Hot or What!

[John042]

Hi All. "Wesley is fast approaching his MOT after 14 years rest. Unfortunately the first glitch being; getting rather warm, 120 degrees and boiling in the expansion tank. So I fitted a electric rad fan. It helps but static running in my workshop still sees the temperature creeping up. I would have thought a 16" fan would control the temp a bit? Which makes me think have I got the cooling system pipe work right. Andy from NZ gave me a rough diagram. The two connections I'm not sure about are the small pipe from the front of the thermostat housing, presently connected to the heater/expansion tank and the rear thermostat small connection pipe presently connected to the top of the heads via a preformed pipe. Does this sound right please?
The other problem is warm starting. Cold start no problem, hot starting OK. Leave the vehicle for 20 minutes and it refuses to start. I checked the aux air valve, (the one connected to the throttle housing), the plate inside seems free and there's resistance across the connects. The pumps running whilst cranking and if I leave the vehicle for a longer period it starts fine. Thoughts please? Incidentally where's the thermo switch? I understand this controls starting etc. I have also slaved in a replacement ignition coil in case that was breaking down.Thanks for any pointers. Cheers J C.

[John042]

Hi again Zig. Sorry, it was you that kindly sent the coolant pipe layout. Yep I've got a new blanking rad'cap and the expansion cap is rated at 15psi ex Ford Festa expansion tank. Could that be the problem? What temperatures do the V6i's normally run at static? From your post I think, reference the starting problem, you're suggesting by-passing the fuel pump accumulator Zig? Funny enough that's one item that wasn't replaced during refurbishment. So tomorrow I will pull the accumulator vent pipe off and if there's fuel present I guess the diaphragm has failed? Thanks Zig. J C.

[John042]

Thanks Zig. Mines running about 120 degrees if I let it get that far. It has a viscous fan fitted and now because of the problem a 16" electric fan as well with a adjustable thermostat set at 80 degrees. The rad is a newly refurbished with a new core. The thermostat I checked in hot water before fitting, hopefully the right way round, working parts into the housing? I have another cap for the expansion tank so will try that. Is it perhaps that it's running in a confined space, ie workshop? However I would have thought the electric fan would have brought the temperature to heel? The engine has been rebuilt so the waterways were all flushed out. Just been looking at the prices of fuel accumulators. Have they got gold inside them? Strange this cooling system with the thermostat in the bottom hose? More investigation need I think. Cheers Zig.

[John042]

I'm sorry Zig but I've got to ask, why Delilah? Anyway initially I did set the electric fan thermostat at 90 degrees. Not much change, the temp kept climbing. Good point about the rad overflow pipe another area for investigation. Flow check into the tank another area, plus the temp of the bottom rad hose to the expansion tank to verify the 'Stat openning. Cheers J C

[John042]

Thanks chaps. The first thing I'm going to do is check the flow from the bottom hose and reverse the heater pipes. Often thought why the right hand pipe went across the rear of the engine to join onto the T piece? Whether this will make a difference,?? The thermostat problem should hopefull be revealed by checking the temp' on start up and running. Cheers all. John C.

[John042]

Thanks Andy/Zig for the thoughts. Today, household chores permitting I will swap the heater hoses over and check the flow from the bottom hose, plus the fuel accumulator vent pipe for any fuel bypass. Incidentally I've got a niggling doubt about the thermostat. What is the correct way? At the moment I'm sure it was fitted with the wax capsule facing rearwards, into the timing cover housing?? Should it be facing the other way into the flow from the bottom of radiator? Cheers J C.

[John042]

Good Morning Zig. Just escaped for a quick "Wesley" Ran it him up and sure enough top of the rad hot 90+ degrees and the bottom of rad and hose are cold. So either the thermostat is in the wrong way,ie spring etc facing the rear or it's failed shut. Either way there's no flow through the rad. Checked the fuel accumulator vent pipe whilst running and static, no evidence of fuel from that side of the diaphragm. Servicable? Where's the thermo switch for the fuel system please? Is it part of unit mounted on the front of the engine with pipes from the fuel distributor? Many thanks Zig I'm sure when I take the thermostat out it will be facing the wrong way but at least it will confirm the overheating I hope. Cheers John C.

[John042]

Thanks Zig. Can you confirm that the correct way the thermostat fits is with the working parts (Wax capsule/spring etc) facing the radiator please? It makes sense that the fuel accumulator might be the problem on warm starts although it's not leaking across the diaphragm. By by-passing it will confirm one way or another. I don't seem to have a plug on my fuel distributor? Off to drain "Wesley's" waters. Cheers J C.

[John042]

That didn't take long. I've posted a couple of pics' on the position of the thermostat Zig. Yes, as picture 1 shows it came out with the 'working parts' facing the rear into the timing cover casing. So not subject to rad temp? However, pic'2 shows that this thermostat would not fit the other way round, into the thermostat housing. So what have I got? The wrong size thermostat or the wrong housing? Don't you love them? How did you manage to connect the pump output pipe banjo to the fuel feed from the accumulator Zig? Cheers J C.

[John042]

Think you've just answered my question Zig. Can we have a quick chat if you pm me your number please? J C

[John042]

Thanks Zig. My unit is way to big to fit the other way round, into the front housing. So off to my parts man tomorrow. Cheers J C.

[John042]

Thanks Zig. My unit is way to big to fit the other way round, into the front housing. So off to my parts man tomorrow. Cheers J C.

[John042]

Thanks Andy. Things are becoming clearer with your and Zig's help. The thermostat does sit inside the timing case, facing rearwards so that the wax capsule is subjected to coolant temperature from the engine block via the 'T' piece connection (Heater, Expansion Tank). I've checked the removed thermostat, stamped 88 degrees. It didn't start openning until the water was boiling ie 100 degrees centigrade. So not surprising that it stop any flow from the bottom of the rad. New one on order. Talking to a few guys that use the V6i engine in kit cars and they either remove the thermostat or drill holes into the sealing plate. Due to the unreliability of the units. Cheers John C.

[John042]

Yep, confirmed now from various sources. Tickover are out of stock but suggested the Capri Club. I've got on on order, 82 degrees. However will drill a hole in it for air locks etc as from the price it will be a steel one. Cheers J C.

[John042]

Thanks Zig/Andy. I remember fitting thermostats over the years and you're right some had a little lose rivet in a hole to prevent air cavities? I've just received the thermostat marked 82 degrees. Judging from the cost, £10, and the make "Moto" it may be worth drilling a hole?? Anyway, more importantly, where's a source for a fuel accumulator? Most seem to be priced £110-£140? Or is that the going rate? Cheers all. J C.

[John042]

Thanks Zig. I've just sent KMI an e-mail. Strange that I've no plug on the fuel distributor? Further investigation, and as you suggest by-passing the accumulator. Fortunately I have a tame guru at a Specialist Car garage Porkies 924/928's etc. Might be worth a chat before I leap in and replace the accumulator, but he keeps on trying to sell me a Porsche! Cheers J C.

[John042]

Thanks Andy, that explains the lack of a plug and the fitting of the timed relay. The lack of an accumulator in the system is an interesting point. Would the pump on cranking replace the pressure depleted on start up? Without an accumulator? John C.

[John042]

Thanks Zig/Andy. Been talking to my Injection Guru. He immediately said Accumulator and a way of checking was to replace the fuel pump relay so the pump runs when the ignition is turned on? All points to check and try. Cheers J C.

[John042]

Thanks Zig. I think his idea was that by the pump running as soon as the ignition is on, the fuel system is immediately pressurised? Thereby any fuel cavitation on warm/hot starting is negated? So a few more "Fiddles" this weekend. J C.

[John042]

Thanks Toby. I've already been in contact with Steve at KMI. Going rate is £151. There are cheaper ones from Latvia Some with a vent pipe at the rear others without? Cheers J C.