Harbingers of doom rejoice, classic car prices chat thread

[bencollins]

Right so those in the know are predicting interest rate rises soon, house price drops etc and shares, commodities are falling as paper money printing slows down. (dont really understand economics so ill leave it there).
What are the still undervalued cars that are safe to buy and which are set for a shoeing?
As an owner of 3 classics id say the Elise S1 £10k and ropey Frogeye £6k (parts costs rising fast) are safe, but the iffy Ferrari Mondial 3.2 cab £22k looks potentially dodgy. Im not selling so it doesnt matter I suppose.

To be controversial ill get me miserable coat on Ill kick off with:

over valued (o/v)
some 911s and Alvis
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/172027022629?clk_rv...

re undervalued (u/v)
70s and 80s everyman classics like a Calibre for £2k
S1 Landies £6k, MGC, TR7 £2k

[bencollins]

There is some kind of wierd formula factoring;

-desirability & aesthetics
-marque & heritage
-usability, reliability & praticality
-status & lifestyle statement
-rarity
-of-its-time-kitsch & charm
-drivability, handling and performance

I think "charm" should not be underestimated because why else would bubble cars be £15k
Anyhoo as someone firmly in the "save them, save them all" camp (like most on here probably), I hope classic car values stay robust because it encourages people to keep using them. All petrol heads should have at least one classic if circumstamces allow that. Those Alfa GTs in the other thread tick so many boxes.

[bencollins]

u/v
300 ZX.... iconic fast practical hatchback coupe and targa (some people like auto).
Nicked from the other thread, gotta be a winner.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[bencollins]

Perhaps auctions give the best barometers of prices, they are also a bit random if you have/don't have competing bidders.
Some of the results here have me scratching my head on what is and isn't cheap/dear
http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/cca-december-2...

u/v merc £2k (after wheel change)
http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/1990-mercedes-...

and o/v
....well at this auction nothing really...perhaps the unsold ones indicate a cooling of?

[bencollins]

Just a heads up for Saturday, some lovely stuff, mostly affordable.
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...

[bencollins]

Lowtimer said:

I had the same reaction to that C2, and did man maths. Then I thought about driving a 52 year old 300-350 hp car home on drum brakes and 205/75 tyres in the pouring rain, coupled with the fact that Mrs LT refuses to be passengered in LHD cars, and undid the man maths...

[Hugh Jarse]

http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
The results are in.
Some baffling prices, especially the capri, but whatever tickles your fancy.
The Mondial I was most curious about seems a reasonable bargain at £26k.
The Mini for £950 was a bargain.
E21 baur for £2k
Z3 £1.3k - though the styling of those cars almost makes me angry its so bad.
Someone needs to explain how one XR3 was £1k and the other £14k

Edited by Hugh Jarse on Friday 29th January 16:07

[Hugh Jarse]

On going Ferrari auction:
http://auction.catawiki.com/ferrari-classic-car-au...

[Hugh Jarse]

auction March 2nd
http://brightwells.com/ClassicCarsMotorcyclesAutom...
those pagodas seem expensive to my eyes, but some lovely stuff in the auction.

[Hugh Jarse]

thanks......link to sotherbys
http://www.rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/results/
2cv for £35k!!
£140k for an Austin Healey
£15k for a smart http://www.rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/lots/2002-s...

surprisingly high proces IMO

[Hugh Jarse]

N Dentressangle said:

I'm not sure this one's undervalued:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Series-One-Diesel-86-CHA...
Looking at the text, it seems he really does want £200k for it

indeed, good spot BTW.
Typical early production car, has electrical fault with the headlamps.
Is this the first diesel LR or first ever land rover? If the latter can imagine its worth a few bob, despite needing attention.

Edited by Hugh Jarse on Monday 1st February 12:04

[Hugh Jarse]

Blimey 200k for the first D! If you dont ask.....
http://www.morrisleslie.com/results-21-11-2015.htm...
Recent results. New auction coming soon apparently end of Feb.

[Hugh Jarse]

One day to go here.
Accessible prices:
http://auction.catawiki.com/modern-classic-car-auc...
nice pug 405 Mi16

[Hugh Jarse]

RichB said:

Hugh Jarse said:

Blimey 200k for the first D! If you dont ask.....
http://www.morrisleslie.com/results-21-11-2015.htm...
Recent results. New auction coming soon apparently end of Feb.

Que?

do elaborate old chap, then i can help you

[Hugh Jarse]

Interesting link, thanks Northo for some professional input.
I think the BRICs, or more accurately the ICs are still the biggest factor.
New supercars are the ones that will get a squeeze, all these oil countries borrowing heavily where income tax has never existed. With cheap oil, there must be people in I&C creaming it just now. These people are very cultured and know that a nice classic is much cooler than new tat.
However, everyday classics will hopefully stay rooted, because they still have to be owned and find garage space. Plus sadly there is natural wastage of enthusiasts (not necessarily clog popping, just too old to bother with the faff) and the fondly remembered top brands like Alvis and Lancia become unknowns and then the focus switches to other brands.
I'm backing a steady increase in values due to limited supply and increasing demand.
Once you've paid the golf membership and mortgage, what else will you spend your fun cash on as a silver surfer/empty nester? Modern cars are ALL brilliant but terrifying to maintain, so then it is all about a lifestyle choice.
Now with lower petrol, hope we will see a few more about, not just at shows > though with the great-unwashed-car-park-dingers-proliferating (GUCPDs), maybe not.

edited for speeling

Edited by Hugh Jarse on Saturday 6th February 08:51

[Hugh Jarse]

Good stuff DA & RM, there are so many factors weaving around.
The connection between top, mid and bottom leagues is interesting.
Where the money to be made is to spot cars moving up a division perhaps.
Couple of comments on other threads about the 2001-6 R230 Mercedes, really lovely modern (neoclassic?) car and only £6-10,000. That's tempting money for the more casual punter and an anchoring force - why have a crusty wired classis when you can have a continent crusher with auto hardtop. Then there's traffic intensity and speed, who wants to break down nowadays, blooming scary. Conversely traffic density means there are very few empty roads, so to extract pleasure from a journey must be a low speed thing = drive a classic.
People borrowing to invest in cars isnt much different to leasing a modern car if you have a steady income.
At the lower end hopefully it is just spending of hard earned.

u/v most stuff from the 70's
o/v some stuff from the 60's

[Hugh Jarse]

Another anchoring factor is those blighters on the continent, who dont seem as keen, must be too busy eating garlic, chasing mistresses and other shenanigans. 1965 VGC boggo Merc saloon £3000 http://auction.catawiki.co.uk/kavels/4331289-merce...

[Hugh Jarse]

Some gloom this time as im generally positive but how many owners have:

• A garage - or more like two
• Handy with spanners
• Enough tools to tackle bigger stuff (or a budget to pay someone else)
• Time
• Inclination
• Free from crumbly backs

etc.
You can buy a lovely £5k modern aluminium jag like below, why bother with the more esoteric stuff?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/j...

[Hugh Jarse]

Certainly an interesting time for personal motoring.
In twenty years most cars will be electric and self driving, following electronic snail trails.
Then the non-ABS, manual steering cars will be cherished, even Vauxhall Vivas.

[Hugh Jarse]

Im pretty sure there can be a workaround, as long as you emit a signal to register your presence to the network then stay within a margin of distance to the car in front when in traffic, likewise maintain the allotted speed margin when in traffic.
Fear not.
Although life in heavily populated areas will get duller.
On the positive side, the chances of you being SUV-squished in your cornflake-packet-retro-safety-cell will reduce.