TKO 600 in a Chim or Griff

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Has anyone done this? and mated it to a Rover V8?
If so how did you go about it?

Cheers
Slideways

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stainless_steve said:

slideways said:

Has anyone done this? and mated it to a Rover V8?
If so how did you go about it?

Cheers
Slideways

It will fit,Jelison fitted one in a Chim but with an LS.
Guess you need to find a bellhousing for the Rover V8

Edited to add be easier to go Quaife T5

Edited by stainless_steve on Wednesday 5th May 21:03

agreed on the t5 but its only rated up to 450lbs

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Graham said:

How about an elite il600s 6 speed sequential. That will fit.

just had a look on their web site and couldn't find it listed? what's it rated to?

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stainless_steve said:

Come on spill the beans,what you up to SC or turbo?

Turbo,
Two of the buggers to be precise, aiming for around 600+BHP, The engines being build from the ground up with bits from the states so should be as strong as an anvil,
so the gearbox is going to be the weak link and the most expensive to fix when it goes, i have been looking into lots of different types and TKO 600 seems to be the way forward with good ratios and a choice of overdrive for cruising, I'm now looking at what's involved in fitting

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any one know the length and type of the input shaft on the T5 so i can compare the length to the TKO as they quote GM Ford Mopar and TVR used a 23 spline input from i dont know what.

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stainless_steve said:

This guy used an auto bellhousing

http://www.britishv8.org/Other/RichardNorman.htm

I came across that in my research! i will look closely at my range rover bellhousing and take some measurements

EFA I've just read that it's a p6 bellhousing with an adapter plate

Edited by slideways on Thursday 6th May 06:39

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shpub said:

The alternative is to talk to CTS (gearboxman) and get him to uprate your T5 with his Quaife made kit. He has customers running 7-800 bhp through it. Exactly the same externally so no changes needed what so ever which saves a lot of time and expense.

I use it on my supercharged Wedge. 540lb/ft of torque. I've snapped diff mounts but the gearbox has been fine.

I have spoken to Bernie and the guys at G force for their uprated T5's
This was the reply from G force:
Our G-Force T5 transmissions are only rated up to 600 rwhp and 500 ft/lbs torque. It appears that you would have too much power for this transmission.
Bernie also hinted that his all singing all dancing shot peened T5 could still give up if i were to give it some in third when the turbos spooled up.
They were probably just covering there backs as they are rated lower than what i will be putting through it, and i know i will lose traction on road tyres way before max torque is reached,
if they can't / won't guarantee the box because my lump over loads it then maybe the TKO is the way forward,
That said i would love to stick with the T5 as its soooo much easier

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I will do some more research on both the T5 and TKO 600,
Derek have you spoken to Bernie at CTS about your application, i would be interested in what he says about that,

Also found this
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/astroperformance...
still not strong enough though

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Quick update and a few more questions,
Dellow in OZ can make a bespoke bellhousing with lines in and a hydraulic centre thrust race
and liberty gear can supply an upgrade smoother shifting TKO 600 with various ratios,

I have a choice of diff one standard and a 3.9, I have used various gear calculators which all say the car is good for 200mph+ at 6200rpm using 17" wheels,
which i believe to be the smallest i can fit over 322mm tuscan s brakes and calipers,
My question is should i go for the .64 5th gear?

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RichardD said:

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Overdrive?

True of course

Suppose it is down to if optimum acceleration is required in top gear (Fighting Torque, Thunder Road) type events.

One thing with such a tall final drive, is would the very low gears have excessive grunt?

Such as if a 250bhp car can do 40mp in first, how fast in first should a 500bhp car go in first ?

Here's my thinking! a 3.9 or the standard diff with standard gears 1 to 4 = massive acceleration and the .64 fifth is enough to take it to 200mph without with out taking the revs above 6500 and there is normal cruising at about 2200rpm at 70mph with both turbos spooling up at between 2200rpm and 3500rpm.

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tvrolet said:

slideways said:

Quick update and a few more questions,
Dellow in OZ can make a bespoke bellhousing with lines in and a hydraulic centre thrust race
and liberty gear can supply an upgrade smoother shifting TKO 600 with various ratios,

I have a choice of diff one standard and a 3.9, I have used various gear calculators which all say the car is good for 200mph+ at 6200rpm using 17" wheels,
which i believe to be the smallest i can fit over 322mm tuscan s brakes and calipers,
My question is should i go for the .64 5th gear?

Are you sure of your calculations?

I have a TKO600 in the 'tvrolet' with a 3.73 diff. On 18" wheels my pre-build calculations at 6500rpm (on a .82 5th) were:
1st - 45mph
2nd - 69mph
3rd - 101mph
4th - 130mph
5th - 158mph

OK, not a high top-end, but as a track-focussed car every gear is useable. More impotantly, with a lot of track miles behind it a) the calculations ARE correct, the data logger proves it, and b) it works fine. If you're running 17" wheels, even with higher profile tyres than me you'd be down on mph, not up.

I have all this in a spreadsheet and with a 3.91 diff on 18" wheels I'm seeing
1st - 43mph
2nd - 65mph
3rd - 97mph
4th - 124mph
5th - 151mph

But I wouldn't go for the .64 5th unless you're building a motorway cruiser. The 'standard' .82 5th on the TKO is a sensible 'next' ratio up from 4th if you're accelerating up through the box. .82 would be a jump to far unless you just want it as an 'economy' top gear

Editied - wondered at first how you came to 200 mph, but I just put in a .64 5th gear in my spreadsheet and on 18" wheels [actual measured rolling circumference] it'll get you 193mph at 6500rpm on a 3.91 diff, or 203mph on a 3.73 (and 218 on a 3.46, 234 on 3.23, 246 on 2.07). These are all the ratios available on the BTR diff.

Still better on the .82 though - 151mph, 158, 170, 183, 192 on the 3.91, 3.73, 3.46, 3.23 and 3.07 respectively, from all the possible BTR diff ratios.

Edited by tvrolet on Thursday 10th June 11:37

Thanks Tvrolet thats the kind of info I'm after, I may have been optimistic in my tyre size choice ,and I am using a GKN diff so limited to 3.9 and 3.45 I think?
I can live with a smaller rolling radius, the idea was to have a good cruising gear with the ability for 200+ top end, on a very long straight without ragging the tits of it.
It maybe possible to rev a little higher occasionally but i wanted to gear it so i wouldn't have to, and lets face it how often do we take these cars above 70mph ,This is for special occasions ? I do a lot of touring across europe hence the .64 route!
I know i'm trying to get the best of both worlds but it maybe like you said its a too bigger jump?

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blackiepaul said:

make sure you change the drive shafts with that power output.

oh

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RichardD said:

slideways said:

...Here's my thinking! a 3.9 or the standard diff with standard gears 1 to 4 = massive acceleration and the .64 fifth is enough to take it to 200mph without with out taking the revs above 6500 and there is normal cruising at about 2200rpm at 70mph with both turbos spooling up at between 2200rpm and 3500rpm.

What are your performance priorities? A normal RV8 TVR has massive acceleration in 1st already and with a lot more power there could be wheelspin rather than additional acceleration.

If you wanted say the best 100mph time, a car with short gearing can be slower due to not being able to get the power down fully in the lower gears then wasting time changing gear. This applies to traditional manual 2wd cars of course, not e.g. a Nissan GTR.

YHM.
I am kind of hoping someone will be along shortly to say there are more longer ratio gkn diffs available?

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hiltonig said:

slideways said:

stainless_steve said:

slideways said:

Has anyone done this? and mated it to a Rover V8?
If so how did you go about it?

Cheers
Slideways

It will fit,Jelison fitted one in a Chim but with an LS.
Guess you need to find a bellhousing for the Rover V8

Edited to add be easier to go Quaife T5

Edited by stainless_steve on Wednesday 5th May 21:03

agreed on the t5 but its only rated up to 450lbs

is that rating before Quaifed ???

no after, before is a max of 230lbs

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shpub said:

I had a long chat with Bernie at CTS the other day. One interesting point that came up is that the TKO600 is rated at 600lb/ft CONSTANT torque. It doesn't mean that the box can take 600lb/ft under all conditions which is what the spec seems to infer. This means that while the box can take clutch dumps etc, it is relying on wheel spin to reduce the torque and keep it at a reasonable level. Go onto sticky tyres etc and the torque shock loading increases and they break.

The point is that the torque ratings can be a bit misleading as they don't typically say under what conditions they are measured. What is more telling is the exclusions - several US owners have broken TKO600s only to find that track use/drag runs and sticky slicks have invalidated the warrenty.

With the level of power you are talking about, the gearbox and the rest of the transmission has to be declared a consumable as you will be running it outside of its constant spec. I ran LT77 boxes for years on that basis simply because the cost of an several annual rebuilds was significantly less than changing the gearbox. It wasn't until I went over 500 bhp and started to snap internal shafts that I changed. Based on the paper specs... I should have broken the box every time I used it. However I never really established under what conditions the torque spec was measured/quoted.

The CTS T5 and the TKO600 are about the same cost and spec in reality. Having seen the gears in both, I do think the CTS T5 has the edge. The key point is that the T5 route is cheaper and simpler to fit and the money saved could be set aside to something else or the "consumable" fund, especially as there is no guarantee that the TKO600 will take 600lb/ft in all conditions.

Edited by shpub on Friday 11th June 10:02

I think I will need to have another chat with Bernie! If I am not going to gain anything by using the TKO then there's no point in making life difficult!