Number 7 on Friday 18th September 07:53
Hi all, been away the weekend at the caravan so catching up with stuff. I spent Thursday evening and Friday lunchtime looking at camshaft reviews. I spoke to Neil at ML Performance and he strongly recommended V8 Developments so gave them a ring and chatted to Rob. There's a dozen potential cams to use but I also want the car to be driveable rather than all out max power. I've therefore gone with a "Stealth" cam from V8D, plus new followers and double chain and new sprockets. Full kit with every gaskets etc was just on £500. Steep I know but I still think I got a bargain getting the 390SE for what I paid for it. Kit is due mid week plus I've ordered a new black silicon hose kit from ML Performance as the hoses were way past their best.
Here's hoping it's up and running some time the week after next...... I cant wait! The neighbours will be so pleased to see me with two bloody noisy Wedges!
Here's hoping it's up and running some time the week after next...... I cant wait! The neighbours will be so pleased to see me with two bloody noisy Wedges!
Hi, I did check this afternoon with V8 Developments and they only supply the composite gaskets. Re the head bolts their advice was also to just slacken the outer 4 head bolts a bit rather than completely removing them.
Silicon hoses due tomorrow, camshaft kit Wednesday - mechanic/technician might be able to sort it all out Saturday, but too late for Neil Garner open day.
Silicon hoses due tomorrow, camshaft kit Wednesday - mechanic/technician might be able to sort it all out Saturday, but too late for Neil Garner open day.
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