Rover P6, Jaguar XJ6... or something else?

[khd82]

This is my first post here on PH after a heap of lurking - hopefully you guys can help out!

Basically I'm looking for an affordable classic sedan (max budget AUD$10K) for weekend cruising. I'm pretty keen on doing the mechanical maintenance and repairs myself so I want it to be fairly DIY friendly if possible, and it's going to be a third car (not a daily driver) so reliability isn't my number one concern. The main criteria I'm looking for are:

• Room for the family - preferably four door saloon with decent rear seat
• Classic 60s-70s style, prefer chrome bumpers not rubber
• Active club scene in Western Australia (I want to take advantage of concessional licencing and be able to learn from other local enthusiasts)
• Decent roadworthy (but not perfect) examples available on my budget - I've got time to do my own regular maintenance and repairs but don't want to take on a full blown project or have to do extensive bodywork and welding as it's not my strong suit!
• I'm not after a performance/drag car but I'd like enough power for decent highway cruising.
• Prefer classic British cars (you can blame my English heritage for that) but open to other suggestions

Based on this criteria I'm thinking either a Rover P6 (the V8 3500) or a Jaguar XJ6 (series 1 or possibly series 2), but I'm open to any other suggestions out of left field (I noticed a Merc W114 for sale around the corner from me recently and it also had me tempted).

I'd love to hear from other members that have experience with either the Rover or the Jag, particularly if you worked on them yourself at home!

Cheers

[khd82]

Hooli said:

What's that then?

I'm guessing it's like our free road tax for old sheds treasured classics.


I'd get the Jag, just because I loved my XJ40. That was easy to work on too, so I'd suspect the older ones are too.

Yeah I think it's similar - my econobox costs about $500 a year to licence here in WA, but if you have a vehicle over 25 years old (in more or less original condition) and join the relevant club it's free. There's limitations on how much you can drive the car, but for me it'll be perfect as I'm only looking for a weekend car.

Thanks for the feedback on the Jag... it's definitely my first preference and they're still pretty common here in Australia (more so than the P6 anyways) so finding a good one shouldn't be too hard. To be honest I can't believe how cheap old Jags are here - I guess they aren't the most practical daily transport for a place where it gets up around 40 degrees on a regular basis in the summer time

[khd82]

williamp said:

Rover p5?
Range rover?

A contemporary of he p6 was the triumph 2000,2.5pi etc

Thanks for the suggestions - the P5 is definitely on my list, although most of the examples I've seen here are either really rough or out of my price range. I don't know if I'm being unfair but I haven't really considered the Triumph's because the 3.5 L V8 in the Rover sounds so good - I'd be interested to hear whether the smaller engines can be just as fun?

The Series 1 Range Rover is an excellent suggestion that wasn't on my radar, so thanks for that! My dad had a couple of these when I was a kid and I've got a lot of fond memories of him driving us up onto the beach and sitting on the tailgate to eat fish and chips... these days there's not many beaches in Perth where you're allowed to drive but it could still be a lot of fun for me and the kids

[khd82]

Wow thanks for all the great responses, you've really made me feel welcome! I'll try to respond to you all, but apologies if I've missed anyone...

mph said:

Your first choices sound good to me. I'd go for the Jag, preferably a good S1 if you can find one within your budget.

A german taxi of the same era just doesn't do it, for me at least

Hahaha I think you're spot on - the w114 was a bit of a novelty but it really lacks a certain something.

Besides I can just picture the look of horror on my grandfather's face as he sighs and mutters "why did we even bother to win the war..."

rovermorris999 said:

The P6 isn't that big inside and the rear seat in an XJ isn't huge either. Both lovely cars though. How about a P5 or a Triumph 2000/2500?

My kids are fairly small still so it's probably fine... plus, if I get a nice XJ6 with leather I probably wouldn't let them ride in it anyways, they'd only ruin it with their sticky little fingers

Tyre Tread said:

Have a look at the Rover P5B saloon or coupe.

There are a number of active of P5B owners that post on the Rover P5 forum from Australia. Not sure which bits of Oz they post from though.

The car certainly fits your description though.

Thanks for the suggestion - the P5 is lovely, but I think it's a little out of my price range for a decent one over here. I've got it in my saved searches though... never know your luck!

TheValk said:

Great post.
As a former owner of Jaguar Mk 7, 8, Mk2 3.8, plus 2 of the 2 door Range Rovers just be prepared for endless frustration, considerable money outgoings, unexpected delays/failures etc. They were all very interesting vehicles (after all I kept buying them), but never really put together as the complete package. There are some great websites which detail all the pluses and minuses, and give unbiased evaluations on the vehicles- but I am sure you know that already. As a 3rd car, probably just about the best starting point you could have. Good luck with the search.
ps All my old ownerships have now soared in value, so what do I know

Thanks mate, great feedback! I'm pretty much accepting that whatever I get isn't going to cut the mustard as my daily drive, so that should take some of the stress out of things!

I think the series 1 XJ6 is firming up as a front runner.. they're relatively common around here, although not as much as the series 3! I must say though, the suggestion of an early Range Rover (it'd have to be pre '87 for my tastes) has really taken hold right out of left field. I've so many memories of my dad's ones, plus I might actually let the kids ride in it given I seem to remember them having a fairly spartan interior!

rovermorris999 said:

The straight six in a Triumph 2000/2500 sounds lovely, especially through a Witor sports exhaust. My pick of the bunch would be a 2500S manual. Overdrive is nice to have as well. Spares backup is excellent for everything bar a few trim bits. Pretty DIY friendly too with lots of room under the bonnet.

I've gotten onto my local online classifieds and there's a couple of nice Triumphs near me... damn this was supposed to make it easier to choose, not harder

Crosswise said:

Interesting topic and a great choice of car. It happens that I used to work in Perth on classic cars, I did jobs for members of the Jaguar car club and Bentley driver's club. I also own a S2 Daimler Vanden Plas 4.2L which is still in WA. I can't really help you much with where to look to purchase a car, but I do have a couple of useful contacts when it comes to parts. I'm sure you're aware, but parts are extortionately expensive compared to the UK which is probably why the vehicle prices haven't really started to increase yet. I know less about Rovers, the only ones I ever worked on were SD1s, I'm not sure I ever saw a P6. My preference would be the XJ6, S1 or 2, but I'm biased, either is a great classic.

Cool - have you moved back to UK or are you still in Aus? I might try keep in touch if you don't mind... those contacts will come in handy if I end up with an XJ6 of my own

Also, how did you find the Jaguar club members? I'd like to join a club so I can learn from people with experience before I mangle my own car, but at the same time I'm nervous that they might think I'm having a laugh showing up to a meeting full of $100K e-types with a much more affordable classic!

[khd82]

Crosswise said:

I'm now living in NZ, it's just too expensive and too difficult to keep working in Aus. PM me if you like, I'll send you who I know, I can give you a reasonable amount of advice on what to look for on an XJ6 as well.

I didn't have too much to do with the Jaguar car club, I think I did one job for a member and my boss was good friends with another, that was the extent of my involvement. I got invited to a number of events with the Bentley driver's club where there were other clubs present. I'd say from my point of view the majority of the members were completely out of touch with reality, but very interesting and genuine people, they certainly don't mind saying what they think. It is mostly XKs, E-Types, Mk I-X, plus a number of modern XJ6s, I can't remember seeing a series, but I'm sure there are members with them and one would be welcome.

This is my Daimler;

Very nice car mate, I'm jealous Also thanks for the offer of help, if it's alright with you I'll save you in my list and send a PM if I see something interesting to go and have a look at!

[khd82]

tortop45 said:

What about =

Very cool mate, but unfortunately I haven't seen too many coupes over here... and the ones that I have seen commanded a bit too much of a premium for my budget

[khd82]

Crosswise said:

You wouldn't want it! It needs a lot of bodywork, sills, rear wheel arches, front wings, front crossmember and rear floor to list the worst. The jacking points won't load bare which is a concern as outwardly the floors and chassis members look solid. I've already spent 100s of hours on it without even starting on the bodywork. I know I spent over 40 hours getting the electrics to work, I can't think of one thing that worked as it should. The radiator burst on it, the previous owner spent $1000 on having the water pump replaced, it wasn't the issue, the header tank was blocked. It took me 5 months to find a new radiator as that style was only fitted for 8 months of production to XK engined cars with AC. They can be a frustrating, expensive and time consuming car to own.

Certainly feel free to get in touch if you need any advice.

sun.and.rain said:

Some s3 XJ6s circa 1979 were like that at one year old.
I still love them though.
On a more positive note are there any years of manufacture for OP to avoid? I believe quality control 1979/80 was "not good". Were the s1s really better? Were the latest ones best of all?

Edited by sun.and.rain on Sunday 11th October 18:00

P5BNij said:

I've always got the impression from contempory road tests and later classic car mag articles that S1s were very well put together, and the problems at Browns Lane started a year or two into S2 production. Build quality on the early S2s can be patchy (mainly in the interior fittings and paint finish) but there aren't that many survivors anyway.

On another positive note I've just got back home after a very satisfying three hundred mile round trip in my '73 S2 XJ, despite it having sat virtually unused for about two years with the previous owner it drove wonderfully today, it didn't overheat or miss a beat in heavy London traffic. Aside from a tiny bit of wind noise around the n/side front door top (just needs a new seal) it was a joy from start to finish. I'd previously been put off buying one after reading lots of typical BL / 70s horror stories, but find a good one and you won't regret it. Likewise with a good, solid Rover P6.

Edited by P5BNij on Sunday 11th October 19:07

Crosswise said:

Most of the issues with mine were not as a result of poor build quality, but a continued lack of routine maintenance. Because of how things work in WA, it was still road legal with none of the lights working correctly, the brakes hardly working, running hugely rich and leaking fuel, oil and ATF.

I would agree that the S2 probably did suffer from more build quality issues than any other model. Most of these are very unlikely to still cause problems 40 year on though and generally I think the parts quality is very high.

Thanks for all the great info guys... much appreciated! There's definitely heaps more series 3 cars available here but given that it's not going to be my daily drive I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit (or maybe a lot depending how unlucky I am) of reliability in exchange for those classic good looks! I guess I'm shallow like that

Long term though, perhaps if I keep chipping away at my wife she might relent and let me swap one of the horrid econoboxes for a Series 3 daily driver

shaunwalls said:

For me a good Jaguar wins the game most times. S1 and S2 XJ6 have been long under valued compared with the daft prices for Aston and Italian sporting saloons of the same era. The scrappage scheme/ high fuel costs and tinworm took many of these out of the pool in the UK and there aren't many good ones left. For me it's a 2 door XJ12 that lights the fuse although a '76 XJS is just about to enter the free road tax band that makes the sub 20 mpg a little more reasonable if you add in classic insurance at £120 pa and the prospect of an increasing value. Interestingly parts are still readily available in UK - I just picked up a remanufactured injection loom for my Daimler Double Six which was not available five years ago.

Whatever you choose, well done on the retro ride journey, it's a way of life

I have seen some lovely XJ12s available here for around the same money as the XJ6, but for some reason I just find the prospect of DIY mechanics a little daunting on those V12 engines! Perhaps when I've a little more experience, but something tells me that a simpler straight 6 is more the ticket for my current skillset...

P5BNij said:

Go on OP, you know you want to...



I'm finding that the more I use it, the more I enjoy it and it certainly seems to thrive on being used properly. I winced a bit when I saw the bill but am now very glad that I spent several quid on getting it back into the shape it deserves to be in, the suspension, cooling system, exhaust and ignition refresh has done it a power of good and has managed to put right a certain amount of neglect which to be fair to the previous owners probably wasn't intentional. Owner number four had it for twenty three years and kept it going very nicely indeed, but subsequently it seems to have sat around for quite some time until it was picked up at auction by the dealer I bought it from. He got it running again and put a new headling in to replace the sagging original, there are still some jobs to do on the interior but just sitting in it gives the impression that it's one hell of a car for the money and a great value classic in so many ways.

Edited by P5BNij on Monday 12th October 20:46

Edited by P5BNij on Monday 12th October 20:55

Not that I needed much more encouragement, but this really isn't helping! After all this talk and your lovely car I've all but neglected checking my Rover, Triumph and Range Rover searches on the usual aussie sales websites, and I'm drooling over the Jags pretty much non stop.

I've a couple things I need to pay for first (damn school fees, dentistry etc), but a XJ6 is definitely top of my list when there's a little more discretionary income freed up! I'm currently tinkering away on an old 70s Suzuki trailbike I'm sentimentally attached to, but lately I've found myself searching around to see how much it'd contribute to the kitty if it went to a new home

[khd82]

a8hex said:

To my mind the P5 is such a different car to the P6, and IMHO so much more desirable, even if I do have some fond memories of being driven around in a dark blue P6 in a uniform which looked somewhat similar to the usually occupants of dark blue P6s. Funny how people always seemed to get out of the way.

I must admit the P5 is a very nice car, and probably more comparable with the XJ6 (certainly in the interior appointment)... but around here they seem to command a premium that takes a decent example just out of my price range!

I'm currently drooling over this local example (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ascot/cars-vans-utes/1973-jaguar-xj6-4-2-series-1-/1091924558), and wishing I had the funds ready to warrant taking a look...

It's torture keeping an eye on the listings and not being able to do anything about it, but I want a good idea of the market so that I'll be ready to go when the time is right!

Edited by khd82 on Wednesday 14th October 09:35

[khd82]

P5BNij said:

Ah, but the torture is all part of the process! When I put my P5B Coupe up for sale at the tail end of last year I worried like a right old wuss over whether I'd done the right thing or not. I miss it terribly but the thruth is I didn't use it as often as I should have done. In the months leading up to the decision I'd been trawling through online ads for '60s and '70s Jag saloons, at first I was adamant that I wanted a Mk2 (still do), it was definitely at the top of the pecking order for me, then I started looking at S-Types and 420s but had to dismiss MkXs and 420Gs as they're just too big for my garage. I shifted the goalposts a bit more until I'd set my heart on a S1 XJ6 as a really practical proposistion for my first ever Jag. I had a pair of early S1s lined up to see but they both sold on the same day. More ruitless to-ing and fro-ing then lead me down the path of early S2s and I lined two up to go and view, including the one I bought. The first one blew me away initially when I stepped inside the dealer's showroom and saw a gorgeous Sable Brown LWB 3.4 Auto, but looking closer it need a fair bit of work and was a bit crusty underneath the front bumper. Some of the chrome needed sorting out and the headling was making a move towards the floor in the usual '70s Jag fashion so I walked away. It would have been nice to have as the history file said it used to belong to someone who lived very close to me, I thought it was fate but no, I still walked away. That car was bought soon after by another dealer and almost a year later is still unsold with £3k added to the original price tag...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C605471

A few days later I ventured up the motorway to view Jag number two and knew within a few minutes that this was the one for me. It needed work, more than the brown one as it turned out but I now have a fantastic, usable waftmobile and I'm happy that I made the right choice - also as it turns out, if I had bought the brown one I'd have been stuffed as being a LWB it wouldn't fit in the garage, despite being only 4'' longer than the SWB version!

I'd love to have kept the P5B and bought the Jag but sometimes you have to shuffle the deck, scratch that itch and move on!

You're right of course - it's actually quite fun checking the classifieds everyday for new cars! I must admit I'm a little obsessive about it... I've kept a spreadsheet of all the cars I've found with price, notes on condition and photos so that I can make a good assessment of the market in my local area. Don't worry, I know, I'm a total geek

In my defence, Perth is one of the most isolated cities in the world and at this price point importing (even from interstate) is pretty much out of the question, so even the Australian price guides that are available aren't much use!

[khd82]

misterp said:

Im in Perth, and the club scene is..eerrr...quiet..to say the least. Given our location and the number of residents (~2M) there is alot of really nice cars, but no really 'huge' single club with exception perhaps to something like the Mustang club?
The problem with your original post will be the $$ you have.
Looks like you are already keeping tabs on the cars that come up so you know what your target cars are already, but dont discount something left field (I have a hankering for a Volvo P1800ES at the moment!)
I already have a TR6 and a Jensen Interceptor..no room left!
The only ones that come to mind for that sort of budget are the Jags (XJ6 etc.) and VW Beetles and perhaps some of the local Fords/Holdens, but the odd MG or Triumph (2500/Dolomite etc)may come up from time to time. The old Mercs are also plentiful.
Remember here as well that most cooling systems in the type of cars we are talking about are designed for the Northern hemisphere and so most can and do need work to get them reliable in 35+ degree heat.

Club rego is a god-send, but there are some reasonably strict rules around the rego. From memory you need to remain a paid-up member of the club otherwise your rego is invalid. Some clubs insist on getting annual checks by the club registrar, and you should only drive it on official club events and/or to and from places to get it fixed/serviced.
Saying that however...its cheap as chips once you get it sorted (mines $40 per year )

Also, worth remembering that parts supply is a challenge sometimes. More often than not, the postage costs more than the part itself and up to now, anything less than $1000 is GST free...but if the new laws come into effect you may find the falling AUS$, postage costs and the added 10% GST may make even the cheapest part stupidly expensive.

The Jag is an excellent starter and I agree with the 6 being simpler than the V12 (thats why the 12's are cheap!) but parts can be pricey...for my money Id perhaps look at a good MG, TR saloon/Stag perhaps as they can be used as a reliable daily driver if needed, have excellent parts availability, and have a decent local support network in their respective clubs.

Anyway..good luck and drop me a message if I can help.

Edited by misterp on Thursday 15th October 09:20

Thanks for the tips misterp... there's a couple of muscle car and motor bike enthusiasts where I work and they also cautioned me on English cars here in Australia! I figure if I keep it as a third car and avoid the absolute peak of summer I should be alright though - unfortunately for me the American/Aussie stuff just doesn't do it for me for some reason.

Thanks for the hints re club membership. I've assumed that "test-driving" for maintenance purposes would also include taking it for a drive after doing my own maintenance to ensure it's working as intended, not just to and from a mechanic. I'm looking to do as much work as possible myself - that's one of the main attractions for me as I like tinkering and I'm looking to step up from messing around with homemade robots, mechanical watches and motorbikes

[khd82]

P5BNij said:

Well played Sir, well played... looks like you've landed on the set of 'Hart To Hart'!

If the situation ever arises where I'd have somewhere to put it I'd certainly consider taking it off your hands, you know how much I admire your Coupe. Hope that awful vibration problem is now long gone... have you got any hair left mate..?

OP - apologies for continually wandering off topic but you know what it's like with old Jags and Rovers

Tyre Tread said:

The house isn't as impressive as it looks. It's a project! Room one is just about done - 2 months after we moved in. The vibrations suddenly subsided. No idea what it was. There's still a trace of it but its barely noticeable. Can't believe I rebuilt the engine twice, had everything balanced and it still didn't solve it and then it just went. Bizarre!I have very little hair left bit not entirely the fault of the Rover. We did Italy in the TVR last year -- Was excellent!

Sorry again OP.

No need to apologise for going off-piste - I'm enjoying the relaxed atmosphere around here which in the main seems pretty constructive and not too aggressive!