Slip road merging, why is it so hard?
Discussion
Had this happen a couple of times this week already.
Driving in lane 1 along the M1 motorway at 70mph. I often come across people that match your speed on the slip road and sit alongside you, they then force their way into lane 1 not caring that you are already there and have priority over them.
I had to slam on last night for a van that did it. Flashed my lights at him and he put his window down to give a load of abuse. Do these people really think they don't have to give way to vehicles already on the motorway? Why do drivers expect you to slow down or change lane to let them merge onto the motorway?
The standard of driving on motorways in the UK is terrible. I was always taught that I should either speed up or slow down on the slip road to fit into gaps between vehicles in lane 1. I never expect people to move into lane 2 and plan accordingly.
Driving in lane 1 along the M1 motorway at 70mph. I often come across people that match your speed on the slip road and sit alongside you, they then force their way into lane 1 not caring that you are already there and have priority over them.
I had to slam on last night for a van that did it. Flashed my lights at him and he put his window down to give a load of abuse. Do these people really think they don't have to give way to vehicles already on the motorway? Why do drivers expect you to slow down or change lane to let them merge onto the motorway?
The standard of driving on motorways in the UK is terrible. I was always taught that I should either speed up or slow down on the slip road to fit into gaps between vehicles in lane 1. I never expect people to move into lane 2 and plan accordingly.
Byker28i said:
Or if theres room it's polite to spot them and move over a lane to give them plenty of room to merge in?
My fav peeve is a two lane slip road that merges to one at the end. You zipper so as to create space to join the motorway, take the outside lane, slow slightly to merge behind an oncoming lorry, and some muppet goes flying up the inside to be confronted by the lorry, that won't move...
And if there isn't room to move over?My fav peeve is a two lane slip road that merges to one at the end. You zipper so as to create space to join the motorway, take the outside lane, slow slightly to merge behind an oncoming lorry, and some muppet goes flying up the inside to be confronted by the lorry, that won't move...
The problem as well with moving over is that they often like to match your speed then in lane one and leave you stuck in lane two. Most truck drivers don't bother doing it for this exact reason.
fozzymandeus said:
So you’re saying you either:
Don’t anticipate that someone is going to come level with you at the merge
Or you
Do anticipate the issue but decide actively not to fix the issue
Why is it the job of the person who has priority to anticipate and take corrective action? The person that should be correcting by adjusting speed is the person who is joining the motorway.Don’t anticipate that someone is going to come level with you at the merge
Or you
Do anticipate the issue but decide actively not to fix the issue
The problem is that people now think that people must move over for them, and that they do not have to give way when joining a motorway or dual carriageway.
Gary C said:
had this a couple of times
Short slip road, accelerate but knob in lane one refuses to move into lane two to allow you to smoothly move into lane one.
Thing is, in L1 you have time to judge, anticipate and adjust speed & position. On some slip roads in the UK you only see the traffic speed and position quite late with limited time to view, adjust and manoeuvre especially in an underpowered car/van.
Of course its for both to anticipate, but if you get a bloody minded driver in L1 who sits at a fixed speed and isn't prepared to do their part it can cause 'issues'.
The instance with the van was an extended slip road, he had plenty of time to see me and join at an appropriate speed.Short slip road, accelerate but knob in lane one refuses to move into lane two to allow you to smoothly move into lane one.
Thing is, in L1 you have time to judge, anticipate and adjust speed & position. On some slip roads in the UK you only see the traffic speed and position quite late with limited time to view, adjust and manoeuvre especially in an underpowered car/van.
Of course its for both to anticipate, but if you get a bloody minded driver in L1 who sits at a fixed speed and isn't prepared to do their part it can cause 'issues'.
I'd be interested to know how it would go from an insurance point of view in a collision, as the person joining has failed to give way. The vehicle in lane one is not at fault.
I find this is only ever an issue in the UK. Having driven thousands of miles across Europe, merging is handled much better on the continent. Of course moving over into lane two where possible, however it is not always possible and should not be expected.
Fox- said:
Because it makes things safer for everyone and improves traffic flow. If lane 2 is empty why wouldn't you move out?
In my case, lane two was not empty. It doesn't improve traffic flow if I'm then expected to slow down in lane one for the joining vehicle. They should adjust their speed accordingly.Richard-390a0 said:
I always enjoy it when the thread doesn't go the way the O/P hoped & they keep on digging by coming back with a load of what if replies lol! 
It's not a what if. I described the situation and said that I was unable to move to lane two as others were suggesting.Personally I still think I should not have to slow down to allow people to merge, they should slow down to merge behind or speed up to merge in front. Given that I was doing 70mph, merging behind would be the sensible choice.
Nomme de Plum said:
He said it was a van which in itself means it cannot change speed rapidly and mayn't be able to accelerate because of the load.
I really do not understand drivers in Lane 1 who do not anticipate that a cars will enter from a slip road. It really is not difficult to find a space in Lane 2 for any competent driver and then can easily move back to Lane 1 when appropriate.
We do not own a Lane or particular bit of tarmac.
Maybe it is the OP that lacks competence so finds changing lanes difficult. Hence being in Lane 1.
Then they should decelerate and merge behind rather than just merge into the side of another vehicle I really do not understand drivers in Lane 1 who do not anticipate that a cars will enter from a slip road. It really is not difficult to find a space in Lane 2 for any competent driver and then can easily move back to Lane 1 when appropriate.
We do not own a Lane or particular bit of tarmac.
Maybe it is the OP that lacks competence so finds changing lanes difficult. Hence being in Lane 1.
Based on what you've said, why can't any competent driver who is joining find space in lane one to merge into? They should not rely on drivers already on the motorway to make space if they are unable to do so.
You're right in that nobody owns lanes, but certain lanes have priority over others otherwise there would be no point in road markings or give way signs. The roads would be a free for all if they didn't exist.
Wills2 said:
You're right the standard can be poor, but you're right at the centre of it, you have a duty to drive in a manner that enables the smooth and safe passage of traffic and you're not doing that, by your own admission you're blocking other cars, then slamming your brakes on whilst flashing your lights and generally being a nuisance all at motorway speeds.
Book a lesson with an advanced instructor they will explain to you where you're going wrong.
I wasn't blocking, but continuing in a lane which I had priority in. There was enough room in front and behind me for the vehicle to merge into. I flashed my lights to draw attention to the fact I was there, as they seemed pretty oblivious.Book a lesson with an advanced instructor they will explain to you where you're going wrong.
Motorway lessons should be compulsory IMO. They need to teach people lane discipline and how to merge properly (slip roads and lane closures in particular)
carlo996 said:
aturnick54 said:
The vehicle which had priority is the problem? And not the vehicle which failed to give way and almost drove into the side of another vehicle forcing them to slam on?
Are you really this daft? When you see a slip road any normal driver will move over to help the cars entering the motorway. It’s not difficult and ordinarily you’d do the same if you saw a car coming up behind another and anticipated them needing to change lane. Alternatively you could be a f
king moron and herd them into braking, and in your case stand on ceremony not wanting to let someone merge because ‘you’re the priority’. Road captains like you are a total pain in the ass, you’re devoid of common sense and just screw the flow of traffic up. Get over yourself, stop being a muppet and take some pride in your road craft. aturnick54 said:
In the last sentence, I said that I drive all across Europe. Generally in other European countries people use all the available road space and don't hog lanes.
It's nothing to do with being a road captain, if it isn't possible to move into lane two then don't just force your way out and fail to give way. You wouldn't just pull out of a T junction into the path of another car (although questionable whether some drivers would)
Caddyshack said:
Priority means that you are more important in that instance but it doesn’t mean a right to dominate the road and I think many people in cars confuse this as a "right of way’ that must be enforced over others.
It’s better to give a lift of the throttle to let them join.
Flashing lights is often mis-understood and I suspect you actually flashed in frustration but even if you didn’t they could have take it as aggressive behaviour.
Traffic joining should give way to traffic already on the motorway. In the same way that they should slow down (likely stop) at a T junction and give way to traffic on the main road. Pulling out into the path of a vehicle and forcing them to change speed or direction would result in a driving test fail and is dangerous driving. Far below the expected standard of a competent driver imo.It’s better to give a lift of the throttle to let them join.
Flashing lights is often mis-understood and I suspect you actually flashed in frustration but even if you didn’t they could have take it as aggressive behaviour.
In this case with the van, I had no choice but to brake to avoid a collision. Such a collision would likely find the van at fault (whether lane two was available or not) as the give way markings on the slip road are for the van.
carlo996 said:
Yes it does, that’s what you are. What’s laughable is your pointing out others lack of anticipation but you cannot see your own.
Clearly there was room, as there was no crash, no mass hysteria and likely you perversely enjoy the process. Otherwise, like everyone else, you’d avoid it.
What do you drive?
There was only room because I had to brake to avoid a collision. This would be a driving test fail.Clearly there was room, as there was no crash, no mass hysteria and likely you perversely enjoy the process. Otherwise, like everyone else, you’d avoid it.
What do you drive?
As I said a couple of pages back, drivers on the continent know how to merge properly. I have never experienced this poor standard of driving anywhere but the UK.
Caddyshack said:
Not noticing the car forcing you to slow could also be a fail too. You are right about the law, giving way etc but having to brake like that means you have not anticipated that stupid people think they can just pull out and a car matching your speed on a slip road are very, very likely to just pull out. I often have to remind myself not to let my Ego drive the car….as reg local says about other (stupid) drivers "they know not what they do"
If you cause another road user to change speed or direction then you will likely fail your test. Pulling out on someone or cutting them off when you do not have priority would very much result in a test failure.Edited by Caddyshack on Tuesday 16th April 20:07
I anticipate that any competent driver would either accelerate or decelerate to merge into the available gaps, not blindly follow alongside and expect other drivers to adjust their speed instead. Of course, if I can move to lane two, I do so. But unfortunately this is not always possible and should not be expected.
I never expect anybody to move into lane two when I'm joining a motorway, this allows me to anticipate where I will merge and the appropriate speed for doing so. It leaves me wondering what actually goes through some drivers heads when they are on a slip road, and how much education they've had on the correct procedure of merging.
_Hoppers said:
Where is it stated that these are give way marking?
I stand corrected that these markings explicitly mean give way. However rule 259 of the HWC states"give priority to traffic already on the motorway"
To me this suggests that at the point you are supposed to merge, you should give way to traffic already on the motorway.
DanL said:
They’re also clearly st at driving, as evidenced by the idea that they can get “stuck” in lane 2 if they move over, and their failure to anticipate or accommodate other road users by driving defensively.
If you've ever driven a HGV in this situation you'll understand what I mean. Limited to 56, drivers on the inside then sit around at the same speed. It happens all the time, hence why most HGV drivers don't bother moving over for cars anymore.t at driving, as evidenced by the idea that they can get “stuck” in lane 2 if they move over, and their failure to anticipate or accommodate other road users by driving defensively.If people wish to have a game of chicken with a truck which has priority, that's their choice. It's not a wise move.
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