Bang, Clatter but nothing obvious
Discussion
Hi chaps,
Out for a run in the Griff this morning and very near home I pulled away from lights to hear a bang and a lot of clattering.
I took it gently for the last mile to home but it was clattering like buggery under load and it sounds like its from the back end.
The engine is running OK.
The exhaust is off and the back wheels in the air but I can't find anything wrong with the prop or the drive shafts by just pulling and turning them.
After lunch I'll try starting it and make sure there are no noises out of gear, then drop it into gear and see what I can hear.
Any ideas?
Thanks
IanB
Out for a run in the Griff this morning and very near home I pulled away from lights to hear a bang and a lot of clattering.
I took it gently for the last mile to home but it was clattering like buggery under load and it sounds like its from the back end.
The engine is running OK.
The exhaust is off and the back wheels in the air but I can't find anything wrong with the prop or the drive shafts by just pulling and turning them.
After lunch I'll try starting it and make sure there are no noises out of gear, then drop it into gear and see what I can hear.
Any ideas?
Thanks
IanB
Thanks for the fast replies guys. I expected everyone to be out and about in the sun 
Well the good news is there is nothing in the diff oil.
It was a hard pull away - trying to keep up with my mate in his Chimaera who suddenly seemed to have his driving head on.
There is nothing obvious with the car on stands and turning the wheels.
We've also checked the brake calipers are still properly attached - a good call by my mate that one but unfortunately not the problem.
How do I check the CV's ?
What I was going to do next was fill the diff and take it for a run with a mate in the car so he can try to find the source while I concentrate on not driving into something.
So that gives you an hour to come up with ideas for us.
Thanks again guys. Its nice to know we have each others backs covered.
Well the good news is there is nothing in the diff oil.
It was a hard pull away - trying to keep up with my mate in his Chimaera who suddenly seemed to have his driving head on.
There is nothing obvious with the car on stands and turning the wheels.
We've also checked the brake calipers are still properly attached - a good call by my mate that one but unfortunately not the problem.
How do I check the CV's ?
What I was going to do next was fill the diff and take it for a run with a mate in the car so he can try to find the source while I concentrate on not driving into something.
So that gives you an hour to come up with ideas for us.
Thanks again guys. Its nice to know we have each others backs covered.
Ha ha.
You clanger
I'm not that thick!
Actually, here is a thought.
Throughout the drive I had a horrible vibration through the car. Again, I thought this was from the back end(ish) but I put it down to the exhaust touching the chassis somewhere because I'd just had the exhaust off.
Was this a symptom too and nothing to do with the exhaust I wonder.
You clanger
I'm not that thick!Actually, here is a thought.
Throughout the drive I had a horrible vibration through the car. Again, I thought this was from the back end(ish) but I put it down to the exhaust touching the chassis somewhere because I'd just had the exhaust off.
Was this a symptom too and nothing to do with the exhaust I wonder.
Simon says said:
Ok then how about loose exhaust silencer mounting plate 
Nope.I'd been using these bolts to play with when I wanted to test my 'new' Mac Tools air ratchet
So they were all tight and were still tight when I took them off to drop the exhaust.
I can't get diff oil now, so taking it for a run is out.
So, taking on-board what Ant says, I'm going to trot down and have a look at the CV gaiters and make sure the drive shaft bolts are all still present and correct.
Back in a bit with an update...
5.0ltr said:
Initial thought was rear spring snapping off part of the coil, did the noise continue after the `bang?`
Yes it did and it sounded like I was dragging half a dozen old metal tins behind me.Update after the latest rolling around underneath session:
Both sides the CV gaiters are intact. The outsides are also dry with no evidence of anything leaking. All bolt heads are present and correct.
Back wheels are now off (yes, they were still tight Simon
) and I still can't see anything wrong.Turning the wheels isn't producing any strange noises but its nice to see my LSD is still working
The springs and shocks look intact and OK, as do the wishbone bolts.
There is one odd thing, but it might be a red herring.
The front end of the prop has a shiny bit on it, but it looks to me like someone in the past has had hold of it with pipe grips because I can what I think are teeth marks.
There are no marks of any kind on top of the silencer, so I don't think anything has come off.
The prop UJ's feel OK, maybe a teeny tiny bit of movement on one angle of the rear joint. But thats just me being picky.
The diff brackets top and bottom look OK and all the bolts are still there.
There are no shiny witness marks anywhere underneath.
I've got the diff filler out ready for new oil but I don't know what else I can do until I road test it.
Oh, and I found the lump of grease which fell off and narrowly missed my head. It was on the headrest of my creeper - all nicely smeared around by my head
Oh yes. I forgot.
The other check I did on the drive shafts was to pull/push in and out - and there is movement but no grinding or odd noises.
And I tried to push them up/down but they are nice and tight.
Currently the car is on stands so the wheels are hanging. In case it makes any difference.
Next step - diff oil and road test I think, but I'll happily check for anything anyone suggests.
You know when you start to wonder if you really did hear something ?
No, I certainly did. And you could hear it very obviously when I went under the bridge coming home.
The other check I did on the drive shafts was to pull/push in and out - and there is movement but no grinding or odd noises.
And I tried to push them up/down but they are nice and tight.
Currently the car is on stands so the wheels are hanging. In case it makes any difference.
Next step - diff oil and road test I think, but I'll happily check for anything anyone suggests.
You know when you start to wonder if you really did hear something ?
No, I certainly did. And you could hear it very obviously when I went under the bridge coming home.
An update chaps, though sadly still no resolution.
I couldn't find anything wrong after inspecting/pulling/pushing/turning everything I could see or get my hands to under the car.
So with the back wheels off and the car on axle stands I started it up. In both neutral and throughout the gear range. I drove it through every gear, to approx 3000rpm and an indicated 40mph in 5th gear. And did this test a couple of times with the engine off between the 'runs'
There was nothing. Not a squeak - other than from my bum! Being sat 3ft in the air in my garage with an indicated 40mph is a bit cheek clenching!
In fact it sounded better than ever because I've probably refitted the exhaust better.
I've now road tested it and the noise was evident before we even got off the drive.
So here is what we found
The noise is only there under load but it is obvious as soon as I start to move.
It disappears when freewheeling both with the clutch depressed and the car in gear or with the car in neutral.
The noise is NOT evident when the car is travelling in reverse at up to approx 10-15mph
The noise DOES NOT change if the car is driven around left or right corners.
The noise has a definite rhythmn.
It isn't a metallic rattle as I said earlier, it is a thump thump.
It sounds a bit like a chug chug as if the exhaust is blowing. BUT ITS NOT THE EXHAUST.
It sounds like an old steam road roller driving down the road!
I think it might be the rear propshaft UJ
Does this sound like a fair guess?
I couldn't find anything wrong after inspecting/pulling/pushing/turning everything I could see or get my hands to under the car.
So with the back wheels off and the car on axle stands I started it up. In both neutral and throughout the gear range. I drove it through every gear, to approx 3000rpm and an indicated 40mph in 5th gear. And did this test a couple of times with the engine off between the 'runs'
There was nothing. Not a squeak - other than from my bum! Being sat 3ft in the air in my garage with an indicated 40mph is a bit cheek clenching!
In fact it sounded better than ever because I've probably refitted the exhaust better.
I've now road tested it and the noise was evident before we even got off the drive.
So here is what we found
The noise is only there under load but it is obvious as soon as I start to move.
It disappears when freewheeling both with the clutch depressed and the car in gear or with the car in neutral.
The noise is NOT evident when the car is travelling in reverse at up to approx 10-15mph
The noise DOES NOT change if the car is driven around left or right corners.
The noise has a definite rhythmn.
It isn't a metallic rattle as I said earlier, it is a thump thump.
It sounds a bit like a chug chug as if the exhaust is blowing. BUT ITS NOT THE EXHAUST.
It sounds like an old steam road roller driving down the road!
I think it might be the rear propshaft UJ
Does this sound like a fair guess?
I've ordered a UJ and will do that first, and check that big nut while I'm at it.
Then if its not sorted out I'll pull the drive shafts off and have a look at the CVs
If that still doesn't fix it I'll pull the diff to see what we find and change the bushes at the same time.
Thanks for your suggestions FFG, but everything on the exhaust side looks fine.
TBH, I would have thought with the noise its putting out that its not the UJ, because it would be in bits. But its the cheapest and easiest bit to sort out so I'll give it a go.
Then if its not sorted out I'll pull the drive shafts off and have a look at the CVs
If that still doesn't fix it I'll pull the diff to see what we find and change the bushes at the same time.
Thanks for your suggestions FFG, but everything on the exhaust side looks fine.
TBH, I would have thought with the noise its putting out that its not the UJ, because it would be in bits. But its the cheapest and easiest bit to sort out so I'll give it a go.
I pulled the OS drive shaft off yesterday ( with a little telephone support from a great guy some of you might remember called Seasider 
)
I didn't think there was anything wrong with the CV joints on this side so I pulled the other drive shaft off as a point of reference.
The NS CV bearings are quite dry and very shiny - unlike the OS which were covered in grease.
Proper melted chocolate consistency grease.
Am I the only one on here who loves the feel of thick grease
Sorry, I digress.
The NS CV joints are both a little 'clicky' when I shake them but not really as loose and obviously knackered as I thought I would find.
So I'm taking both to a BBQ this afternoon where 4 guys who know about cars can all offer their opinion.
I wonder how many of them will have their hands covered in grease before 5 mins is out
)I didn't think there was anything wrong with the CV joints on this side so I pulled the other drive shaft off as a point of reference.
The NS CV bearings are quite dry and very shiny - unlike the OS which were covered in grease.
Proper melted chocolate consistency grease.
Am I the only one on here who loves the feel of thick grease
Sorry, I digress.
The NS CV joints are both a little 'clicky' when I shake them but not really as loose and obviously knackered as I thought I would find.
So I'm taking both to a BBQ this afternoon where 4 guys who know about cars can all offer their opinion.
I wonder how many of them will have their hands covered in grease before 5 mins is out
Well this ruddy saga continues.
I've got enough to go on for now, so please don't tell me any more things that it could be or I'll go mad.
But suffice to say, I had to literally hammer both CVs off of the NS drive shaft - thats all put back together now with new CV joints/boots etc.
Last night I started dismantling the OS drive shaft CVs to re-grease them because they felt OK, until I took the boot off one and the bugger jams as it rotates.
This morning I've been trying to get that off the shaft and it won't come off either. I've tried a puller, heat, 4lb hammer and it won't shift.
I even hit my thumb with said 4lb hammer - presumably its a trick I've read and its stuck in my subconscious memory because I can't think why else I'd do something so bloody
It will come off, I guarantee that.
I'm not effing about with this any longer while the sun is melting the ruddy tarmac and my 'Summer' car is in bits in the garage.
This morning I ordered 2 more CVs and I'm off back to the garage now for a bit of anger management therapy with a hammer
[/rant]
I've got enough to go on for now, so please don't tell me any more things that it could be or I'll go mad.
But suffice to say, I had to literally hammer both CVs off of the NS drive shaft - thats all put back together now with new CV joints/boots etc.
Last night I started dismantling the OS drive shaft CVs to re-grease them because they felt OK, until I took the boot off one and the bugger jams as it rotates.
This morning I've been trying to get that off the shaft and it won't come off either. I've tried a puller, heat, 4lb hammer and it won't shift.
I even hit my thumb with said 4lb hammer - presumably its a trick I've read and its stuck in my subconscious memory because I can't think why else I'd do something so bloody
It will come off, I guarantee that.
I'm not effing about with this any longer while the sun is melting the ruddy tarmac and my 'Summer' car is in bits in the garage.
This morning I ordered 2 more CVs and I'm off back to the garage now for a bit of anger management therapy with a hammer
[/rant]
You know Rev, you're probably right
Today I went out in the Landy and took a mate to the Land Rover Owner show in Peterborough. We had a great day out in the sunshine, eat pies & sausages and spent money on my favourite toy - the Landy.
On days like today I wonder if I'm cut out for TVR ownership.
Today I went out in the Landy and took a mate to the Land Rover Owner show in Peterborough. We had a great day out in the sunshine, eat pies & sausages and spent money on my favourite toy - the Landy.
On days like today I wonder if I'm cut out for TVR ownership.
And so the saga continues....
I've replaced all 4 CV joints and on the test run last night I still had a duff, duff, duff, duff noise which increases with speed, but which I discovered I can make go away by either depressing the clutch or feathering the throttle to reduce load.
Tonight I've pulled off the prop and both UJs are ok.
I would replace one, except the new one i bought from David Gerald is the wrong size !!
I forgot about that big nut, so I'll check that first thing in the morning.
Then I'll check the wheel bearings.
Is there any way at all I can check the diff?
The brackets look ok.
The only bit of good news in this so far is the CVs balls were knackered. The guys at work (I work for a bearing co.) inspected them under the electro microscope and told me the car had at some time had water in them and been stood for a while, corroding the balls. So they weren't much longer for this world.
I've replaced all 4 CV joints and on the test run last night I still had a duff, duff, duff, duff noise which increases with speed, but which I discovered I can make go away by either depressing the clutch or feathering the throttle to reduce load.
Tonight I've pulled off the prop and both UJs are ok.
I would replace one, except the new one i bought from David Gerald is the wrong size !!
I forgot about that big nut, so I'll check that first thing in the morning.
Then I'll check the wheel bearings.
Is there any way at all I can check the diff?
The brackets look ok.
The only bit of good news in this so far is the CVs balls were knackered. The guys at work (I work for a bearing co.) inspected them under the electro microscope and told me the car had at some time had water in them and been stood for a while, corroding the balls. So they weren't much longer for this world.
You might be right Graham.
I've ruled out CVs, prop UJ's and splines, wheel bearings, loose big nut and damaged diff brackets.
So yesterday we dropped the new oil out of the diff, which has done about 4 miles, and found shards of metal attached to the magnetic plug.
They are very shiny, so my guess is they are ball bits.
Time to drop the diff.
Is there an upgrade to the GKN unit or do i just have it rebuilt?
In a masochistic kind of way I think I'm enjoying this journey
I've ruled out CVs, prop UJ's and splines, wheel bearings, loose big nut and damaged diff brackets.
So yesterday we dropped the new oil out of the diff, which has done about 4 miles, and found shards of metal attached to the magnetic plug.
They are very shiny, so my guess is they are ball bits.
Time to drop the diff.
Is there an upgrade to the GKN unit or do i just have it rebuilt?
In a masochistic kind of way I think I'm enjoying this journey
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I hear you, and the diff is on its way out to go to the nice man who will fix it, but without being able to diagnose the fault with the car in the air, there was no way I was going to all the trouble and expense of pulling the diff without investigating the other possible options first.
This is the electron microscope picture of corrosion on one of the balls in one of my CV joints. All 4 CVs had at least 2 balls in this state.
Would you have ignored this and still pulled the diff out?
Ians CVJ Ball by Barreti, on Flickr
I hear you, and the diff is on its way out to go to the nice man who will fix it, but without being able to diagnose the fault with the car in the air, there was no way I was going to all the trouble and expense of pulling the diff without investigating the other possible options first.
This is the electron microscope picture of corrosion on one of the balls in one of my CV joints. All 4 CVs had at least 2 balls in this state.
Would you have ignored this and still pulled the diff out?
Ians CVJ Ball by Barreti, on Flickr
Edited by Barreti on Thursday 27th September 00:25
I'm ignoring the lot of you, though some of you deserve stitches 
Actually, I've been a bit poorly so didn't want to be in a cold garage, and now i'm sunning myself in Spain for a few days.
I'll be dropping the diff next weekend and we'll pull the back casing off to have a nosy inside because I'm still not happy we haven't been able to find the fault, and I'm curious what it looks like inside an LSD
I'll then be dropping it off at a place I found recommended in Hinckley, Leics which is local to me and who has quoted 425 +vat for a recon unit so at the worst I can just buy one of them.
Actually, I've been a bit poorly so didn't want to be in a cold garage, and now i'm sunning myself in Spain for a few days.
I'll be dropping the diff next weekend and we'll pull the back casing off to have a nosy inside because I'm still not happy we haven't been able to find the fault, and I'm curious what it looks like inside an LSD
I'll then be dropping it off at a place I found recommended in Hinckley, Leics which is local to me and who has quoted 425 +vat for a recon unit so at the worst I can just buy one of them.
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