Rebuild Time....
Discussion
Ok, so the 3.6 engine in my T350 is knocking at the bottom end and needs a rebuild of some sort. The car has literally just been and had a 12k service too, all shimmed up nicely and running a treat. I went for a little thrash and it seems a few 7500rpm runs have ovalled a rod, most likely Indian.
My engine has been rebuilt by previous owner of unknown origin. I think it was DIY which I was fine with but its come unstuck.
I've been assessing my plans and have decided on the following for various reasons. A drive in drive out option for a 4.3/4.5 doesn't give me the kit per quid Im looking for, so Im going to go the DIY engine build route keeping the original crank which I understand are heat treated as standard and are pretty hardy.
Ive purchased a used 4.0l block and plan to refresh with forged H beam rods and new bearings all round. Then have my engine taken out and sold on to fund the overall build cost.
Then I can fit my perfectly good head to the 4.0l and refit, using a 4.0l ecu chip from powers.
I've always enjoyed getting oily with cars and is part of the attraction to the tvr, I've rebuilt a few engines over the years so feel comfortable in my own skills. So along with the help of even more knowledgable close friends all should be fine.
This should take most of the winter and be ready for next year and will try to document it as best I can.
Wish me luck!
Paul
My engine has been rebuilt by previous owner of unknown origin. I think it was DIY which I was fine with but its come unstuck.
I've been assessing my plans and have decided on the following for various reasons. A drive in drive out option for a 4.3/4.5 doesn't give me the kit per quid Im looking for, so Im going to go the DIY engine build route keeping the original crank which I understand are heat treated as standard and are pretty hardy.
Ive purchased a used 4.0l block and plan to refresh with forged H beam rods and new bearings all round. Then have my engine taken out and sold on to fund the overall build cost.
Then I can fit my perfectly good head to the 4.0l and refit, using a 4.0l ecu chip from powers.
I've always enjoyed getting oily with cars and is part of the attraction to the tvr, I've rebuilt a few engines over the years so feel comfortable in my own skills. So along with the help of even more knowledgable close friends all should be fine.
This should take most of the winter and be ready for next year and will try to document it as best I can.
Wish me luck!
Paul
Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 20:40
Very true matey, but it'd be nigh on the same price and id like a spare block to play with.
Saying that, my block is noted as having had the "modified oil ways" at its previous rebuild whatever that involves so maybe it is an option to swap everything into my block.
Are 3.6 and 4.0 pistons identical?
p.s Enjoyed reading your rebuild thread!
Saying that, my block is noted as having had the "modified oil ways" at its previous rebuild whatever that involves so maybe it is an option to swap everything into my block.
Are 3.6 and 4.0 pistons identical?
p.s Enjoyed reading your rebuild thread!
So here we go.
Picked up a 2nd hand 4.0l block, with the intention of fitting H-beam rods, lightened and balanced crank and reusing original 4.0l Pistons.
I've stripped out one piston to see what rods were in it, and I'm thinking these are the later Linton rods as the have the TVR logo on them?
Anyway, a few pics so far....
Just gonna get the Pistons and rods out, split them and get the crank out.
Whole thing a good clean and speak to Jason at str8six about what the "oil way" mods entails as I'm guessing this year 2000 block doesn't have them.
I have pullers for the remaining sprockets in the top left but they don't seem to pull?
Picked up a 2nd hand 4.0l block, with the intention of fitting H-beam rods, lightened and balanced crank and reusing original 4.0l Pistons.
I've stripped out one piston to see what rods were in it, and I'm thinking these are the later Linton rods as the have the TVR logo on them?
Anyway, a few pics so far....
Just gonna get the Pistons and rods out, split them and get the crank out.
Whole thing a good clean and speak to Jason at str8six about what the "oil way" mods entails as I'm guessing this year 2000 block doesn't have them.
I have pullers for the remaining sprockets in the top left but they don't seem to pull?
Edited by Willfin on Tuesday 31st January 10:00
The engine strip is now complete. Pulled out all the rods and pistons. Crank end float was minimal too!
I'll have the block crated up and sent probably to powers for new top hat liners and a clean up.
The crank, flywheel, clutch cover, and damper are going for a lighten and balance somewhere, along with pistons and rods of unknown origin just yet. I could reuse my pistons with h beam rods but I think they are the older ones with the gudgeon pin further away from the crown. What was the difference on the later Pistons?
I could just go for a proper sorted bottom end with Carrillo rods and CP Pistons from Powers too once I've bartered with Andy for a decent price. I might ask him if he will sell the pistons from the 4.5l kit and make a 4.2l with a large bore!
Hmmm, decisions decisons!
A few pics....
I'll have the block crated up and sent probably to powers for new top hat liners and a clean up.
The crank, flywheel, clutch cover, and damper are going for a lighten and balance somewhere, along with pistons and rods of unknown origin just yet. I could reuse my pistons with h beam rods but I think they are the older ones with the gudgeon pin further away from the crown. What was the difference on the later Pistons?
I could just go for a proper sorted bottom end with Carrillo rods and CP Pistons from Powers too once I've bartered with Andy for a decent price. I might ask him if he will sell the pistons from the 4.5l kit and make a 4.2l with a large bore!
Hmmm, decisions decisons!
A few pics....
Edited by Willfin on Thursday 15th September 19:30
Edited by Willfin on Sunday 25th September 09:53
So after much deliberation on spec Ive decided to go with TVR Power. Its a slightly unusual one but for good reason!
Im going to make a 4.2l bottom end comprising of the following:
Bespoke H-Beam Rods 4.0l Spec
Bespoke pistons from the 4.5l kit to make a 4.2
Overbore with Top Hat Liners
Balanced Original Cast Crank
That way its a bit cheaper than the 4.3 as most of the cost is in the billet crank for that kit. The standard crank is decent and a broken one is very rare, so it will be balanced and that money saved on a crank can go towards the newer MBE management.
Still undecided on whether to go with the FFF2 on it which may well be a brilliant engine or not make much difference at all....
Either way, refreshed oil, water and scavenger pumps, studded head bolt kit and a simplex chain conversion.
Once run in it can have the MBE fitted.
Looking forward to having it packaged up and sent off to Powers asap.
Im going to make a 4.2l bottom end comprising of the following:
Bespoke H-Beam Rods 4.0l Spec
Bespoke pistons from the 4.5l kit to make a 4.2
Overbore with Top Hat Liners
Balanced Original Cast Crank
That way its a bit cheaper than the 4.3 as most of the cost is in the billet crank for that kit. The standard crank is decent and a broken one is very rare, so it will be balanced and that money saved on a crank can go towards the newer MBE management.
Still undecided on whether to go with the FFF2 on it which may well be a brilliant engine or not make much difference at all....
Either way, refreshed oil, water and scavenger pumps, studded head bolt kit and a simplex chain conversion.
Once run in it can have the MBE fitted.
Looking forward to having it packaged up and sent off to Powers asap.
Edited by Willfin on Sunday 25th September 09:54
Edited by Willfin on Sunday 25th September 09:54
duff-man said:
If you dont mind me asking how much cheaper roughly is the 4.2 going to be compared to the 4.3?
Are you keeping the standard MBE or going for the newer one with knock etc?
The pistons and rods are about £2000 plus vat, whereas the 4.3 stroker kit is 3k plus vat so about 1k cheaper. The billet crank in the 4.3 is a lovely piece of kit, but I wanted to keep funds for the mbe.Are you keeping the standard MBE or going for the newer one with knock etc?
Not quite as much capacity but as i was having new top hatliners and wanted forged pistons for the 4.0l it seemed worthwhile getting the extra 175cc or so.
Im keeping the standard ecu for running in, but when completed it will be getting the new mbe at powers.
The block, crank, flywheel etc are being palleted up wednesday this week so should be with Powers in a week or so. Once all machine work is done and pistons/rods manufactured I'll crack on with the build!
Edited by Willfin on Sunday 25th September 09:55
Yes the 4.3 is stroked using standard Pistons which, as long as they have moly coated skirts, are more than up to the job.
I'm wanting a forged bottom end and with having the liners done it made more sense to just buy the bigger bore pistons!
It's been a slow week, although I've visited the car at Hexham and the old engine is now out. Slack on piston 3 at TDC indicates either a stretched little end or worn bigend. Either way the bottom end needs replaced.
The head was a little more interesting, with evidence of some porting having been done previously. Unfortunately it looks like it has the original bronz valve guides which are known to wear quite quickly. That, and the unknown origin/quality of the cams and followers has me wanting to invest the money into an FFF2 head instead of just refurbing the original as cost wise its not a huge difference.
I'm taking the bare 4.0l block and crank etc over to Hexham for the guys to pallet up and send to Powers on my behalf. So hopefully returned and ready for build assembly before christmas.
I'm wanting a forged bottom end and with having the liners done it made more sense to just buy the bigger bore pistons!
It's been a slow week, although I've visited the car at Hexham and the old engine is now out. Slack on piston 3 at TDC indicates either a stretched little end or worn bigend. Either way the bottom end needs replaced.
The head was a little more interesting, with evidence of some porting having been done previously. Unfortunately it looks like it has the original bronz valve guides which are known to wear quite quickly. That, and the unknown origin/quality of the cams and followers has me wanting to invest the money into an FFF2 head instead of just refurbing the original as cost wise its not a huge difference.
I'm taking the bare 4.0l block and crank etc over to Hexham for the guys to pallet up and send to Powers on my behalf. So hopefully returned and ready for build assembly before christmas.
Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 20:46
Not a lot of progress recently, but the engine work by Powers should ship next week.
I'll be self assembling the engine which I'm looking forward to a lot.
However, there are a couple of tools I need but would prefer not to have to buy for the 5 minutes that I need them.
So does anyone have a rod stretch bolt gauge and timing wheel I could borrow? Postage paid obviously!
Thanks
I'll be self assembling the engine which I'm looking forward to a lot.
However, there are a couple of tools I need but would prefer not to have to buy for the 5 minutes that I need them.
So does anyone have a rod stretch bolt gauge and timing wheel I could borrow? Postage paid obviously!
Thanks
Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 20:48
Unfortunately not.
The block I bought from a certain 2nd hand company in the north east turned out to be a duffer, only finding that out once Dom had done the top hat liners and a dummy build. An expensive mistake. Only the 4.0l crank has been of any use.
I sent dom my knackered 3.6 block out of my car, and he has stripped it down ready for machine work and shipping next week hopefully. Top man.
Got everything primed in the garage ready to complete the engine over the Xmas break.
Nice Xmas present hopefully!
The block I bought from a certain 2nd hand company in the north east turned out to be a duffer, only finding that out once Dom had done the top hat liners and a dummy build. An expensive mistake. Only the 4.0l crank has been of any use.
I sent dom my knackered 3.6 block out of my car, and he has stripped it down ready for machine work and shipping next week hopefully. Top man.
Got everything primed in the garage ready to complete the engine over the Xmas break.
Nice Xmas present hopefully!
Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 20:49
The block, once cleaned and with new top hats, was found to have a main bearing out of line and a lip on the main cap bearing face so the crank was very tight once bolted down and wouldn't have lasted long.
I'll build a table or look to have it repaired somehow, would be an expensive table!
Bottom end and all the goodies are due back next week and then I can get started although I'll have to pause for a hospital visit soon after! I do have the FFF2 head but haven't unpacked it yet as I need to clean the garage so it's über clean ready for the build!
I'll build a table or look to have it repaired somehow, would be an expensive table!
Bottom end and all the goodies are due back next week and then I can get started although I'll have to pause for a hospital visit soon after! I do have the FFF2 head but haven't unpacked it yet as I need to clean the garage so it's über clean ready for the build!
Yeah it will be a FFF2 and 4.2, I will do the run in on the standard eco with a chip and then have the uprated mbe installed.
A hone of the crankshaft main caps is possible, but it was just easier to send Dom my other block. Opportunity to repair and sell on if of any interest to anyone.
A hone of the crankshaft main caps is possible, but it was just easier to send Dom my other block. Opportunity to repair and sell on if of any interest to anyone.
Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 20:58
So the block has arrived from Powers on a saturday delivery, all packed impeccably and ready to go for the build.
Having uncovered everything, I discovered Dom had progressed a bit further than a dummy build and fitted the pistons, crank et al, much to my satisfaction! It wasn't the original intention but happy for him to help my cause!
Anyhow, Ive now got the engine mounted on the engine stand in the garage and ready to tick my way through large list of jobs. Ive got a varley manual which is a good reference document to look at for torque values etc.
All tools in hand ready to go!
Three assembly pics at Powers.
Back home and ready for full assembly.
Lovely forged rods.
Sparkly clean sump....by Powers
Racing Green baffle plate.....
Modified baffle panel to prevent debris damaging scavenge pump on TVR Speed 6 engines. This baffle panel has been carefully designed and laser cut to fit the dry sump casting accurately. Oil is directed to the scavenge pump via the mesh filtered centre vanes. This baffle panel will prevent serious damage to the scavenge pump and sump casting in the event of a mechanical failure in the engine.
Aux shaft bearing ready for driving home.
Tomorrow should have the aux shaft installed and scavenge pump checked, installed into the sump and sump fitted!
Having uncovered everything, I discovered Dom had progressed a bit further than a dummy build and fitted the pistons, crank et al, much to my satisfaction! It wasn't the original intention but happy for him to help my cause!
Anyhow, Ive now got the engine mounted on the engine stand in the garage and ready to tick my way through large list of jobs. Ive got a varley manual which is a good reference document to look at for torque values etc.
All tools in hand ready to go!
Three assembly pics at Powers.
Back home and ready for full assembly.
Lovely forged rods.
Sparkly clean sump....by Powers
Racing Green baffle plate.....
Modified baffle panel to prevent debris damaging scavenge pump on TVR Speed 6 engines. This baffle panel has been carefully designed and laser cut to fit the dry sump casting accurately. Oil is directed to the scavenge pump via the mesh filtered centre vanes. This baffle panel will prevent serious damage to the scavenge pump and sump casting in the event of a mechanical failure in the engine.
Aux shaft bearing ready for driving home.
Tomorrow should have the aux shaft installed and scavenge pump checked, installed into the sump and sump fitted!
Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 23:01
Great finish that Matti.
The block was cleaned and painted at Powers by Dom so not sure what they used, but sure happy with the result anyway!
I've managed to get in the garage and finish off a couple of small jobs.
Auxiliary shaft and primary chain guides now installed.
Sump sealed (now redone to timing cover face) and installed along with refurbished scavenger pump.
Next up is installing the half time bearing with the roller bearing and oil feed. Then water and oil pumps and sprockets etc.
Hopefully sorted next week!
The block was cleaned and painted at Powers by Dom so not sure what they used, but sure happy with the result anyway!
I've managed to get in the garage and finish off a couple of small jobs.
Auxiliary shaft and primary chain guides now installed.
Sump sealed (now redone to timing cover face) and installed along with refurbished scavenger pump.
Next up is installing the half time bearing with the roller bearing and oil feed. Then water and oil pumps and sprockets etc.
Hopefully sorted next week!
Edited by Willfin on Tuesday 31st January 10:20
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