Bus lane question.
Discussion
Thought I might run this one past you lot on here.
This week I was on a bus. Yes hand in my PH pass I know but in my defence it was a park and ride bus into Worcester.
So the bus cannot make progress down the bus lane because of an old dear pedalling her cycle oh... so... sloooowly.
The bus lane is only wide enough for the bus, just, and there is queuing traffic moving about as quickly as the cycle on the right.
Bus is sitting about a cycle length off this old dear's rear wheel.
Bus stops to let someone off and pick another up. By the time it sets off the old dear is some way ahead even at her pace.
There is a Clio in the car lane looking to turn left ahead and is signalling. Due to traffic Clio can't get ahead of cyclist so is patiently trickling along and is clearly going to move into the short bit of road for traffic turning left. All the time he is signalling left and it's clear by his road positioning what he intends to do.
Matey driving the bus is going to have none of it and at the point that the Clio really should have moved left he chose discretion and stopped to wait for the bus to very slowly barge his way up his nearside back on the cyclist's rear tyre.
My gut reaction was that this was a particularly duff display by the bus and that it was lucky Clio was looking in mirrors.
If there had been a collision whose fault?
Any other thoughts?
This week I was on a bus. Yes hand in my PH pass I know but in my defence it was a park and ride bus into Worcester.
So the bus cannot make progress down the bus lane because of an old dear pedalling her cycle oh... so... sloooowly.
The bus lane is only wide enough for the bus, just, and there is queuing traffic moving about as quickly as the cycle on the right.
Bus is sitting about a cycle length off this old dear's rear wheel.
Bus stops to let someone off and pick another up. By the time it sets off the old dear is some way ahead even at her pace.
There is a Clio in the car lane looking to turn left ahead and is signalling. Due to traffic Clio can't get ahead of cyclist so is patiently trickling along and is clearly going to move into the short bit of road for traffic turning left. All the time he is signalling left and it's clear by his road positioning what he intends to do.
Matey driving the bus is going to have none of it and at the point that the Clio really should have moved left he chose discretion and stopped to wait for the bus to very slowly barge his way up his nearside back on the cyclist's rear tyre.
My gut reaction was that this was a particularly duff display by the bus and that it was lucky Clio was looking in mirrors.
If there had been a collision whose fault?
Any other thoughts?
To answer the questions raised.
The cyclist was permitted to use the bus lane.
As to what the bus driver could have done. He could see, even I as a passenger could see, he wasn't going to get past the cyclist until well beyond the junction when it all opens up a bit. Earlier on he had being trying to bully a bit of space to his right to make a very close overtake. It was obvious what the Clio wished to do. Imo what I would have done is permit the Clio to change lanes by hanging back and giving him time and space then caught the cyclist up and overtaken her at exactly the same point as he actually did.
Agree that if the Clio had changed lanes with the bus in close proximity they would have been in the wrong.
Obviously we cannot know what was in the mind of the Clio driver but it certainly seemed as if they chose not to change lanes when physically, technically and probably legally could have done simply out of self preservation against a bully in a bigger vehicle.
Possibly being too harsh as driving a bus up and down that road for an entire working day would get on my wires too. But behaviour over the line imho.
Just posted the question in here to keep it away from the idiots in other forums and get sensible views really.
The cyclist was permitted to use the bus lane.
As to what the bus driver could have done. He could see, even I as a passenger could see, he wasn't going to get past the cyclist until well beyond the junction when it all opens up a bit. Earlier on he had being trying to bully a bit of space to his right to make a very close overtake. It was obvious what the Clio wished to do. Imo what I would have done is permit the Clio to change lanes by hanging back and giving him time and space then caught the cyclist up and overtaken her at exactly the same point as he actually did.
Agree that if the Clio had changed lanes with the bus in close proximity they would have been in the wrong.
Obviously we cannot know what was in the mind of the Clio driver but it certainly seemed as if they chose not to change lanes when physically, technically and probably legally could have done simply out of self preservation against a bully in a bigger vehicle.
Possibly being too harsh as driving a bus up and down that road for an entire working day would get on my wires too. But behaviour over the line imho.
Just posted the question in here to keep it away from the idiots in other forums and get sensible views really.
Yep, the route I'm talking about is Perdiswell to Bus station, the bus lane starts out as 24/7 and there is a set of traffic lights near to the entrance to the sports grounds/health centre. If the bus is in the lane and it's dedicated lights are on red they tend to use might is right to leave the bus lane and carry on through the lights for other traffic.
After the A38/A449 lights the bus lane is timed, and is not continuous. Sometimes there is a short bit of lane before the junction, but usually the solid white line bordering the bus lane ends right on the junction itself, so technically one has to make a very sharp turn left at 90 degrees across the lane.
To answer a couple of earlier questions, Clio started indicating while the bus was a good way back. I'd guess about 5+ bus lengths, say 50m? The differential speed was quite low as the available width is quite narrow when vehicles queuing on the right.
Normally would give some street view images but google seems to have updated things and it's a complete dog's breakfast.
After the A38/A449 lights the bus lane is timed, and is not continuous. Sometimes there is a short bit of lane before the junction, but usually the solid white line bordering the bus lane ends right on the junction itself, so technically one has to make a very sharp turn left at 90 degrees across the lane.
To answer a couple of earlier questions, Clio started indicating while the bus was a good way back. I'd guess about 5+ bus lengths, say 50m? The differential speed was quite low as the available width is quite narrow when vehicles queuing on the right.
Normally would give some street view images but google seems to have updated things and it's a complete dog's breakfast.
7db said:
Did the bus lane end with a giveway line against the bus?
On that junction no. Looking at it again the continuous bus lane line just ends. The tarmac then has no lane markings. Other side of the junction there is an angled dotted line for across from the kerb to the restart of the continuous line.davepoth said:
FiF said:
7db said:
Did the bus lane end with a giveway line against the bus?
On that junction no. Looking at it again the continuous bus lane line just ends. The tarmac then has no lane markings. Other side of the junction there is an angled dotted line for across from the kerb to the restart of the continuous line.If you look at Traffic Signs manual chapter 5 Road Markings Diagram 17-1 on page 103 link to pdf scroll to page you will find the diagram for how bus lanes should be marked near to junctions.
Attempts to upload a screen grab, here goes...
Wow, great success.
It seems that for most of the junctions they are painted in the arrangement as defined on the left hand side of the image for junction with one way road joining from the left, regardless of whether the joining road is two way, one way out, or one way in.
Here is a link to a street view of one of the junctions link
It was quite deliberate to my observation. As written earlier if I had been the bus driver apart from not trying to take tread off the back tyre of the cycle it would have been easier to hold back let the Clio turn left as it was absolutely clear that was the intention. Then overtaken the cyclist later on when the bus lane widens at another junction and approaches some parking spaces. It would have resulted in overtaking the cyclist at exactly the same point.
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