Racing Green demonstrator driven
Discussion
Right, I finally managed to drive the FFF demonstrator....
First, the bad bits. I'd never driven a Tuscan before, and this car is still a work in progress, so they're still playing with stuff, and ironing out the kinks (the only one being a faulty idle meter or some-such, that cause hesitation at a junction). The car has done a huge amount of rolling road work, thrashed round TAG11, and even worse, been driven by Richard Hammond.
Cold start-up
A clean idle, easy start without any throttle. The engine is quieter than the standard S6 (I drove over in my Sag to make sure I was properly attuned to it, and give it a stern test).
First few miles to get heat in
Very smooth. Very, very smooth. The engine is far more refined and so simple to use at low revs. Still some sizeable grunt there, even not venturing about 3k. I really couldn't get over the way the engine has changed character - to put it in film contexts, the standard engine is Vinnie Jones in Lock Stock - loud, ugly, gets the job done. The FFF is Daniel Craig in James Bond - smooth, but you know it'll rip your head off.
Heat in, working through the gears
Yes, smooth, But really, really bizarrely fast. Really fast (as in left a bike for dead fast). The standard engine you know you're pushing, because you can feel and hear it, but this is stunning. A 3.4 diff, and you're still warp speed (license losing territory) far faster than you'd really expect. I'd go out on a limb and say it would be a good second and a half faster to 100 than the Sag. Strangely enough, it also subtly alters the character of the car - you can really cruise with the engine, it's a real pleasure, but you know that there is an animal at the top of the rev range, and it's so easy to get there. You'll also be glad to know that switchable traction control work very well indeed!
Conclusion
Personally I love it. I think that it is a very different animal to the TVR Power conversions, and I think both will benefit from the difference. People will like what people will like, and therefore they will have a choice to go for. But my choice has been made, and a serious shopping list is growing.... Stay tuned for what I'm going for, and what I'm going to do. So the final take away thoughts are, smooth, refined grunt (still with the pops and bangs a TVR should make), and really fecking fast.
Edit: Racing Green now offer a transferable 3 year warranty with the FFF engine. There is a chance this will be extended in the near future. Please call Racing Green for all official statements, questions and anything else.
First, the bad bits. I'd never driven a Tuscan before, and this car is still a work in progress, so they're still playing with stuff, and ironing out the kinks (the only one being a faulty idle meter or some-such, that cause hesitation at a junction). The car has done a huge amount of rolling road work, thrashed round TAG11, and even worse, been driven by Richard Hammond.
Cold start-up
A clean idle, easy start without any throttle. The engine is quieter than the standard S6 (I drove over in my Sag to make sure I was properly attuned to it, and give it a stern test).
First few miles to get heat in
Very smooth. Very, very smooth. The engine is far more refined and so simple to use at low revs. Still some sizeable grunt there, even not venturing about 3k. I really couldn't get over the way the engine has changed character - to put it in film contexts, the standard engine is Vinnie Jones in Lock Stock - loud, ugly, gets the job done. The FFF is Daniel Craig in James Bond - smooth, but you know it'll rip your head off.
Heat in, working through the gears
Yes, smooth, But really, really bizarrely fast. Really fast (as in left a bike for dead fast). The standard engine you know you're pushing, because you can feel and hear it, but this is stunning. A 3.4 diff, and you're still warp speed (license losing territory) far faster than you'd really expect. I'd go out on a limb and say it would be a good second and a half faster to 100 than the Sag. Strangely enough, it also subtly alters the character of the car - you can really cruise with the engine, it's a real pleasure, but you know that there is an animal at the top of the rev range, and it's so easy to get there. You'll also be glad to know that switchable traction control work very well indeed!
Conclusion
Personally I love it. I think that it is a very different animal to the TVR Power conversions, and I think both will benefit from the difference. People will like what people will like, and therefore they will have a choice to go for. But my choice has been made, and a serious shopping list is growing.... Stay tuned for what I'm going for, and what I'm going to do. So the final take away thoughts are, smooth, refined grunt (still with the pops and bangs a TVR should make), and really fecking fast.
Edit: Racing Green now offer a transferable 3 year warranty with the FFF engine. There is a chance this will be extended in the near future. Please call Racing Green for all official statements, questions and anything else.
Edited by Don1 on Thursday 5th January 19:49
Not that I'm any way near to RG's mouth piece, but I honestly believe that things will come in time. As for the racing part of RG, then let's see what happens.
I know this is a direct competitor to Power, but how long have Power been knocking out the 4.3/4.5 conversions? Three years at a guess? Who says that RG won't offer warrenties when they finally announce everything? They just about have the heads where they want them, the variable cam timing and exhausts are next on their list....
People are very quick to put something down, especially when their colours are aligned else-where. Personally I'm full of admiration for what Power/Str8-Six have done, and what they offer, but I have chosen to go down a different path.
I know this is a direct competitor to Power, but how long have Power been knocking out the 4.3/4.5 conversions? Three years at a guess? Who says that RG won't offer warrenties when they finally announce everything? They just about have the heads where they want them, the variable cam timing and exhausts are next on their list....
People are very quick to put something down, especially when their colours are aligned else-where. Personally I'm full of admiration for what Power/Str8-Six have done, and what they offer, but I have chosen to go down a different path.
I can see what you're saying, but there are a few things that haven't fallen RG's way... If you talk to them, they are very transparent about things, but they just don't have an on-line presence (a company policy).
I may be the only person on here openly saying what I'm doing, but my car will be in the third set of castings they are doing, so there are plenty in front of me.
As with all of this, I'm just trying to give a balanced view across the whole spectrum. I was seriously blown away by the engine, and we'll see what happens down the road (if you'll pardon the pun).
I may be the only person on here openly saying what I'm doing, but my car will be in the third set of castings they are doing, so there are plenty in front of me.
As with all of this, I'm just trying to give a balanced view across the whole spectrum. I was seriously blown away by the engine, and we'll see what happens down the road (if you'll pardon the pun).
Laser Sag said:
Pascal
... and as such with the 5 year warranty he is already two nil up in my book at the moment.
When did Dom offer this five year warranty? Was it this year? Or late last year? And how long has he been offering the conversion? A lot longer?... and as such with the 5 year warranty he is already two nil up in my book at the moment.
FFS, the RG one is still in development! 'Oh, but it doesn't have a five year warranty', I hear you say. Neither did the Power conversion when it came out.
Give it time. Those of us who talk to RG, have a relationship with them are happy with what they tell us, and then prove. It is also the same with Power, Str-8 Six (I have spoken with Dom and Jason on the phone, and they have both offered advice and support just for the fact that I'm a TVR owner on the other end of the phone - top people, and Jason has been taking my money very happily - and I love the parts he sends me in return!).
All I'm saying is that there are different courses for different horses, I was blown away by the FFF, it suits my driving style better than the 4.5, and I know others are happy with it.
2-0? I think the old firm derby will be going into extra time with this....
I don't know how I can make this point any more simple.... But I'll try.
The FFF (+bits), is still in development.
They are 'nearly' happy with it, and happy enough to take orders. (No down payment yet either for me, as my build would be in a few months).
As soon as all the pricing and options are nailed down, then would be the time to have it in black and white on the website.
If anyone wants to talk to them about it, they will happily give chapter and verse on the phone, or face to face.
(As an aide, they have been very pro-active in updating and changing their site, making sure that the information there is 100% accurate. They would have written what is there for a good reason. Also, maybe they want to be slightly realistic, and give dates they can work to - my head won't even be cast until August, so you can see the time frames already. The last sentence is conjecture though....)
The FFF (+bits), is still in development.
They are 'nearly' happy with it, and happy enough to take orders. (No down payment yet either for me, as my build would be in a few months).
As soon as all the pricing and options are nailed down, then would be the time to have it in black and white on the website.
If anyone wants to talk to them about it, they will happily give chapter and verse on the phone, or face to face.
(As an aide, they have been very pro-active in updating and changing their site, making sure that the information there is 100% accurate. They would have written what is there for a good reason. Also, maybe they want to be slightly realistic, and give dates they can work to - my head won't even be cast until August, so you can see the time frames already. The last sentence is conjecture though....)
And steering this thread back on to something positive.... I popped in unannounced yesterday at RG to have a look at my Sag being rebuilt. Wow. Simply stunning. In fact so stunning I forgot to take pictures.... 
I also have to say that they have really made me feel looked after during this process. They have remembered comments in passing, and have reached out to other companies to ensure I have the car I want (and what they think can be achieved).
Obviously the test will be what it produces, and the bill.... But damn, it's a good looking thing.
I also have to say that they have really made me feel looked after during this process. They have remembered comments in passing, and have reached out to other companies to ensure I have the car I want (and what they think can be achieved).
Obviously the test will be what it produces, and the bill.... But damn, it's a good looking thing.
JR said:
From what I can gather this is a fair summary of what the head is. What people used to call blue printing.
(I also tend to think that DA may have a point about the airflow characteristics but guess that doesn't sound as good as a cc increase so it gets glossed over a lot.)
Yes and no to the first paragraph - from what I understand, blueprinting was for the entire engine, rather than just the head.(I also tend to think that DA may have a point about the airflow characteristics but guess that doesn't sound as good as a cc increase so it gets glossed over a lot.)
For the second, whilst some people think there is 'no replacement for displacement', others can look at a different path. This is why the headline power figure bandied around by Racing Green significantly 'beats' Powers figures*. I have driven both, and put my money to RG - but you pays your money....
Finally (and this isn't aimed directly at you JR), but why are so many people such Power fanbois? Why can't they get their head around the fact that another company (which has a 'funny' relationship with Dom), wants to go another way? Why do people feel the need to run down a product that they haven't tested or driven, when the company in question is doing something we all want - keeping TVR alive. Time to stop drinking from the poisoned chalice chaps...
(* Disclaimer: RG still haven't completed their work to get the magic figure, and we're still awaiting a comparable shoot-out on the same rolling road, on the same day, between each of the products).
dpd3047 said:
So What i want to know is how they blue printed the engine without any blue prints?
I was trying to remember who you were, and why you always crop up ready to pour scorn on RG.Can you please stop? It's just not dignified. Deal with it, and move on - it just can't be healthy. You and I know exactly what I'm talking about.
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