2017 TVR predicted pricing
Discussion
The new TVR due in 2017 has generated a lot of debate, some of which is whether the price estimate is unrealistic. I have contributed to other threads where this part of the new car has come up time and again and thought it deserves its own topic.
As a deposit holder I'm at a loss to understand where the £80k+ estimates and assertions come from. I for one will walk if they approach that. Indeed I would buy a Mustang V8 at £34k tomorrow if I thought that's were they will end up. Can I ask if anyone who is 'talking' up the price actually a deposit holder too...
This is my thinking;
The list prices for TVRs when they were running down between 2005-2007 ranged from £38-55k. Let's not add to the issue and option up, give or take a couple if k its spot on.
The direct equivalent price taking into account inflation as of today funnily enough works out to be near the current TVR management estimate of £55-75k for the new car. If you add in the claimed effiency of the build process being undertaken and a third party effectively providing the warranty for the engine I think they are spot on. The claim is for an affordable giant slayer, anymore than that it is not a slayer but a runner in the Giants pack. Or are we saying the current TVR management don't know what they are talking about. Discuss.
As a deposit holder I'm at a loss to understand where the £80k+ estimates and assertions come from. I for one will walk if they approach that. Indeed I would buy a Mustang V8 at £34k tomorrow if I thought that's were they will end up. Can I ask if anyone who is 'talking' up the price actually a deposit holder too...
This is my thinking;
The list prices for TVRs when they were running down between 2005-2007 ranged from £38-55k. Let's not add to the issue and option up, give or take a couple if k its spot on.
The direct equivalent price taking into account inflation as of today funnily enough works out to be near the current TVR management estimate of £55-75k for the new car. If you add in the claimed effiency of the build process being undertaken and a third party effectively providing the warranty for the engine I think they are spot on. The claim is for an affordable giant slayer, anymore than that it is not a slayer but a runner in the Giants pack. Or are we saying the current TVR management don't know what they are talking about. Discuss.
Glad you read what I actually posted......
I don't actually expect it be at Mustang prices that's just plain daft I know, but also I do not expect it to start with the 8 out of the blocks either. I fully expect there will be models and upgrades that may take one there, but to me that is something other that the TVR DNA when you look at the inflation extrapolation I quoted....
I don't actually expect it be at Mustang prices that's just plain daft I know, but also I do not expect it to start with the 8 out of the blocks either. I fully expect there will be models and upgrades that may take one there, but to me that is something other that the TVR DNA when you look at the inflation extrapolation I quoted....
Edited by HarryW on Sunday 6th September 21:46
350Matt said:
Black Tasmin said:
I would think that the new car would be in the high £70k going by the fact that they have no money to make the car as the annual accounts for their first year of trading as a so called heritage parts supplier, shows a bank balance of only £66,691. With salaries and outgoings this is not sufficient funds to even make one car, hence why there is no design, prototype or even a scale model. A very amateur way to manage a car company especially going by the confirmation letter for deposit, the deposits are clearly being used to build the car.
On top of this Edgar does NOT own TVR and is all spin, the badge is being used under licence, my fellow TVR car club members have pulled out!
We could also assume that the full 250 deposits could be false to gain a sense of achievement in deposits and to make the product worth more than the asking price.
How many times have we heard several build date times 2013, 2015 or is it 2017 and still no designs obviously due to the lack of money!
and who are you exactly mr 1 post?On top of this Edgar does NOT own TVR and is all spin, the badge is being used under licence, my fellow TVR car club members have pulled out!
We could also assume that the full 250 deposits could be false to gain a sense of achievement in deposits and to make the product worth more than the asking price.
How many times have we heard several build date times 2013, 2015 or is it 2017 and still no designs obviously due to the lack of money!
get back under your bridge
Can’t deny TVR were probably losing money towards the end, however there were many more significant reasons other than pricing that led to that. Which is a completely separate discussion which to be fair was done to death back in the day.
I’m trying to get discussion back on the track I intended it to be. Not very well I know and I’m repeating myself too, but in big handfuls, TVRs price point was £40-55k back in the mid noughties, that equates to £55-75k today.
The market for TVRs is a difficult niche one but all TVR statements and interviews of late have said they intend to pick up that niche were it left off as there is a gap in the market. LE did state in a previous interview that the TVR market was the same as the second hand Aston one, so that helps somewhat. He has also been very dismissive of overpriced cars, but I assume by that he meant that for Hypercars, not the sports car market, although Ferarri. Lambo and McLaren effectively starting at £200k are well above TVR in price point and not worth comparing. If you look at what’s available this side of the overpriced ones you struggle, but I’ll have a go.
For example starting prices for the following;
Aston Martin V8V £87k
Porsche 911 £74k
Porsche Cayman £40k
Lotus Evora £53k
Lotus Exige £56k
Ford Mustang GT V8 £34k
My expectation and anticipation, blind faith if you like, is that the initial launch car will be the ‘main stream’ car. Call it the modern Chim, Griff, T350 etc a bread and butter car and the price point for that according to Steve Cropley at Autocar will be around the £60k mark. PH still seems to think that the car should come in at £80k+. Whereas I expect upgrades (Red Rose, ‘S’ models etc) to boost the basic car price to that point and possibly beyond but why do I seem alone in thinking the whole point of TVRs niche market will be missed if that is the starting price…………….
Discuss..............
I’m trying to get discussion back on the track I intended it to be. Not very well I know and I’m repeating myself too, but in big handfuls, TVRs price point was £40-55k back in the mid noughties, that equates to £55-75k today.
The market for TVRs is a difficult niche one but all TVR statements and interviews of late have said they intend to pick up that niche were it left off as there is a gap in the market. LE did state in a previous interview that the TVR market was the same as the second hand Aston one, so that helps somewhat. He has also been very dismissive of overpriced cars, but I assume by that he meant that for Hypercars, not the sports car market, although Ferarri. Lambo and McLaren effectively starting at £200k are well above TVR in price point and not worth comparing. If you look at what’s available this side of the overpriced ones you struggle, but I’ll have a go.
For example starting prices for the following;
Aston Martin V8V £87k
Porsche 911 £74k
Porsche Cayman £40k
Lotus Evora £53k
Lotus Exige £56k
Ford Mustang GT V8 £34k
My expectation and anticipation, blind faith if you like, is that the initial launch car will be the ‘main stream’ car. Call it the modern Chim, Griff, T350 etc a bread and butter car and the price point for that according to Steve Cropley at Autocar will be around the £60k mark. PH still seems to think that the car should come in at £80k+. Whereas I expect upgrades (Red Rose, ‘S’ models etc) to boost the basic car price to that point and possibly beyond but why do I seem alone in thinking the whole point of TVRs niche market will be missed if that is the starting price…………….
Discuss..............
DonkeyApple said:
Aston Martin V8V £87k Nice runabout for the wife.
Porsche 911 £74k Expected runabout for your accountant.
Porsche Cayman £40k Your son's car.
Lotus Evora £53k Your Head of IT's car.
Lotus Exige £56k Your Junior Programmer's car.
Ford Mustang GT V8 £34k At £34k, you'd just buy it for the hoot!!
Re pricing for TVR's, I think anyone expecting them to be under £60k will be upset but how expensive they end up being has to be down to what savings the iStream process offers. If they were being built in the traditional way but benefiting from much higher quality shells and doors that all fit out of the box and using other modern tech gains for production I would guess you're going to be easily over £100k nowadays. But the iStream process is the real variable. If that massively cuts the number of people you need to employ and the space you need to rent then the cars could come in much lower.
My gut feeling is that they'll try to get prices as inline with the Evora as possible to start with but aim to move prices north as efficiently as possible.
Good someone on a similar page to me. I see the Evora as the most obvious car currently in the market vacated by TVR. It's pricing goes from £52k6 to £60k (£62k if you include the +2). Whilst the TVR will have a more premium interior and a V8 rather than a boosted V6, to stray too far north on the release pricing will end in tears IMHO. Which puts me back to where I think the base car should be, £60-65k..... There I've said it.....Porsche 911 £74k Expected runabout for your accountant.
Porsche Cayman £40k Your son's car.
Lotus Evora £53k Your Head of IT's car.
Lotus Exige £56k Your Junior Programmer's car.
Ford Mustang GT V8 £34k At £34k, you'd just buy it for the hoot!!
Re pricing for TVR's, I think anyone expecting them to be under £60k will be upset but how expensive they end up being has to be down to what savings the iStream process offers. If they were being built in the traditional way but benefiting from much higher quality shells and doors that all fit out of the box and using other modern tech gains for production I would guess you're going to be easily over £100k nowadays. But the iStream process is the real variable. If that massively cuts the number of people you need to employ and the space you need to rent then the cars could come in much lower.
My gut feeling is that they'll try to get prices as inline with the Evora as possible to start with but aim to move prices north as efficiently as possible.
TVRinBFG said:
Hi HarryW - Interesting debate, but you've forgotten the F-Type, which is probabaly the closest to a modern day TVR currently on sale. I don't see how TVR can build a cheaper car and I don't see how they can get significantly more performance? (I guess similar bhp, but maybe a lighter car.....?)
The Evora interior is pretty impressive for a specialist car, I think the new TVR interior will struggle to be better than the Lotus, just different.
Finally £60k less 20% VAT; less 10% dealer margin; less circa 5% warranty insurance leaves £43300 back to the new TVR Factory, to build a car and make a profit....
Fair point about the F Type, whilst the supercharged version is in the bracket at £51-60k ish the V8 R model is squarely in the AM V8V bracket at £87k, perhaps it's just me but I'd rather go AM than contribute to the JLR machine...The Evora interior is pretty impressive for a specialist car, I think the new TVR interior will struggle to be better than the Lotus, just different.
Finally £60k less 20% VAT; less 10% dealer margin; less circa 5% warranty insurance leaves £43300 back to the new TVR Factory, to build a car and make a profit....
SAGTAFF said:
HarryW said:
Just to reiterate the point I'm trying to make yet again.
The list price for the Sagaris 10 years ago was just over £50k, perhaps optioned it was £55k, or £57k for Doms one as stated in another thread. At the same time the T350 was just under £40k list......
I think we got your point but general view is that the automotive industry has moved on from 10 years ago therefore the price of the new TVR will be circa 70k basic, 80k an upwards fully loaded. You can keep on asking the same question but the answer is going to be the same!The list price for the Sagaris 10 years ago was just over £50k, perhaps optioned it was £55k, or £57k for Doms one as stated in another thread. At the same time the T350 was just under £40k list......
Not sure if that 'we' just includes you, your (royal) household or the nation... Can you expand on where you get your price point from though, I'm interested to understand.I have laid out historic TVR price points, hence the niche they sat in and extrapolated to current levels using the compound inflation, which is a fair if not exact measure. I could have pointed out that actually car prices have not kept up with inflation and are actually cheaper in real terms today than they were then. A couple of examples the V8V quoted below was £80k in 06, which means applying inflation means it should be £106k, but it's £87k. The 911 C2 was £59k extrapolated is £78k and so on.
Don't misunderstand me, I fully realise that TVR can charge what the hell it likes, the nub of my initial and continued question is can those that say it should be at the top of the estimated bracket please explain why you think it will be...
Edited by HarryW on Monday 7th September 22:47
Gazzab said:
I suspect that the car will be circa £60/65K for the basic spec and that they will release more expensive cars shortly thereafter ie same basic car but with higher bhp, enhanced brakes and damping... These cars will likely be disproportionately more expensive.
I wish them luck and hope that they can get a car launched, that it lives up to what most of us want, that they can sell a bucket full and that they turn a decent profit.
Would also be great to see a TVR race series based on the road cars. Maybe with the older TVRs providing a support race/series.
Agree, although I hope the 'poverty spec lower power version' has at least 450hp, otherwise I'd be disappointed. It also has to have the violence in delivering it like a Cerbera under WOT too.........I wish them luck and hope that they can get a car launched, that it lives up to what most of us want, that they can sell a bucket full and that they turn a decent profit.
Would also be great to see a TVR race series based on the road cars. Maybe with the older TVRs providing a support race/series.
viperbluecerb said:
Deposit paid, got to do my bit! Certainly a huge challenge but I for one am excited that someone has the balls to give it a go. It's TVR at the end of the day, expect the unexpected.
Sort of what I did, thought f
k it, it's a new TVR it's going to be exciting I'm in........what possibly could go wrong.DonkeyApple said:
Re pricing. We might as well run a competition.
Forget about the highest price because options will fiddle that, so what, to the £ will be the lowest price that the new TVR will be available for, the absolute bottom?
Plus, the bonus question: what month will the first customer delivery be? It has to be a 2017 month (let's have some blind faith in a computer games nerd who suddenly decides to build iconic road cars
).
I'll start with:
A: £74999.99
B: September
September because if it is going to happen in 2017 then I can't see them delivering cars in snow and ice only for the media to photograph the first batch of cars stuck up trees.
A: £55,001Forget about the highest price because options will fiddle that, so what, to the £ will be the lowest price that the new TVR will be available for, the absolute bottom?
Plus, the bonus question: what month will the first customer delivery be? It has to be a 2017 month (let's have some blind faith in a computer games nerd who suddenly decides to build iconic road cars
). I'll start with:
A: £74999.99
B: September
September because if it is going to happen in 2017 then I can't see them delivering cars in snow and ice only for the media to photograph the first batch of cars stuck up trees.
B: January
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