Professional Valeters and Detailers - Car Care Advice Thread

[Pro Valets]

Hello all - we are the Professional Valeters & Detailers Trade Association. Posts from our "Pro Valets" user account will only ever be from Bert (a Car Care expert who has many years experience in products and development) or Rich (a Professional Car Detailer, specialising in Classic Cars).
We currently have over 160 members nationwide who are all vetted for Insurance (all members must hold Accidental Damage cover as well as the more usual Liabilities), Experience, Quality and Pricing as well as Customer Feedback.

Please take a look at our website - www.pro-valets.co.uk - where you will find an easily searchable database.

Having been PH members for many years and seeing all sorts of questions pop up on here about Valeting and Detailing with a wide variety of responses from useful tips and guidance to the "pop over and I'll do it for you". By sponsoring this thread, we hope to cultivate an area where we can link PHers with our members for Professional advice and recommendations, or to help you find your nearest Approved Valeter or Detailer to do the work for you, thus removing any concerns about workmanship before they are let loose on your pride and joy.

Our members will be popping up to answer queries, and each will sign off with a link to their PVD Profile so you can see they are legitimate.

OK... Go!!

[Pro Valets]

Hi Douglas,

In Scotland, Alan Medcraf at AM Details is your man.

You can find his profile page here - http://www.pro-valets.co.uk/store-page/car-detaili...

Hope that helps,

Rich

[Pro Valets]

For those of you that aren't aware, PVD have produced a magazine containing loads of editorial content written by our members and supporters.

Regardless whether you are a hobbyist or professional, it is a great read!

You can buy it here - www.pro-valets.co.uk/blog/pvd-car-detailing-magazi...

Rich
www.classic-details.co.uk

[Pro Valets]

one eyed mick said:

Hi I am having my 23 year old Mx5 repainted next month ,orig colours etc ,what is the best product to keep it looking good ,its a second car [toy! ] and I would like to think it will last a few years , also I intend to stripe it [pro job ] would it be better to wait until the paint is fully cured hardened before applying lemans stripes? thanks in advance

Hi there,

In any circumstance I would not recommend sealing or fitting your stripes until around 6-weeks after the paintwork is finished to allow the paint to fully cure. I would also suggest that you have your stripes fitted prior to application of any sealant to ensure that their adherence is not adversely affected by the product.

The best thing would be to have the car properly prepared and a long-life sealant applied by a professional once the stripes have been fitted. Many of our members offer ceramic or glass based coatings and you can find your nearest approved professional by entering your postcode into the search box at www.pro-valets.co.uk.

Kind regards,

Rich @ PVD

[Pro Valets]

one eyed mick said:

Thanks for the reply this was what I was thinking perhaps a couple of months ,re sealant I,m on a budget and a pro ceramic job may be well above it canyou give me a ball park fig ? thanks again

You will appreciate tat as we are a Trade Association, all of our members are independent and have their own pricing structures. However as a budget price you will be looking from £300 upward for a pro ceramic job. As an example, with another hat on as my own company Classic Details, I would be charging around £400 for a similar service depending on the condition of the paintwork finish and how much it may need refining prior to the sealant application.

Rich @ PVD

[Pro Valets]

We are planning to undertake some blind product testing and publish the results. As an independant body our test criteria have been rigourously plotted and to ensure a good spread of opinion we are selecting a test panel not just of our Car Care Professional members, but also of a group of other enthusiasts and weekend warriors.

Before we can start the first round of tests we need some nominations as to the best products from each category and we would be grateful if you would visit our voting form HERE and let us know your thoughts.

Keep checking back on www.pro-valets.co.uk/blog/ over the next few months for other opportunities to get involved with future testing opportunities!

Thanks for your help!

Rich @ PVD

[Pro Valets]

As some of you may know, the second edition of the PVD Magazine is now available through www.pro-valets.co.uk/magazine

Almost twice the size of the original issue it has been written by our members to provide a wide-range of information, reports and guides as well as our "Megatest" where we have followed a strict testing procedure on a selection of shampoos, glass cleaners and tyre dressings which were all voted for by our followers and then tested under defined criteria by a panel of independent enthusiasts and professionals using a "blind" protocol whereby each product was sent out in unidentifiable packaging to ensure preconceptions would not affect the results.

We are running a series of Facebook competitions as well where you can win a weekly prize for providing a brief review of your favourite article at www.facebook.com/ProfessionalValetersDetailers/

Rich @ PVD

Edited by Pro Valets on Sunday 7th February 07:41

[Pro Valets]

Magic919 said:

Magazine link needs to lose the full stop, as it gives a 404.

Thanks! Hopefully all sorted now.

Rich @ PVD

[Pro Valets]

Hi Rod,

Thank you for your question. There are essentially four key ways to protect the paint work of a car.

The simplest is with a wax - these are easy to apply, can mask some light marks, and the best can last over six months, at which point a safe wash and decon, followed by another layer of wax can continue the protection. Even some waxes under £20 offer good protection, spend a little more and you will get benefits. Some of the top waxes out there cost £1,000's - but generally it's the law of diminishing returns. We are actually testing 24 waxes in our latest magazine for December - the results are fascinating.

Next up is polymer sealants - they are also easy to apply and last longer than waxes, but for the best visual results, you can wax over the top. A good sealant costs anywhere between £15 - £40 for a bottle that will do the car many times over.

Most of the new car protection options sold by car dealers are polymer sealants - some are OK, but usually the poor application and next to no prep work means they don't last long, and the application process itself can damage cars - when they wash the car with sponge, or dry it with a chamois leather they will be adding in marks. Alas in a dealership, valeters are at the bottom of the pile somewhere between the work experience kid and the photo-copier boy - though top-end dealers are starting to employ proper car care professionals on demand, it's a slow process. In terms of value - dealer protections are often sold for £300-£800 but the product costs less than £20, and they normally give a contract valeter half an hour to apply them - many of our chaps spend a lot of time correcting these cars.

The third option is ceramic coating - there are a growing number of products and people offering them. On the positive they do offer some physical protection against abrasion over and above the UV protection offered by waxes and polymer sealants. They also offer much greater durability than the other options - some manufacturers offer 3, 5, and even 7yr guarantees - though to last they need correct maintenance. However, before applying them, the car needs to be perfect - they don't mask any swirls or imperfections, so the car will need machine polishing prior to application. They can cost a similar amount to a dealer applied protection, but you are getting much much better value for money. As they are tricky to apply properly, do be careful who you choose - a badly applied coating takes days to repair - quite a few are applying them with too little experience and the wrong facilities - do not choose people on price as it will likely cost much more in the long term.

Finally we have PPF - the most expensive option but one that offers the most protection. It also has the benefit of being easy to remove and replace once it's done it's job - that of being sacrificial protection for the car.

What ever option you go for, your detailer can liaise with the dealer in advance of delivery - he or she can organise for the car to be treated prior to collection, and equally, stop the well-meaning dealer from 'prepping' the car, usually adding marks and swirls to the paint. They should be advised not to even remove the protective plastic until the detailer is on site.

Your nearest PVD Approved member is Ecurie Esprit in Stratford - I would suggest giving Tom Morrison-Jones a bell on 07910 108 507 - he is Koch Chemie and Swissvax Approved and will be in a good position to assist.

Kind regards

Bert @PVD - the UK Trade Association for Car Care Professionals

[Pro Valets]

My pleasure Rod - Tom can also do Xpel Paint Protection film - so everything is covered!

[Pro Valets]

GordonFev said:

Hi

Like one of the earlier posters i am getting a new car...well, actually, i've just got it. However it arrived with paint defect and also external paint damage so the manufacturer is going to fix that. However it made me realise how thin and potentially fragile the paint surface is on this car compared to my previous VW. So my question is....what is the best method to protect the paint from damage? The car is leased so it'll have to go back to them in 2 years...oh and of course, i don't want to spend a fortune as it's not a hi-end sportscar and i'm not minted....i'm in Guildford. All advice happily received

Edited by GordonFev on Saturday 13th May 16:22

Hi Gordon - there are plenty of new car paint protection options out there. The most expensive option is Paint Protection Film (PPF) which is essentially a clear polymer film that offers the best protection against physical abrasion and stone chips. The latest generation of films are 'self-healing' - essentially if deformed by a stone they can be gently heated and will return to their previous shape. These can be fitted to the whole car or just the vulnerable areas like bumper and bonnet - but even the latter will generally be a four-figure price.

Next step down are ceramic coatings - again there is a huge range on the market - some for the home user, some for professionals, and some only for professionals who have completed product-specific training. They normally come as a liquid, which is then applied in a very thin layer. This hardens, forming the protective sacrificial layer. They won't defend against stone chips as well as PPF and they can be vulnerable to water-spotting, but some are guaranteed to last up to 7 years, and most will easily last your lease period. A pro will charge £100-£300 to apply, but will (and should) insist on a full decontamination and single stage machine polish prior to application - thus you would be looking at between £250 - £750 on a new car depending on the size of the car, the condition of the car, the selected product, and the selected detailers.

The next step down are polymer sealants - again their is a vast range. Dealer-fit paint protection packages are normally based on polymer sealants. The best out there will last a year or so - maybe a little longer with the correct maintenance and top-up procedures. Protection wise they contain UV filters to slow oxidation (which causes paint fade) and create a sacrificial layer, usually hydrophobic, that makes it harder for dirt to adhere to the paint. There is very little protection against physical abrasion. Cost wise, a detailer should suggest a wash and decontamination prior to application - you'd be looking at £80 to £200 depending on the amount of prep work required and the products used. Polymer sealants are fairly straight forward to apply though, so they can be done at home safely - the key is in the prep as the products themselves are normally under £20.

Finally there is good old fashioned paste wax - the best will last up to a year, but the vast majority will be nearer 2-4 months - but they are easy to apply, create a nice deep gloss, and if applying once a quarter for two years, you'll only need a single pot.

While paint protection is absolutely worth the time, effort, and cost - the vast majority of damage we see on car paintwork isn't because they haven't used the correct protection - it's because it has been washed and dried incorrectly. If you take a sponge and chamois to a ceramic protected car you will most likely cause damage - on the flip side, if your car is protected with a paste wax and you wash it following proper procedure (pre-wash, two-bucket method, wool or chenille wash mitt, microfibre drying towel etc) then you are far less likely to damage the paint.

So in conclusion - if you want a fit and forget option PPF is the toughest but priciest. Ceramic coatings are a fair bit cheaper, will last the 2 years needed, and offer most of the protection with the exception of stone chips. Polymer sealants will need some maintenance and offer significantly less protection, but are vastly cheaper. Wax will be about the same price and require more 'topping-up' but, arguably, can give a deeper lustre than most sealants thanks to their filling properties.

Just to complicate matters, there are liquid waxes and paste sealants too - then there are organic waxes that also contain polymer sealant... and there are sealants that contain elements of ceramic protection... and there are paste waxes that contain synthetic polymer sealants and silicon dioxide similar to that in ceramic sealants.... but this is why detailers never get asked to dinner parties or are allowed to share elevator space more than once.

[Pro Valets]

Hi - thanks for your question.

The headlights can be restored, but as you've identified, the oxidation will reoccur if they aren't protected afterwards.

There are various products out there which can offer well over a year of protection that detailers can get hold of off the shelf with no need to join an affiliation program - IGL Coatings, CarPro, Gtechniq all do suitable products.

We have actually done a video on the process here which might be useful: https://youtu.be/OnvbCUp3Zck

Your local PVD member will be able to assist you further if needed

[Pro Valets]

Our pleasure - hope you get them sorted

[Pro Valets]

Hi - reference the Audi S4 - we did an article with Colourlock in Issue six - here is a JPEG of it - hopefully it will be useful

[Pro Valets]

Ali Chappussy said:

Roughly, what kind of cost does this do the external paint, inside and wheels?

Mines a Ford Focus (not Ferrari) and I just to give it a treat!

Hi Ali - prices vary dramatically so we can't give an estimate on behalf of an approved member.

I would suggest emailing your local detailers with a description of what you would like and then they will be able to provide you with a quote. Some may want to view the car in advance - which is entirely normal.

Generally speaking, a car is a car - detailing a Ferrari might have the odd added complication compared to a Focus - such as composite bodywork and intricate mouldings, but any self-respecting detailer will treat your car with the same care and attention as they would a 458.

A key thing to remember when asking for a quote is being specific as to what you want - asking if someone can 'detail my car' will usually lead to a 'how long is a piece of string' answer. Have a look through their service descriptions on their websites - that will give you a guide to pricing and what sort of service would suit you.

[Pro Valets]

Cooper2 said:

Hi,
What’s your view on paint protection film and ceramic coating? Looking at doing the front of my car but concern the ceramic coating would be unnecessary set on top of the film.

Hi,

Generally speaking people tend to go one way or the other. Or they PPF the front of the car and areas most at risk of stonechips, then ceramic coat the remaining areas.

That said, there are coatings out there that are compatible with PPF - Max Protect for example do one - and they would add another layer of sacrificial protection between your paint and the elements. I would suggest checking with both the PPF manufacturer, and the ceramic coating manufacturer before going ahead - particularly in the case of self-healing PPF.

On the topic of whether or not it is worth doing, I think that is probably a matter of personal choice

[Pro Valets]

Hi,

The reason why it is suggested to wait a while before doing certain treatments to a recently painted car is that new paint needs to 'outgas' where some of the remaining solvents essentially evaporate over the first weeks and months after application.

With brand new cars it is slightly different as it was likely painted well before you actually take delivery of the vehicle.

Anything that supposedly forms an airtight layer over paint may compromise this outgassing process. This mostly applies to PPF rather than ceramic coatings.

If your car has been re-sprayed, it is usually wise to leave it a while for the paint to fully harden. But again, with brand new cars the painting processes are different from a bodyshop and so it's less of an issue.

In reference to your brand new car, we would suggest getting it ceramic coated as soon as it is delivered, or even before delivery if you wish to get your Detailer to prepare it at the dealership.

[Pro Valets]

I think we and XJ1337 are agreeing really - modern car, modern paint, factory applied - I think we're both saying you'll be absolutely fine to apply a coating as soon as you get the car

[Pro Valets]

Thank you for your question Brian. The DB7 intake manifolds are painted and there is a real risk of removing the paint as it often doesn't respond well to vigorous cleaning.

We would suggest using a mild all purpose cleaner - APC - start with it very diluted, then gradually increase the concentration if the paint is holding fast and the detritus is not shifting - caution here is key.

You can spray the APC directly onto the manifold (obviously when the engine is cold) and then very delicately agitate it with a soft detailing brush. You can then dab (rather than wipe) it dry with a microfibre cloth. Alternatively you can apply the APC to the brush directly to avoid overspray onto the rest of the engine compartments.

A steamer would be ideal here, which you can use in combination with APC, ideally set to a low pressure.

It's much better to have repeated gentle steps rather than trying to remove all the dirt in one heavy step - it will doubtless take longer but the risks are too high to cut corners.

Also remember to protect the wings of the car when working over them to access the engine - be careful of things like belt buckles and trouser buttons. I believe the bonnet is supported by gas struts rather than a stay, but if not, do ensure it is securely held up to avoid slightly awkward-to-explain head injuries.

The products and equipment mentioned above can be sourced from online detailing stores, steamer aside, none are very expensive and all can be used for other detailing processes in the future.

Hope this helps

[Pro Valets]

rthomp25 said:

Hi - Can you let me know of any local leather repair services for a front seat bolster in the Stratford upon Avon area ? Many thanks.

Thanks for your question - your nearest PVD approved member is Tom at Ecurie Esprit - I believe he will be able to organise leather repairs for you (http://www.ecurieesprit.co.uk/)