Elise S1 vs S2

[FinGTR]

Hello I'm a new member here and I think this one of the best places to start making things clear about owning Lotus Elise S1 or S2 and with Rover or Toyota engine.

And I have read Buyer's guide's but still there is open questions, even I got very good answers from that quide. I hope You understand.

I have always loved cars; McLaren F1 is one of my passions and of course; "racecars" to the road is the second one. It is not hard to imagine any other car which is light, compact, simple, no power steering, rear wheel drive, manual gearbox and it has mid engine lay out.
I can not think any else car which could do the job as well than Elise.

I have started to consider in the future to buy Elise; it will not be active plan this or next year perhaps, but it's better to find things out before buying one.

I have some questions about S1 and S2:

1. I have heard that S2 has been build better than S1, who big is the difference with this quality issue?

2. Is there any reliability issues (engine and so on) when compared S1 and S2?

3. What are the Elise's main check lists when thinking to buy one?
- Cam belt, gear box and is there any important things which always should check including these important ones?

4. Seems at least when reading the sale pages; S1 is at least same priced than S2 cars. Seems S1 is the "an orginal Elise" and that's why keeps it price so up even today?
The Elise GT1 racer was made of S1 look, so I think this would also be one of the reasons.

5. I do not have huge budget; I have planned to invest a car which could reach 13 000£ perhaps or a bit more.
- Is there any sense to planning this priced Elise?
- Most of them have close to 50 000 miles on the clock, is it hopeless to wish find some good example?
- I do not need any special versions, 122bh Elise S2 would do very well, but these miles on the clock and so on makes me wonder is it too risky investment to catch?
Meaning the condition of the car.

6. I don't have a change to do services my self, and the target would be to find good example, with good daily reliability and not every week on workshop to fix part by part.
- Do I hope too much specialty Rover Engined Elise?

7. Seems Elise with Toyota Engine is more costly to get than Rover, of course. (I have had many Toyota's and their engines are superb) I would expect that Toyota is more reliable than Rover, but is this assume true?
I have read that Rover engine gives Elise more character than Toyota engine, this I think could be true?

8. What are the main problems with Rover engine? Is how reliable in daily drive? Meaning if you find a good example. I have heard bad things about it but what is the truth about this?
Is it too much to hope to service the car once per year and be out of worries whole summer?

9. If there is anything what I should know about this issue; I would be very grateful to get information, advises and everything is very much welcome.

Thank you for your time!

Edited by FinGTR on Sunday 12th July 12:10

Edited by FinGTR on Sunday 12th July 12:13

[FinGTR]

Thank you very much for your reply!
And there was plenty of very useful informations, what those guides really don't tell perhaps.

Good to know about the prices. 10-15K is very good news to get a good example and well kept Elise.
This is very important that the car has had owner who cares his car.
And very useful information also about the parts; when expected to be changed.

And fortunately I have time to follow the price developments. S1 is one to consider, but I love the S2 design so it was good to know about differences of these two in interior lay outs and so on.
I really hope that when I have changes; the prices are quite much same than today.
And I think I have to take RHD Elise, even in my country our cars are LHD cars, but it's just the price.
I prefer more good conditioned RHD Elise than same priced worse conditioned LHD Elise.

And about that Toyota-Rover issue; I must admit that I did not knew about none servo brakes Rover engine Elise's. And these news really are more than welcome.
It really makes the Rover engine Elise even more interesting than Toyota engine Elise. I must say; I love old school stuff. I love mechanic cars. Cars which are really drivers cars and this non servo brakes makes my choice even more to consider Rover K series Engine Elise. I really prefer a car which has nothing unnecessary.

I know that old car is an old car, there can be always issues with it's reliability. But 1999-2004 is not too old to work well I think. It's not historic car yet. So I believe and hope that even there is issues in technical side; these are not so critical IF the car is OK condition.
But very good to know these!

[FinGTR]

Tickle said:

Pretty much as Kambites has said.

SELOC is a wealth of information, there will be hours of reading regarding things to look out for when buying.

The main thing is (if possible, I see you are not based in the UK) is drive both and see which you prefer. Personally I prefer the K-series cars, I think the engine suits the car more. The non-servo assisted brakes are also a plus for me.

It helps if you are ok with spanners too. They do need attention as little jobs build up and if you can do them yourself it will save in garage labour costs. These are not 'normal' cars so be prepared to put up with their quirks, they more than make up for it when you are driving on the right road at the right time.

Good luck anyway, sure which ever you choose won't disappoint.

Thanks for the tip of SELOC. When I get the change to have one; I will enjoy there. So far the plans are too long way even I would like to have The Elise tomorrow.

Yes I live in Finland and I really considered long time to write here, so thank you very much for your time!
And in Finland; yes we don't have too many Elise's around really. During last years, these have been imported here RHD or LHD cars. But it's still very small segment of people who loves these kind of cars. So here; the quantity is not very good; so I think the driving both here is not possible.

And we have here in Finland British car specialist so it's not a problem to find good company who will do the service with good quality.

And really this brake issue; non servo brakes is more than I ever imagined. This really makes my choice to good conditioned S2 Rover K engined Elise in future. I want a simple car, which have differences to my daily car
"night and day" what comes to driving. Non servo brakes are more than welcome to me. The lack of power steering is more than welcome too.
So I think I can stop to considering Toyota engine Elise. I want a pure car, as simple as possible.
Ok..I know Lotus Seven could be even better, but the it not have mid engine lay out.

[FinGTR]

kambites said:

Ah, just noticed you're in Finland so the "there's a number of good independent specialists around" may not apply. Still, anyone can work on the engine and the rest of the car is at least pretty simple. One thing worth noting is that it's quite hard to find winter tyres in the right size for the Elise so you may need a second set of wheels of a different size if you intend to use it in the winter there.

You might find getting Elise specific parts out there a bit more expensive than here, too.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 12th July 19:52

Same kind of things I have heard from Finnish car enthusiasts, easy to live and it's running cost are very low compared many other mid engine sports car.
And I have no attend to drive it on winter, it would more than nuts. If good winter comes; 30-40cm of snow is not rare thing, 30cm in one night is possible. So no...No winter driving.

[FinGTR]

kambites said:

I don't know if it was sold there but the Vauxhall VX220/Opel Speedster is also the same basic car as the Elise with yet another set of engine options - a naturally 2.2 and a turbocharged 2.0. They are significantly cheaper than an equivalent Elise, mostly just because of the badge.

Yes I know well this issue.
But believe or not; the Finnish car taxes are crazy. You might get a good Speedster with 15K€ (around 10K£) and when you import and pay taxes of it; you can get 5K€ payment of that. So it comes close to 20K€ total price. And when we think that you pay Lotus Elise lets say that 17K€ (13K£), with car taxes it's a bit over 20K€, I really pay more from Lotus this point.

It wasn't long time ago when we had here on sale red Speedster; 85 000 driven and LHD car. 20K€ price. And this moment there is turbo version on sale close to 25K€. You really can get a good RHD example of Elise and even if luck; you have left money to spend.
So really; I prefer the Lotus this point. Even I know facts about Opel.

I know the Finnish car taxes are......well.....I think I don't say it.

[FinGTR]

kambites said:

Ah yeah I'd forgotten Finland's wonderful car tax system.

Yes, it's very good........indeed....

[FinGTR]

But this night really made things clear. Non servo Brakes made things really clear.
I have to ask; 2004 or 2005 was the last year when they did ROver Engines to Elise?
So this would limit the manufacture years around some where 1999-2005 I think, which is good thing.

And My target is naturally aspirated Elise, I don't even consider those supercharged models.

[FinGTR]

kambites said:

The 120bhp K-series was discontinued in 2003; the 160bhp VVC unit in 2005. VVC cars are probably pushing your budget.

This is again good news; now I can really limit the manufacture year to 2003 when thinking having the Elise some point in the future. It's very important to check things right and have a clear plan what I'm looking for.

Non servo brakes and no power steering and of course the Rover engine is light and that is good news also.
I believe that there is changes to find good conditioned car with Rover Engine, I think there will be some technical issues about that of course. It's not a new car. But nothing critical I hope.

I take a short look and seems 9-13K are the prices in S1 and S2 chassis Elises, 122ph cars.
Sounds very good. I don't really looking for any else than this 122hv engine, it's more simple and less power means less problems with transmission and so on. And it will do well the job, to giving the driving experience what I'm after for.

Edited by FinGTR on Monday 13th July 10:53

[FinGTR]

John Galt said:

You are a man after my own heart, and these are exactly some of the same reasons I went for an early S2 K-series Elise. And I am happy to report that the car has been just as wonderful as I imagined it would be. Non-servoed brakes are fantastic!

You just cannot beat mechanical simplicity for the purest driving experience.

Yes 100% agree.
If you want a drivers car; there can be no servo in brakes or steering. That is fact. Still I have no experiences of Elise with servo brakes or any other Elise, but this is just how I feel, what kind of car I really want.
Like I said; I have always liked racecars to the road, and some of the experiences what I have got (luck), with front and mid engine sportscars this thing has come more than clear what kind of car I really want and that it the Elise as simple as it can be. True Drivers Car which difference on my family sedan is night and day.

So Very Glad to hear I'm not alone with this opinion with these brakes specialty. And I'm very glad to hear that you got the car which you most prefer; and you have not have anything serious problems, which have been mentioned. This gives me hope to find good example when time is right.

Could I ask more details of your car perhaps? The model year and how long you have had it and those things?

I just have to get facts about everything; In Finland, which are the running costs and so on. This Forum has given answers which have been more than welcome.
But one thing is sure; the Elise takes less fuel or same quantity than my Toyota.... and that's a good thing!