KOX972W - FHC+2

[TimLux]

Hello everybody.

I wondered if you guys had any information about this car? It's a black 1981 FHC +2.

So far, the only part of its history that I know is that it came over to Germany in 2005, and then sat in a barn... it's never been registered in Germany. Towards the end of last year, somebody spotted it, liked its "Lotus-like" looks and bought it. Then he realised it was heart over head and put it up for sale, and I came along and bought it (I'm still at the heart over head stage - I love the look of the FHCs and it's a nice contrast to the curvier Tuscan).

It's still at the place I bought it and I hope to bring it back here (Luxembourg, of all places) in the next couple of weeks, at which point I will take proper photos etc.

The state of the car is as follows:

• the interior is pretty good, though I think there may be some trim missing around the centre console as there are heater hoses all over the place (unless that's normal). The wood needs some TLC; the varnish has split off the wood (or veneer, I presume).
• the body-work, I think, is complete and in "reasonable" condition, with some crazed paint that I need to look better at when it arrives here. It's going to need a respray at some point.
• all the glass is fine
• all electrics seem to behave themselves, including lights and electric windows. The gauges are all "SW" and I think they're newer than the car?
• the engine starts and runs but the guy selling it says it misfires sometimes. Sounded fine to me and a friend.

And now the bad news:

• the outriggers and where they mount the front suspension are knackered
• there's chassis damage on one of the tubes in the middle of the boxy bit towards the diff
• all of the mechanics (suspension, brakes, exhaust) under the car are going to need to be stripped off and sorted; it was supposedly in a dry barn, but it's all pretty rusty
• it currently has no door mirrors, but there are some chromed mirrors in a box in the car. I assume they're not original.
• both doors have dropped... I hope that's usually an adjustment issue?

Oddities:

• the SW gauges mentioned above
• there are two rusted round metal "caps" on the passenger side of the top of the bonnet... with nothing on the other side (not even a screw/bolt/etc). Any idea what that might have been?

I intend to have a go at a body-off and send the chassis off to have it sorted as I lack welding skills (at the moment), and I want to keep the car as original as possible. Early days yet though.

Any information is much appreciated.


Incidentally, I got this one shortly after I "missed" a blue FHC - don't think it was a +2 - that was also sold in northern Germany. Does anybody know about that one? It was missing a radiator and I would be interested to know more about it. (I was told it was sold the day before I was to see it... but we'd already booked a hotel so spent a weekend near it in Bremen).

[TimLux]

wedgeman said:

Taken at the BBWF 2005

Image courtesy of Pie Man

Oh wow, that's fantastic, thank you so much. I hope it will look that good again soon.

It also answers another question I was going to ask about wheel originality: my wheels aren't original because it (currently) has the lattice wheels.

For the plate:
Engine: 1257-111
Chassis: FH5123FI2
Body code: 807

[TimLux]

Hi - unfortunately the horse was well bolted on the engine start-up before I arrived. The seller is a "master mechanic" so hopefully trod carefully. I could not ask because he spoke little English and I have zero German (his girlfriend did admirably at English but technical terms ... We failed to communicate a lot even with Google translate).

[TimLux]

General Zod said:

Close to the face, slow and loud in English would surely have worked?

Great car!!

I'll have a go at that tomorrow when I pick up the car. (And thanks for the kind comment.. it's not great yet but it will definitely get there). I will try and get the seller to put it back on a lift so I can take photos before I stick it on the back of the van to bring it here. Is there anything else I should take a proper look at while I'm under it?

In terms of a restoration, I'm not sure which order to do things in. This is only my second restoration project and my first - a TR7 - is still in many many pieces in the barn. I want to make sure the engine isn't dodgy before taking everything off the chassis, which means sorting out the fuel system. Should I assume that the whole lot is knackered and replace everything, or are there pieces that might be alright? Once the engine is definitely fine, I'll strip everything off the chassis and get it sorted while I re-condition the brakes/diff/suspension/etc.

[TimLux]

Hi guys.

Thanks for the comments, and apologies for the lack of updates. I'm still waiting for bits and pieces - including the wedge bible - to arrive, and to have the time to have a proper poke and a go at the engine.

Now I have some picture galleries for you to poke through at your leisure. (Regarding jack points... don't look!).

The car is, I think, complete; well, missing a spare 15x7J lattice wheel. There are a couple of bits that are non-original, though, including the driver side rear quarter glass. The tops of the doors have also been solidly rebuilt, which means at least somebody took care of the car... but the fit of the rebuild against the door aperture is "poor". Both the doors and the quarter panel are the kind of thing that will bug me, but I won't be going out of my way to pay to have that rebuilt unless somebody finds a good source for the parts.

Regarding the LHD lights, I think my plan for this car is to get it re-registered in the UK before I attempt to register it over here, so the RHD lights can stay for now.

Other comments:

• the detritus comes off the car to leave a reasonable paint-job underneath; it's hard work removing it even with cleaning products, but it comes off. The respray won't be needed short or medium term.
• I think it's had a fuel tank upgrade to an alloy tank

The questions:

• I presume rear quarter panels are like hens' teeth?
• has anybody got a spare 15x8J lattice wheel knocking about?
• I need a better cleaning product to remove the "dust" off the car (not sure what dust it is, as it looks very white when it gets together)
• anybody got a good idea on what's going on with the lumps in the bonnet?
• is the interior - other than the gauges - original? (or at least re-trimmed to match the original).
• I presume that the heater tubes are normally behind some sort of cover? Hens' teeth?

Your input is much appreciated.

[TimLux]

Hi all, thanks for the kind comments.

Jacking points, sorry, I know none of them were put in the right place, that's why I didn't want you guys to look (lost in translation when I picked it up... from now onwards I have no excuse). Thanks for the link Zig.

Gauges - mine have yellow SW labels on them - it was my assumption that they weren't original. If that's not the case then I'm happy.

Headlights - mine are RHD and, as far as I know, fine for UK use (the LHD comment was due to Pieter's comment about not being able to find LHD ones). I'll have a poke around for mini/LR LHD ones in case I need them later, thanks.

Paint dust - that would explain why it's a pain to scrape off. I'll have a go with clay bar tonight but I'd need a pretty big lump of clay to take it off the whole car. I was wondering if a rotary polisher might be the way to go (I think a friend has one I can borrow). I'll give the alcohol/petrol a go this weekend.

Interior - great, I'll go through it with some carpet cleaner too.

Sills - not sure if they're molded. Mine certainly have screws underneath, but I'll have a proper look tonight/tomorrow and see how the top part is fitted. I was hoping they'd come off relatively easily to give me a good look at the outriggers.

Spare wheel - just another thing that'll annoy me until I find one. (It's not that I want to use it, it's more that it should have one, if you know what I mean).

[TimLux]

mrzigazaga said:

Here you go mate...But i wheelie wouldn't hang about on it....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-350-WEDGE-ALLOY-WHEE...

Blimey two at the same time...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-350-WEDGE-ALLOY-WHEE...

With wheel centres as well...They are like hens teeth...

Thanks Zig. I can't see them here at work... do they have at least the rest of the day left on them?

[TimLux]

mrzigazaga said:

Hi mate...They both have a "Buy it now" so no auction...Cheers..Ziga

Perfect - got a friend in the UK to buy one of them for me (they visit often enough to chuck it in the back next time they visit instead of paying expensive shipping).

Tasmin200 said:

Looks like a great car you've found. It must be a really early one with the high above gearbox exhaust. Thanks for posting your photographs, they are a great source of reference of an original 2+2.

One of the reasons I did it is because when I looked around for photos before buying a car I found no useful interior shots at all; there were a few standard FHC but no plus two. I will take many more photos and upload them as I fix it up. If anybody wants a full quality one or a photo of something particular, please let me know.

[TimLux]

Hi all.

It turned out that the sills were rivetted on, so I drilled them out and had a poke at the outriggers. Pictures here.

I also took the paint off the rear screen - carefully! not to touch the paint - using acetone. Made a massive difference to the look of the car. Haven't had time to poke the paintwork with clay bar, alcohol or petrol yet; maybe tomorrow.

Addendum: please can somebody give me the lengths & diameters of the fuel pipes I will need to replace the whole lot? (I thought I saw a post here that had the list, but I can't find it; the filler is 51mm, but how long on each side?).

Edited by TimLux on Monday 8th February 20:42

[TimLux]

Tasmin200 said:

Lot's of first class info here:
http://www.wedgeneering.co.uk/TVR%20390SE%20p5.htm

Thanks.

The results of the "what cleans up the car best" competition are in, and the winner is... petrol. The clay bar does take it off, but it's still a slow process. A wipe with petrol and then a scrub/wipe off shortly after is a far more efficient way to go.

Petrol used on the left side, then left a piece, then a clar-barred strip on the right.

As you can see from the picture, it's made huge difference, so I'll be doing the rest of the car soon. I'll have to follow up with a proper polish some time.

[TimLux]

Hi all.

I have been poking the engine. It refused to idle so I started by looking at the idle control system. So far:

• the cold start valve and warm-up-regulator were getting 0 volts - I cut apart a supicious looking bundle in the wiring to find a bunch of dodgy connectors, which I cut out and replaced with soldered wiring and heat-shrink around it... to end up with +2 volts. Dug back through the connectors and one was so bad I took a file and then contact cleaner to it. 12v now... so it idles much better, but at ~2000 rpm.
• Cold start valve: clamping the hose while idling drops the engine speed significantly, so significantly in fact that it stalls. :/ I took it off, cleaned it with carb cleaner and it still doesn't move with temperature (poking it from inside with a screwdriver it moves pretty freely).

Questions for you kind people:

• any recommended (preferably relatively cheap) supplier for the valve?
• where is the cold start valve supposed to mount? Mine flops unsecured around at the front of the engine.
• same question for the fuel filter. There's a (very) small one inline right at the front near the metering head - the fuel in it looked fine. The fuel lines go straight down from the front of the metering head, along the chassis, and to the pump/accumulator... there's no other filter inline. I bought the one on the parts page before I knew I didn't have one ;(
• my fuel pump comes on with the ignition; I saw to clean the connector on the metering head, and that looks alright... but the fuel pump is still on?

[TimLux]

Hello Ziga,

sorry, I think I'm mixing my terminology somewhere. It's the AAD that's flopping all over the place (the bit that's knackered). I haven't yet had to poke the cold start injector, other than to spray its connector with contact spray; I haven't checked for any there voltage yet.

As for the fuel filter, the cupboard is bare - the fuel lines go down the front and along instead of along then down... and in fact a few other things are in different places to yours, it seems.



A friend is going to lend me a different type of AAD for me to try for a while to see if I can work out any other kinks. Thanks for the AAD offer - if you don't need it as a spare then chuck me a message and let me know what you're after for it.

[TimLux]

mrzigazaga said:

Hi Tim...If you look on the first pic i posted up you will just about see the AAD...Just to the left of the power steering pump red lid...It should bolt onto the plate that is on the front of the plenum as this aids the heating up of the unit...As said if you need mine you are welcome to have it..A small donation to the BBWF fund is sufficient....Cheers...Ziga

Hi Ziga - thanks again for the offer, which I'll gladly take you up on if the below makes sense . I'll contact you via PM later.

For now though, I'm hoping you can help with a bit of a mystery. I mentioned that a friend might be able to lend me one, and it turns out that it's exactly the same part reference as mine. And cold... it's closed, just like mine. So I went looking around, part number "0280 140 516" and found quotes like this:

Bosch 0280 140 516
•Shape: inlet at 90 deg to outlet, cast body
•Length: 124 mm
•Position unpowered: closed, spring loaded
•Connections: two pins. Will open when applying dc, nice linear response in the range 1 to 9V, 1A at 9V (open)

So it starts off closed and powering it will open it. That sounds rather backwards because squeezing the pipe - i.e. blocking the airflow - drops the idle to a sensible level, so surely I want one that starts open to get more fuel through when it's cold, and then closes with heat when the extra fuel isn't required... at this point I assume it's either the wrong part or something else that I'm missing is going to cut off the voltage to the valve (and the WUR) when something else is "hot enough". Confused. Help?! :S

[TimLux]

Hello Ziga.

Thanks, that image confirms my suspicion: mine has the wrong part installed.

I'll PM you tonight to take you up on the offer.

[TimLux]

Next photo album here. A friend lent me a Jag AAD as it's closer to what I need than the one that was on my car. After cleaning the dizzy, because spark testers showed it wasn't getting sparks in the right place at the right time either, it now idles nicely and at a proper speed! It also revs when I hit the throttle rather than dying like it used to.

The new problem is that after I rev it, when the revs come back down it stalls... and won't idle after that without throttle applied either. Harrumph.

[TimLux]

mrzigazaga said:

Was the AAD any good as I'm still looking for mine...Couldn't get to the garage today...Cheers...Ziga

Hi Ziga. I think the Jag one is quite similar to the original, just with a different mount and the connector in a different place, so it's still flopping about in the engine bay like the wrong-un was. It seems to work as expected, though. There are a couple of likely-looking Ford AADs up on a certain auction site so I'll start there.

[TimLux]

Hello Ziga.

The ones on ebay are ~£20 a shot, and for a Ford Capri. I have no part number to look for, so I'm taking a punt. Typically the buy-it-now only appeared after I had somebody place a (thankfully low) bid on the non-buy-it-now one. And I agree - the Jag one I have borrowed should suffice for now to get other things moving along. Speaking of which, I noticed when uploading photos that the fuel accumulator on mine has been bypassed... do you have a part number for a replacement, or can I just leave it bypassed?

Hello GinG15,

that's very likely my car, which was taken to Germany in 2005, particularly if it was in the vicinity of Hannover. If you're still in contact with your friend, then please could you ask him if he has any copies of paperwork for the car? I have the V5 and a "pre-TUV" inspection sheet but nothing else. If he knows where the original wheels got to then that would also be interesting...

[TimLux]

GinG15 said:

@tim...sent you a private message with the mail adress of my mate.

Hi GinG, message received, thanks, will send a mail tomorrow.

Hello Ziga,

I contacted KMI, and they could sell me a new AAD, injectors, and an accumulator, and, of course, refurbish the WUR and metering head.

My current plan is to try your adjustments on the metering head; if it still misbehaves, I'll buy the accumulator and have the WUR and metering head refurbished, but try the £20 Capri AAD for now to keep the cost down. I'll poke the injectors only if required once the rest is sorted. I'll also replace the fuel lines and hook up the standard fuel filter while I'm at it...