5" gauge Stanier Duchess steam loco
Discussion
Just thought I'd show the latest addition to the family - a 5" gauge live steam scale replica of 46256 Sir William A Stanier FRS named after the designer. Original worked between London Euston and Glasgow 1947 - 1964
My father built this to 90% completion from works drawings and scaling off photos. He died in 2008 and so I thought I'd get someone to finish it.
Lynx model works in Mablethorpe did it - and what a result. At 7ft long it's not the easiest to move...
My father built this to 90% completion from works drawings and scaling off photos. He died in 2008 and so I thought I'd get someone to finish it.
Lynx model works in Mablethorpe did it - and what a result. At 7ft long it's not the easiest to move...
Edited by Dawg on Saturday 9th November 20:54
Never seen that photo of 46256 before. Thanks 
. It was the very last Stanier pacific to run at the end of September 1964. By December it had been cut up - it really should have been preserved, but the sheer speed that this class of loco were despached by the oxyacetylene torch was quite astonishing. A lot of other types of locos hung around in other scrapyards for at least a couple of years, however Cashmores at Great Bridge were, sadly, super efficient. By early 1965, they'd all gone apart from 3..
At first, i had the idea to finish it, and i completed the cladding with washout plugs around the firebox, however it quickly transpired that there was a lot of fiddly work which really was beyond me - especially as there were no scale drawings available..
As for running - I belong to the Wigan & District Model Engineering Society and we have an extensive track (3 1/2" and 5" gauge) at Haigh Hall. I'll be running it in the spring. It's already been hydraulic and steam tested by Lynx however I have to get this done again at the club.
Roll on March!
. It was the very last Stanier pacific to run at the end of September 1964. By December it had been cut up - it really should have been preserved, but the sheer speed that this class of loco were despached by the oxyacetylene torch was quite astonishing. A lot of other types of locos hung around in other scrapyards for at least a couple of years, however Cashmores at Great Bridge were, sadly, super efficient. By early 1965, they'd all gone apart from 3.. At first, i had the idea to finish it, and i completed the cladding with washout plugs around the firebox, however it quickly transpired that there was a lot of fiddly work which really was beyond me - especially as there were no scale drawings available..
As for running - I belong to the Wigan & District Model Engineering Society and we have an extensive track (3 1/2" and 5" gauge) at Haigh Hall. I'll be running it in the spring. It's already been hydraulic and steam tested by Lynx however I have to get this done again at the club.
Roll on March!
Edited by Dawg on Sunday 10th November 18:27
I'll get some more pics up this weekend - it's currently boxed up in my front room
Weight? Not sure, but I need at least one other (fit) person to move it. I have a portable hydraulic lift to get it into the back of my car.
My dad started this back in 1980 - it followed a 3 1/2" gauge Stanier pacific Duchess Of Hamilton and an 0-4-0 5" gauge Ajax tank loco which I still have and are about to be refurbished - I can do this at least... Anyhow, he had a massive heart attack in '84 when he was only 44 and was not in good shape after that. Two more heart attacks and a stroke hindered any progress - he completed a 5" gauge 0-4-0 saddle tank I started when I was 14.
Yes, he was a hugely talented man - at the same time he started this loco he started a Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4 in 3 1/2" gauge. He had done about 60% of that - I had to sell because I could not afford to have it completed (probably £20k's worth of work) and it was starting to deteriorate in the garage.. I'll dig out a photo..
Weight? Not sure, but I need at least one other (fit) person to move it. I have a portable hydraulic lift to get it into the back of my car.
My dad started this back in 1980 - it followed a 3 1/2" gauge Stanier pacific Duchess Of Hamilton and an 0-4-0 5" gauge Ajax tank loco which I still have and are about to be refurbished - I can do this at least... Anyhow, he had a massive heart attack in '84 when he was only 44 and was not in good shape after that. Two more heart attacks and a stroke hindered any progress - he completed a 5" gauge 0-4-0 saddle tank I started when I was 14.
Yes, he was a hugely talented man - at the same time he started this loco he started a Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4 in 3 1/2" gauge. He had done about 60% of that - I had to sell because I could not afford to have it completed (probably £20k's worth of work) and it was starting to deteriorate in the garage.. I'll dig out a photo..
Yes - I've seen a DVD of the Challenger. It's still owned by Union Pacific..
Here's another loco; a 'Sweet Pea' which is considered an ideal 'starter' loco. I started it when I was 14 & built it up to rolling chassis. It suddenly became too difficult when making the cylinders and being 14/15 I just wanted to hang out with mates.. It stood for years like that..
Dad finished it in 2004 and ran it 2 or 3 times only - he hated it; never liked the narrow gauge locos and the unconventional firebox on this type
This has also been sold, partly funding the Duchess
Here's another loco; a 'Sweet Pea' which is considered an ideal 'starter' loco. I started it when I was 14 & built it up to rolling chassis. It suddenly became too difficult when making the cylinders and being 14/15 I just wanted to hang out with mates.. It stood for years like that..
Dad finished it in 2004 and ran it 2 or 3 times only - he hated it; never liked the narrow gauge locos and the unconventional firebox on this type
This has also been sold, partly funding the Duchess
I get what your saying, but I don't know about it really being more complex than the Duchess. Ok, steam pipes to power moving chassis is the trickiest part, but what some don't realise is that the Duchess is a 4 cylinder loco - all the motion that you can see on either side powered by two cylinders is also in the middle; Two sets of motion powered by another two cylinders, slung between the frames. Each with it's own lubrication.. The LMS Royal Scots and GWR King class locos were the same - a good way of compacting a lot of power into a loco limited by Victorian loading gauges..
The big boy is also 4 cylinders on a bigger scale, just stretched out on two separate chassis. Extremely powerful locos that pulled mile long trains that could only be replaced by 4 diesel units...
The big boy is also 4 cylinders on a bigger scale, just stretched out on two separate chassis. Extremely powerful locos that pulled mile long trains that could only be replaced by 4 diesel units...
Litre of milk on top to give an idea of size!
It kills me that I had to sell it - I just didn't have the £15-20k spare that it'd cost for someone to scale down the works drawings and finish it - and it was starting to deteriorate in the garage. The boiler had not really been started properly and that is where a lot of the cost lay. If my Dad had completed the boiler, I might still have it..
It kills me that I had to sell it - I just didn't have the £15-20k spare that it'd cost for someone to scale down the works drawings and finish it - and it was starting to deteriorate in the garage. The boiler had not really been started properly and that is where a lot of the cost lay. If my Dad had completed the boiler, I might still have it..
Edited by Dawg on Friday 15th November 12:16
Here are some more photos - nice Britannia btw. I'm going to have this on display in a similar manner after it's run a few times - along with my 3 1/2" Duchess Of Hamilton. I've currently got this Duchess in the spare room so light isn't great and it's on the floor so views are restricted. It's too heavy to lift on my own so that's where it's staying for the time being.
Incidentally - the fire doors were one of the last things my Dad made - we took a trip to York museum to get photos of the doors on Duchess Of Hamilton; he was interested in looking at the flip up plate that was used when running - apparently they used to drive them with the fire doors open and this plate up between shovelfuls of coal. We got photos - he then scaled drawings and built 'em.
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Incidentally - the fire doors were one of the last things my Dad made - we took a trip to York museum to get photos of the doors on Duchess Of Hamilton; he was interested in looking at the flip up plate that was used when running - apparently they used to drive them with the fire doors open and this plate up between shovelfuls of coal. We got photos - he then scaled drawings and built 'em.
[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]Edited by Dawg on Thursday 21st November 18:53
The tender was completed by my Dad back in the mid '80's - it just needed painting.
He made his own drawings for a working coal pusher scaled from works drawings - as featured on the actual tenders..
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There's also a functioning water scoop - handle on the right..
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My one niggle - tender BR emblem is a bit smaller than it should be. I can live with it though...
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He made his own drawings for a working coal pusher scaled from works drawings - as featured on the actual tenders..
[/URL]There's also a functioning water scoop - handle on the right..
[/URL]My one niggle - tender BR emblem is a bit smaller than it should be. I can live with it though...
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[/URL]Front L.H Cylinder detail
Razor11 - seeing your Britannia reminded me of a story told to me by a friend of my father called Norman Lowe - he was an incredible model engineer and a fountain of knowledge, now sadly departed.
Norman was chief pattern maker at Horwich loco works, up here in Lancashire. In the mid '60's he was walking through the repair shop and there stood a Britannia (I think it was Morning Star). Now, at Horwich, usual suspects were grubby Black 5's, 8F's Stanier 2-6-4 Tanks etc... So something the size of a Britannia was unusual.
"Why was it in"? Norman had asked - turned out that a near disaster had occurred on the Settle Carlisle line. The loco had been thundering along on a Leeds-Carlisle express somewhere near Hellifield and, as it was the mid '60's, maintenance was no longer a prime objective on BR steam locos.
The Britannia's 8ft long connecting rod that linked the centre driving wheel to the cylinder had come adrift. It fixes to a slide bar via a linkage called a crosshead which in turn is connected to the piston inside the cylinder. The slide bar had fallen off, dropping the connecting rod onto the ground, whilst still connected to the centre driving wheel. Whilst in motion, this rod ploughed repeatedly into the track & sleepers, tearing them up as it went along. The carriages, with passengers on board all derailed. Thankfully and amazingly, no one was hurt...
So Razor11 - if you run it, check your slide bar's attached to the cylinder securely
Edited by Dawg on Friday 22 November 10:17
Not a stupid question at all.
You have to fully build the loco in a bare metal state (check the Britannia out on the previous page) the boiler on completion also has to have a hydraulic pressure test
Then it has to be dismantled in big lumps - boiler off & painted, separate from cab, running boards which are also painted lined separately etc...
Most folks paint the frames and wheels before all the running gear goes on - that's what happened with mine. My Dad painted them about 10 years ago.
Then reassemble, steam test and away you go..
You have to fully build the loco in a bare metal state (check the Britannia out on the previous page) the boiler on completion also has to have a hydraulic pressure test
Then it has to be dismantled in big lumps - boiler off & painted, separate from cab, running boards which are also painted lined separately etc...
Most folks paint the frames and wheels before all the running gear goes on - that's what happened with mine. My Dad painted them about 10 years ago.
Then reassemble, steam test and away you go..
Wow! You beauty for finding that. Norman told me that story about 10 years ago so specifics after 40 years get a little mixed up. Norman definitely said it was at Horwich loco works though - at that time it would have been the closest serious engine works to Settle and I guess it must have been en-route to Crewe where the full examination was done.. I now remember him saying that there was a freight loco involved - that's where the mention of Leeds - Carlisle must have come from..
I'll be having a good read of that later - thanks chap
I'll be having a good read of that later - thanks chap
Edited by Dawg on Friday 22 November 20:30
RichB
Different folks do it different ways - my Dad used to spray them and then line. Others think that a brush finish is superior, as long as you have *everything* in place regarding best paint, best brushes, best technique... - this was brush painted by Lynx Modelworks, though the smokebox, cab roof are a matt finish suggesting they were sprayed. The guy who does it - that's his job allocation. I'm particularly impressed by his lining skills...
There's a great book I bought when I was gearing myself up to finish this engine, (and before reality kicked in)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Paint-Locomotive-Chris...
I bought one of these for lining too - my 3 1/2" gauge 46229 Duchess of Hamilton is in a sorry looking state, so i'm going to have a go at repainting next year, so it'll come in use
http://www.beugler.com/
Different folks do it different ways - my Dad used to spray them and then line. Others think that a brush finish is superior, as long as you have *everything* in place regarding best paint, best brushes, best technique... - this was brush painted by Lynx Modelworks, though the smokebox, cab roof are a matt finish suggesting they were sprayed. The guy who does it - that's his job allocation. I'm particularly impressed by his lining skills...
There's a great book I bought when I was gearing myself up to finish this engine, (and before reality kicked in)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Paint-Locomotive-Chris...
I bought one of these for lining too - my 3 1/2" gauge 46229 Duchess of Hamilton is in a sorry looking state, so i'm going to have a go at repainting next year, so it'll come in use
http://www.beugler.com/
Edited by Dawg on Friday 22 November 21:49
Indeed Simon - He'd spend hours sat in his armchair with a drawing pad and photos scaling and making drawings and then disappearing making making bits only then to discard them for a 'better' version. Problem was that he never threw away mk1,2 or 3 - so when it came to be finished, I had a bench full of bits with no idea which version was the final working piece, each one with hours of work put into it.
'Twas difficult to sort - I had to get his best friend who is also a fine model engineer to come down and look over everything bit by bit..
We got there in the end
'Twas difficult to sort - I had to get his best friend who is also a fine model engineer to come down and look over everything bit by bit..
We got there in the end
Just thought I'd post back here about what's happening with 46256
Hydraulic test passed, however steam test is being set back by small problems. I had it in steam twice - it was blowing off through the safety valves at 90psi and holding pressure.. it steams well, though we couldn't move it as the wheels had locked in place by a ring of corrosion in the inside cylinders - took a long (weeks) time to free them off.. Injectors didn't work, again because of crud inside them.
Stripped and cleaned injectors. Still didn't work. Latest is that i've Stripped and cleaned again - also the water blowdown valve is in a tricky place to access so I'm making a tool to get at it easier.
The tender hand pump water feed was plastic pipe which failed - I've replaced it with a length of copper pipe and associated fittings on both loco & tender. I'll be trying again in a week or so...
Here it is at the Wigan club track at Haigh Hall about a fortnight ago.
Hydraulic test passed, however steam test is being set back by small problems. I had it in steam twice - it was blowing off through the safety valves at 90psi and holding pressure.. it steams well, though we couldn't move it as the wheels had locked in place by a ring of corrosion in the inside cylinders - took a long (weeks) time to free them off.. Injectors didn't work, again because of crud inside them.
Stripped and cleaned injectors. Still didn't work. Latest is that i've Stripped and cleaned again - also the water blowdown valve is in a tricky place to access so I'm making a tool to get at it easier.
The tender hand pump water feed was plastic pipe which failed - I've replaced it with a length of copper pipe and associated fittings on both loco & tender. I'll be trying again in a week or so...
Here it is at the Wigan club track at Haigh Hall about a fortnight ago.
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