Rover P4 - Stored in garage for over 20 years.
Discussion
Evening all,
First post I think, I signed up years ago but pretty certain I never posted before. So, Hi!
I'm in need of some technical knowledge so hope this is the correct place to ask?
To cut a long story short I've been asked to help a friend get his late grandfathers Rover P4 80 back on the road, it's been in storage since at least 1980, possibly longer.
I'm a bikes guy myself, I don't even have a car licence, but, I'm handy with a set of spanners and I've got a decent chunk of knowledge I've picked up over the years working on two wheelers, so I agreed to help, I figured an engine is an engine, brakes are brakes etc... and those bits that are only relevant to cars I'll learn as I go.
We've come across two major issues to start with.
1) The car wont move! The tyres are like upside down anvils and the brakes are seized solid. We've very limited access around the car but have hatched a plan which in essence involved changing the front tyres and sticking the rear end on skates to allow us to roll the car out of the garage. From there we can stick some round tyres on the back and should hopefully have something we can move around the yard a bit to allow better access. We've made a slight start on this by getting the front up on axle stands and removing the wheels and callipers.
2) The engine wont budge with the crank handle. This is something I've come across with bikes and so have left it with diesel down the bores to try and release any seized rings. Failing that I'm into slightly newer territory. I've never worked on a pushrod engine, and never worked on an engine where the barrels don't come away from the crank cases. I'm told it is possible to remove a car's sump and gain access to the bottom of the con rods? I've had the sump off of an engine before but being a bike there was a gearbox in the way of access to the crank. Is removing the sump the best next step? What else might be causing the seizing? Any other advice for a n00b to car engines?
Thanks for reading and sorry for the essay!
A couple of pictures for your perusal, I didn't take many so don't get too excited:
First post I think, I signed up years ago but pretty certain I never posted before. So, Hi!
I'm in need of some technical knowledge so hope this is the correct place to ask?
To cut a long story short I've been asked to help a friend get his late grandfathers Rover P4 80 back on the road, it's been in storage since at least 1980, possibly longer.
I'm a bikes guy myself, I don't even have a car licence, but, I'm handy with a set of spanners and I've got a decent chunk of knowledge I've picked up over the years working on two wheelers, so I agreed to help, I figured an engine is an engine, brakes are brakes etc... and those bits that are only relevant to cars I'll learn as I go.
We've come across two major issues to start with.
1) The car wont move! The tyres are like upside down anvils and the brakes are seized solid. We've very limited access around the car but have hatched a plan which in essence involved changing the front tyres and sticking the rear end on skates to allow us to roll the car out of the garage. From there we can stick some round tyres on the back and should hopefully have something we can move around the yard a bit to allow better access. We've made a slight start on this by getting the front up on axle stands and removing the wheels and callipers.
2) The engine wont budge with the crank handle. This is something I've come across with bikes and so have left it with diesel down the bores to try and release any seized rings. Failing that I'm into slightly newer territory. I've never worked on a pushrod engine, and never worked on an engine where the barrels don't come away from the crank cases. I'm told it is possible to remove a car's sump and gain access to the bottom of the con rods? I've had the sump off of an engine before but being a bike there was a gearbox in the way of access to the crank. Is removing the sump the best next step? What else might be causing the seizing? Any other advice for a n00b to car engines?
Thanks for reading and sorry for the essay!
A couple of pictures for your perusal, I didn't take many so don't get too excited:
Tyres are long beyond holding air! We did have a good go with a compressor but to be honest even if they'd seated I don't think they'd be airtight.
Sparks were taken out but still no luck with turning the engine over. I've never used a crank handle before so I'm unsure how easy it should be to turn over or how much force I can risk putting through the drive?
When we can get the car out of the garage I reckon we'll pop the head off and see what condition everything is in.
The sump thing, from what I gathered I could remove the conrod caps and tap the bottom of the pistons using a wooden drift to remove the pistons from the block if I can't free them with the diesel and crank handle. Would this not work?
Sparks were taken out but still no luck with turning the engine over. I've never used a crank handle before so I'm unsure how easy it should be to turn over or how much force I can risk putting through the drive?
When we can get the car out of the garage I reckon we'll pop the head off and see what condition everything is in.
The sump thing, from what I gathered I could remove the conrod caps and tap the bottom of the pistons using a wooden drift to remove the pistons from the block if I can't free them with the diesel and crank handle. Would this not work?
AW111 said:
The storage must have been nice and dry - the suspension and brake disk show a pleasant lack of rust.
Sorry, managed to completely miss this post.Will the rust on the disks come off alright under normal usage or will it wreck the pads? I could remove them and skim them at work if it's necessary. All of my bikes have had stainless disks so I've not had to deal with much more than light surface rust at the most in the past.
I'm lucky to have an engineering workshop at my disposal so I've borrowed a pair of 2 tonne skates for the weekend, hopefully there won't be any issues.
On the wheel bearing front, I wasn't really sure how necessary it was? I've given the hubs a good wiggle and there doesn't seem to be any untoward movement, but again I'm used to bike wheels and I'm unsure what needs checking in which directions?
On the wheel bearing front, I wasn't really sure how necessary it was? I've given the hubs a good wiggle and there doesn't seem to be any untoward movement, but again I'm used to bike wheels and I'm unsure what needs checking in which directions?
A very productive day!
Possibly a little much diesel but the plan is to change the oil before running it anyway so not fussed about it being watered down by the diesel if it passes the rings.
There was no major rust visible on the tops of the pistons, and nothing major in the bores but with a thin feeler gauge you can dislodge rust from down the side of the piston and feel a lumpiness along the line of the ring so I reckon that's what's causing the issue. That said there has been zero movement at all with the crank handle which is slightly concerning. It's going to be left as it is for another week or two before we resort to other methods for freeing the engine.
The cooling system appears to be mostly made of rust and corrosion, as can be seen here:
I opened up the radiator tap and about half a litre of rusty water came out, there didn't appear to be much more than that left in the system. Could something like the cooling system pump be gummed up enough to prevent the engine turning? Also given the state of the visible bits I presume I'll need to flush a few gallons of water through the cooling system before this goes on the road?
Lastly, with the rear wheel popped off, and also while opening the radiator tap I spotted a fair bit of rust. The exhaust is a gonner, I'm unsure how rusty the leaf springs can be? They're fairly crusty but I reckon it's mostly surface rust, would that pass an MOT? Pictures below:
Possibly a little much diesel but the plan is to change the oil before running it anyway so not fussed about it being watered down by the diesel if it passes the rings.
There was no major rust visible on the tops of the pistons, and nothing major in the bores but with a thin feeler gauge you can dislodge rust from down the side of the piston and feel a lumpiness along the line of the ring so I reckon that's what's causing the issue. That said there has been zero movement at all with the crank handle which is slightly concerning. It's going to be left as it is for another week or two before we resort to other methods for freeing the engine.
The cooling system appears to be mostly made of rust and corrosion, as can be seen here:
I opened up the radiator tap and about half a litre of rusty water came out, there didn't appear to be much more than that left in the system. Could something like the cooling system pump be gummed up enough to prevent the engine turning? Also given the state of the visible bits I presume I'll need to flush a few gallons of water through the cooling system before this goes on the road?
Lastly, with the rear wheel popped off, and also while opening the radiator tap I spotted a fair bit of rust. The exhaust is a gonner, I'm unsure how rusty the leaf springs can be? They're fairly crusty but I reckon it's mostly surface rust, would that pass an MOT? Pictures below:
About time for an update, though not much to update upon, more to ask advice!
We've been back to the car twice since my last post, apart from giving it a well needed wash we've not made much in the way of progress. We've tried a serious amount of force through the crank handle, and also putting the car into gear and rocking it backwards and forwards. Alas, the engine still wont budge!
We've removed the fan belt from the engine to remove any chance of it being the cooling system pump or dynamo preventing the engine turning. The only external thing still connected up is the starter motor, what are the chances of that being so buggered it completely stops the engine moving?
Assuming it isn't the starter motor I guess my next bet is to go in from the bottom and tap out the pistons. Anything we should be aware of here?
The plan very loosely is to drop the oil and any remaining coolant, remove the sump with the engine in place, then remove the con-rod caps and tap the pistons out of the top. We can then begin to inspect the condition of the bores and go from there.
Anything we are likely to face snags with? Anything else worth checking before removing the sump?
Thanks
We've been back to the car twice since my last post, apart from giving it a well needed wash we've not made much in the way of progress. We've tried a serious amount of force through the crank handle, and also putting the car into gear and rocking it backwards and forwards. Alas, the engine still wont budge!
We've removed the fan belt from the engine to remove any chance of it being the cooling system pump or dynamo preventing the engine turning. The only external thing still connected up is the starter motor, what are the chances of that being so buggered it completely stops the engine moving?
Assuming it isn't the starter motor I guess my next bet is to go in from the bottom and tap out the pistons. Anything we should be aware of here?
The plan very loosely is to drop the oil and any remaining coolant, remove the sump with the engine in place, then remove the con-rod caps and tap the pistons out of the top. We can then begin to inspect the condition of the bores and go from there.
Anything we are likely to face snags with? Anything else worth checking before removing the sump?
Thanks
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff