Tell me like it is!

[JumboBeef]

I have uploaded a bit of web cam footage (first attempt, I hope it works!)

I'm looking for honest opinions on a near(ish) miss. I felt at the time I was in the right, and would welcome other people's views.

Two lane NSL DC, travelling at about 70 on the GPS (on cruise). Ahead there were other vehicles in lane 1 and a car pulling out onto the carriageway into lane 1, so I moved over into lane 2. Ahead of it was a van and ahead of that was a crane (with flashing lights). The crane was doing about 30ish (but this wasn't apparent before the incident, although the flashing lights did warn it was a possible hazard).

The van indicated right but didn't pull out into lane 2 as, I assume, he could see it wasn't safe to do so and he was braking as he approached the crane. I think the car was accelerating up to speed and not really looking forward and was caught out by the van braking and so pulled out in front of me rather than hit his own brakes, forcing me to brake hard and drop the speed from about 70 to about 40.

I'll take any criticism like a man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRAzgyRGelQ

Just to clarify, at no time (until after I had safely passed the crane) did I accelerate although the video looks like I did as I approach the crane.

[JumboBeef]

Thanks for the replies.

I am an advanced driver (Paramedic). My mindset at work is to use reflective practice for incidences and I extend this to my personal life. In this incident I wanted to know if there was anything I could have done differently.

The dashcam has a wide angle lens, so things were a lot closer than they look in the video.

I was on cruise but as I approached this hazard I did indeed have my foot over the brakes just in case. Nothing close behind me.

So my options were:

1/ Go faster (no one I think is going to say that would have been a good idea!)
2/ Stay the same speed
3/ Slow down.

My theory for staying the same speed was the traffic ahead could/should/would see I was approaching at a speed higher than them and so stay in lane 1. It worked for the van. I wasn't going to flash my lights to warn of my approach as this might have been misunderstood as to come on out.

Slow down. If you watch the video it is about 2 second from when the car joins lane 1 to him pulling out into lane 2. What I was hoping would happen was he would see it wasn't safe to pull out, cancel his indicator and wait until I'd gone past. If I have slowed down, and he had seen that, he might/would have taken that as an indication to pull out.

For me to slow down enough for him to come safely out would have meant me slowing from 70 to 40 in a few seconds: heavy braking: and then of course he might have stayed in lane 1 which would have confused the situation.

Finally, the main bean flash. Forgive me for being human, I did want the other driver to know of the danger of what he just did. And he was a knob!

[JumboBeef]

ORD said:

So why not just ease off and allow him across instead of ploughing on and becoming involved in an "incident"?

Can I just remind folks that I was doing 70, the speed limit for the road, and so was everyone else (apart from the crane, van and car).

So for me to "ease off" I would have had to drop at least 30mph and that is not "easing off", it is a decent amount of braking (as possibly more, I passed the crane at 40mph and I was going quite a bit quicker than him, so maybe I would have had to drop from 70 to under 30 to match the crane, a very heavy braking manoeuvre).

If I have eased off say 10mph then he would have (IMHO) being more likely to pull out in front of me, which would still have meant heavy braking.

Also, I don't think it is fair to say it was "obvious" that he was going to pull out into lane 2. Many many people join DCs/motorways and slow to the speed of the traffic on lane 1 until it is safe to pull out into lane 2.

Indicators mean "I would like to come out" not "I'm coming out, ready or not". There are many good drivers (like the van who stayed in lane 1). However, I know we have to accept some drivers haven't got a clue.......

I'm sitting here thinking I could have eased off a bit in the last two seconds before he pulled out............but what if he was timing his move out into lane 2 so he'd move over just as I went past, in which case me slowing might have meant he would have pulled out before I had cleared him?

[JumboBeef]

TooMany2cvs said:

JumboBeef said:

Can I just remind folks that I was doing 70, the speed limit for the road, and so was everyone else (apart from the crane, van and car).

That's nice, dear.

Still, I think we're getting an insight into the mindset that caused the situation...

mmmm. So, are we all to drop to 30mph on a motorway/DC whenever we see a slow moving vehicle in a lane to the left of us? I'm not sure what your point it.....?

[JumboBeef]

PS: 70 is normally completely safe for this road. It has been drive a lot quicker than that too, completely safely. The point here is if staying at 70, dropping "a bit" or braking to match the crane's speed was the safest option.

[JumboBeef]

Can I ask those who have said I should have slowed, to what speed?

Surely, if I was still going faster than the crane, van and car then I still could not have let them out safely without heavy braking.

I'll admit, some of these comments are confusing me!

[JumboBeef]

TooMany2cvs said:

And that an alert driver might think this possibility could actually trump "But 70mph is legal..."

I see your point. But I (as others do) know that the safest top speed on a straight bit of road could be anything from 10mph to 110mph depending on hazards.

The crane was a hazard. It was well lit. My biggest question is would others here who have said slow down, would they have eased off all the way down to 30mph (ish) to safely let that car out?

[JumboBeef]

TooMany2cvs said:

And that an alert driver might think this possibility could actually trump

To be fair, I did. And so I braked and missed him.

(Yes I flashed the bugger, so hang me).

[JumboBeef]

RobM77 said:

JumboBeef said:

PS: 70 is normally completely safe for this road. It has been drive a lot quicker than that too, completely safely. The point here is if staying at 70, dropping "a bit" or braking to match the crane's speed was the safest option.

I've just watched this again and I think the main point worth making is that the 1 series stays indicating throughout and actually crosses the lane markings 27 seconds into the clip, whereas it doesn't appear that you start braking properly until about 29.5/30 seconds. Even if we ignore his indication, that's a huge reaction time to the 1 series changing lanes and that has a number of explanations:

a) The video isn't putting across your speed and braking accurately due to it being dark, the wide angle lens etc.

b) Your reaction times are very slow.

c) You were on cruise and it took that time to get your foot onto the brake.

d) You were trying to scare the guy and/or make a point.

I'm not going to be presumptuous by saying which of the above occurred, but those are the possibilities as far as I see it. We can logically remove some of the above though - you say that you were covering the brake, so that removes c) and it also removes most of the reasons behind b) too. We're then left with a and d. I think some posters are assuming d, thus their reaction above. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Good post.

Can I add e) only slowing enough to avoid an accident and not putting my passenger through the windscreen....?

I did brake as soon as he moved out. My reactions are "good" (I'm not an F1 driver but I do have the experience of driving at speed because of my job).

I would say 90% for a), 9% for e and if I am totally honest, I'll chuck a 1% in there for d)

[JumboBeef]

waremark said:

Didn't you say you would take any criticism like a man? I haven't counted, but I get the impression that the majority of people think it would have been better to have started to slow earlier. You could have been slowing any time from 20 secs, when you can see that the BMW will either be caught behind the crane or will pull out in front of you. I don't think many people would have slowed to 30 mph or would recommend doing so, but if you were already slowing a bit and had lost a bit of speed it would have been much less dramatic when the BMW pulled out.

Would you have driven any differently if you had not been using the cruise control, for example starting to ease off?

Do you find the fact that you were at the speed limit is relevant in any way?

I'm not convinced that slowing would have been the right thing to do because, as I keep saying, it would have made it more likely the car (and maybe the van) would have pulled out, thus making me brake down to 30-40ish. Or he might have been planning to nip out just as I passed, and if I slowed that might confuse things.

Again, I've been thinking about the cruise. One advantage of the cruise was I could maintain a steady speed and yet have my foot over the brake. I could have come off the cruise, but should I, if I was going to maintain a steady speed? (and then I couldn't cover the brake as I did....)

Travelling at the speed limit is relevant as people joining expect approaching cars to be at the speed limit (ish). It's not like I was bearing down on him at 120, or bumbling along at 30 driving Miss Daisy.

[JumboBeef]

Thanks for the replies. They range from you did nothing wrong to terrible driving

I think the thing to remember here is the wide angle lens make everything look so much further away than it actually was, and gives a false impression of lots of space and lots of time to doing things.

Again people are saying I should have slowed down but if I'd slowed a bit, it would have made it more likely for him to pull out, and maybe the van as well, which I personally think may have increased uncertainty about what they should do, thus increasing the risk of a collision.

Those who say I should have slowed completely to let that car out, you do know that would have meant very heavy braking....? And if the car was waiting for me to pass, he'd have to brake as well....?

Love the criticism of my blue light driving based on 60 seconds of driving in an almost straight line I had several blue light drives yesterday and, amazingly, managed not to kill anyone

The end of the day, I was ready for the car to pull out, I avoided an accident. In hindsight I think I got it right, maybe shouldn't have flashed him, but that's a small sin really.

Edited by JumboBeef on Friday 12th February 17:31

[JumboBeef]

Yep, as I say, thanks for the comments which range from good to bad.

And as I said, now with hindsight, I feel handled it fine (apart from the flash). Again people are missing the fact that if I slowed it might have well encouraged the car out when he was going to stay.

So, cheers for the input, it has helped clarify one thing: videos from dash cams can be very misleading with regard to speed and distance.