Updating my Tamiya Manta Ray
Discussion
So, after help on my last thread here, about what to replace my original (over 20 year old) Manta Ray with, instead I'm breathing new life into it (hopefully 
). I bought:
23 turn motor (decided against 21T in favour of a little more torque - it's supposed to be an off road buggy after all. But then motors are cheap so I may get different ones and see if I can tell!)
Basic ESC
Couple of battery sticks (NiMh is an upgrade in itself for this car ).
Also some new shock oil (original pot is Tamiya's "soft", so went with 60 grade which should be the firm end of medium, I think) and lubes. All the shocks were still full of their OE oil - no leakage at all!
So, bits ready to go:
Out with the old:
Testing the new.
The instructions weren't very clear, and it took a bit of Googling, but the ESC also supplies power to the receiver via the 3 wire plug, so the old extra connection from the MSC (straight from the battery leads) could be ditched. Also, the ESC assumes that the first signal it recieves from the controller's "speed" channel is "forward" so no need to worry about motor connection polarity
Now, the ESC was a lot smaller than I expected and clearly the bottom half was all heat sink. Strapping or sticky-padding that to a slab of plastic, deep under the shell, didn't seem like a brilliant idea. So I popped out to the shed and cut a piece off an ally heat sink I'd scavenged from an old PSU. Mounted that up on stickies, and drilled some holes for cable ties. Then spread a bit of TIM across the surafce of the heatsink (which I also had to flatten a bit).
ESC bedded down on the TIM and held forever more (a double layer of stickies under the HS gave the cable ties some "spring" to work against):
The vanes on the HS just about appear in the hole in the shell where the old resistor pack lived, so it all seems very appropriate to me:
Then tied all the wiring down:
No idea how long the batteries last, or how fast it'll go, as all I had time for tonight was a quick run up and down the patio. It was certainly nippy, and certainly not getting to full speed in the space I had I'm not sure if the ESC actually brakes the motor too, but it stops bloody well now (Maybe it's just not having to pass through the other steps on the MSC?)
Off to the park for some trail bashing at the weekend
The only thing I have noticed I'm not so sure about is that the reverse takes a moment to kick in, and longer again to allow speed to build. I'm used to just throwing this car around in either direction.....
Anyhow, it's been a fun evening's tinkering and I think I'll be looking for a new body shell (and wing!!) and maybe tyres soon.....
). I bought:23 turn motor (decided against 21T in favour of a little more torque - it's supposed to be an off road buggy after all. But then motors are cheap so I may get different ones and see if I can tell!)
Basic ESC
Couple of battery sticks (NiMh is an upgrade in itself for this car
).Also some new shock oil (original pot is Tamiya's "soft", so went with 60 grade which should be the firm end of medium, I think) and lubes. All the shocks were still full of their OE oil - no leakage at all!
So, bits ready to go:
Out with the old:
Testing the new.
The instructions weren't very clear, and it took a bit of Googling, but the ESC also supplies power to the receiver via the 3 wire plug, so the old extra connection from the MSC (straight from the battery leads) could be ditched. Also, the ESC assumes that the first signal it recieves from the controller's "speed" channel is "forward" so no need to worry about motor connection polarity
Now, the ESC was a lot smaller than I expected and clearly the bottom half was all heat sink. Strapping or sticky-padding that to a slab of plastic, deep under the shell, didn't seem like a brilliant idea. So I popped out to the shed and cut a piece off an ally heat sink I'd scavenged from an old PSU. Mounted that up on stickies, and drilled some holes for cable ties. Then spread a bit of TIM across the surafce of the heatsink (which I also had to flatten a bit).
ESC bedded down on the TIM and held forever more (a double layer of stickies under the HS gave the cable ties some "spring" to work against):
The vanes on the HS just about appear in the hole in the shell where the old resistor pack lived, so it all seems very appropriate to me:
Then tied all the wiring down:
No idea how long the batteries last, or how fast it'll go, as all I had time for tonight was a quick run up and down the patio. It was certainly nippy, and certainly not getting to full speed in the space I had
I'm not sure if the ESC actually brakes the motor too, but it stops bloody well now (Maybe it's just not having to pass through the other steps on the MSC?)Off to the park for some trail bashing at the weekend
The only thing I have noticed I'm not so sure about is that the reverse takes a moment to kick in, and longer again to allow speed to build. I'm used to just throwing this car around in either direction.....
Anyhow, it's been a fun evening's tinkering and I think I'll be looking for a new body shell (and wing!!) and maybe tyres soon.....
shortar53 said:
try hitting reverse on the stick, letting it back to neutral, then back into reverse - see if that helps.
on my piston grip remote, first press is brake, then you need to release then "reverse" again to go backwards. takes some getting used to.
I'll have a play about then, thanks on my piston grip remote, first press is brake, then you need to release then "reverse" again to go backwards. takes some getting used to.
Simond S said:
Remove the switch box from the old tamiya speed controller and fit over the new Mtroniks switch. Also worth looking at the soldering to the switch as this is the weak point on these.
Sorry, what do you mean by switch box? If it's just the on/off switch, it seems fine on the new one.... I'll not be throwing the old bits away anyway Simond S said:
The three core servo wire is also really stiff, be careful a. not to bend it back on itself where it exits the esc and also b. fix it so that it doesnt move about too much. Warming gently before install will help you get it nice and neat.
Doesn't have a retaining clip on it either, unlike the original servo plug. Was tempted to cut and solder old plug onto new wires but decided that's a job for it it turns out to actually be a problem.Simond S said:
Finally, swap out the Tamiya connectors to Deans when you have a moment.
And some Deans! Thanks to Peetbee too for the links + advice
Well, that didn't last long 
Car went really well, probably not much faster than when new, but with attitude.
Track rod popped out of one hub upright a couple of times (a spilt in it) so screwed it into the hole further in and reset the tracking.
Then glanced it against a log, and the front diff broke in half
Hey ho, guess that's what happens when you try and run a 20 year old car with 10,000 previous crashes under its belt back at "youngster" speed.
Off to look for the strongest kit I can find now...... seems a shame to not use all the new bits again....
Car went really well, probably not much faster than when new, but with attitude.
Track rod popped out of one hub upright a couple of times (a spilt in it) so screwed it into the hole further in and reset the tracking.
Then glanced it against a log, and the front diff broke in half
Hey ho, guess that's what happens when you try and run a 20 year old car with 10,000 previous crashes under its belt back at "youngster" speed.
Off to look for the strongest kit I can find now...... seems a shame to not use all the new bits again....
Right, quick update.
Missed 3 2nd hand mantas on ebay (2 went for too much, one was a better price as no electrics or tyres - which would have suited me fine - but I missed the end of the auction. Ho hum) and so hatched a plan to sort gte the car running again more or less as is.
First I got a pair of shiny aluminium hubs from ebay to replace the knackered originals:
Then, I figured, the gearbox casing is now useless, but the gearbox is a discrete part so I can mess with it and still replace it just as easily as ever if it doesn't work out. So I've opened it up, taken out all the gears, and then superglued (and taped) it back together, while filling the hole where the gears used to be with chemical metal. So now the gearbox is one solid unit, and my manta's 2wd!
Should be a nice day tomorrow, so who wants a sweepstake on what breaks next, and how long it takes?
ETA: ah ha, just managed to win some ebay bits, so I'll be able to re-re-rebuild into 4wd again
Missed 3 2nd hand mantas on ebay (2 went for too much, one was a better price as no electrics or tyres - which would have suited me fine - but I missed the end of the auction. Ho hum) and so hatched a plan to sort gte the car running again more or less as is.
First I got a pair of shiny aluminium hubs from ebay to replace the knackered originals:
Then, I figured, the gearbox casing is now useless, but the gearbox is a discrete part so I can mess with it and still replace it just as easily as ever if it doesn't work out. So I've opened it up, taken out all the gears, and then superglued (and taped) it back together, while filling the hole where the gears used to be with chemical metal. So now the gearbox is one solid unit, and my manta's 2wd!
Should be a nice day tomorrow, so who wants a sweepstake on what breaks next, and how long it takes?
ETA: ah ha, just managed to win some ebay bits, so I'll be able to re-re-rebuild into 4wd again
Edited by defblade on Saturday 22 January 13:37
Sweepstake results: 30 secs, front shock tower.
Oh well, looks like there's a couple of sets of towers in the ebay bits I won earlier, so hopefully I'll be back in business next weekend. Again.
Something new, probably by Traxxas, looking better all the time though. I'm sure the car's not that much faster than it used to be, so I don't think it's the new parts overwhelming as such, instead I think age and old use/abuse seem to be throwing me constant problems. Evertything seems to be brittle now where it used to bounce back from stuff (happens to the best of us ).
Oh well, looks like there's a couple of sets of towers in the ebay bits I won earlier, so hopefully I'll be back in business next weekend. Again.
Something new, probably by Traxxas, looking better all the time though. I'm sure the car's not that much faster than it used to be, so I don't think it's the new parts overwhelming as such, instead I think age and old use/abuse seem to be throwing me constant problems. Evertything seems to be brittle now where it used to bounce back from stuff (happens to the best of us
). Here we go again.....
ebay bits arrived, bits found in shed to make extra strong bumper.
Metal shock towers from ebay:
And gear box, so back to 4WD
And now the Mad Max bumper - designed to protect the wheels, and transfer some impact force into the chassis tub instead of through the gearbox. I apologise for my poor metal working skills - done in a dimly lit shed on a very cold night with a nibbler, an angle grinder and some approximate guesswork
This really is the last money I'm spending on this now.... if it still breaks, and I've not got bits to fix it, it'll be time for a new toy!
ebay bits arrived, bits found in shed to make extra strong bumper.
Metal shock towers from ebay:
And gear box, so back to 4WD
And now the Mad Max bumper - designed to protect the wheels, and transfer some impact force into the chassis tub instead of through the gearbox. I apologise for my poor metal working skills - done in a dimly lit shed on a very cold night with a nibbler, an angle grinder and some approximate guesswork
This really is the last money I'm spending on this now.... if it still breaks, and I've not got bits to fix it, it'll be time for a new toy!
At last!
Batteries lasted about 20 minutes each, ran it up and down hills, over jumps, into rocks, off the side of ramps, all sorts, far more than's broken it so far...... no problems
Now I can't really spend money on a new toy
(Although my little lass said "yes you can dad, then we can have races!" Good girl!)
Batteries lasted about 20 minutes each, ran it up and down hills, over jumps, into rocks, off the side of ramps, all sorts, far more than's broken it so far...... no problems
Now I can't really spend money on a new toy
(Although my little lass said "yes you can dad, then we can have races!" Good girl!)
Wow! Year-on update....
Ran it a good few times until smoke started coming out of the motor on a bike-ramp-obsticle thing and then it went back in the cupboard for a while.
Bought 2 new motors - 35t and 27t this time - it could still stand to lose some top end and I burnt the last one out going up a big ramp, after all.
So I fitted the 35t, while noticing one of the screws holding the motor mounting plate was just turning now.
Run time approx 15 seconds.... mounting plate now has 2 cracked posts and the pinion's got some new and even more interesting wear than before
So, off to the land of cheap alloy bits (aka Hong Kong) and I now have coming a metal mounting plate, a new pinion (22 teeth, up from 21, which should go further into less top end and more torque if I've got it the right way round. 21s were out of stock, anyway...) and, while I was there and following comments on other forums, a more solid prop shaft (the wire one can twist with more power it seems and I noticed mine looks a little bowed...) and a new set of (metal) bits to replace the bodge up I made of the steering joints when the plastic one went many years ago
And this is
absolutely
finally
definately
the last I'm spending on this car!
Until it breaks again
Ran it a good few times until smoke started coming out of the motor on a bike-ramp-obsticle thing and then it went back in the cupboard for a while.
Bought 2 new motors - 35t and 27t this time - it could still stand to lose some top end and I burnt the last one out going up a big ramp, after all.
So I fitted the 35t, while noticing one of the screws holding the motor mounting plate was just turning now.
Run time approx 15 seconds.... mounting plate now has 2 cracked posts and the pinion's got some new and even more interesting wear than before
So, off to the land of cheap alloy bits (aka Hong Kong) and I now have coming a metal mounting plate, a new pinion (22 teeth, up from 21, which should go further into less top end and more torque if I've got it the right way round. 21s were out of stock, anyway...) and, while I was there and following comments on other forums, a more solid prop shaft (the wire one can twist with more power it seems and I noticed mine looks a little bowed...) and a new set of (metal) bits to replace the bodge up I made of the steering joints when the plastic one went many years ago
And this is
absolutely
finally
definately
the last I'm spending on this car!
Until it breaks again
wacattack said:
Wow, I admire your dedication, but I think you need to keep it as a shelf car and get yourself something newer. The amount of money you have spent on it, you could have got a half decent ready to run car where spares are readily available.
Ah, well, there's a few things here.....I never spend as much as a "decent" new car at once - £20 to £40 at a time is affordable, a couple of hundred or more starts to look like a fair bit.
And I'll break the new one, too
And it'll never be a shelf car (although it spends time as a cupboard-under-the-stairs-broken-car).... if I ever give up and buy new, this'll be on ebay for someone else to keep running/canabalise.
And although I moan, I quite enjoy fixing it - it's the wait for the parts that kills me
Frankly though, I am running out of upgradable bits for it, so this time around it's pretty much either going to reach the point where it's strong enough to last properly, or I will give up (and by "give up" I mean use all the spares I've got already to try and keep it going, then give up). Did my tax return today and will have a small refund....
Ok, shiny bits arrived from Hong Kong a couple of days ago:
Which means the motor is now mounted so it'll not fall off again in a hurry (obviously, shiny new pinion is well hidden at this point and I really must clean this car properly sometime....
)
The steering linkage broke many many moons ago (maybe 10 years??) and I knocked up a bit of, IIRC, ceiling-light hanging bracket to replace it...
...this has worked well, but the link rod to the offside has worn quite a slot for itself and so the wheels tend not to point exactly where I wanted a lot of the time... so now replaced with shiny (and accurate) blue ally; it has a bit more throw than both my version and the original tamiya one, which has required a #cough# small mod to the side of the chassis for clearance - but massively improved all aspects of steering. Also note big shiny ally bar replacing coat hanger driveshaft so hopefully that won't be a weak point either.
Not been for a proper bash yet, but it's survived resetting the tracking followed by a few runs and j-turns up and down the patio, which is 5 or 10 minutes longer than it lasted with this motor last run out! Full rock strewn run at the weekend if the weather's ok.... might try for some video too before I destroy it forever
Which means the motor is now mounted so it'll not fall off again in a hurry (obviously, shiny new pinion is well hidden at this point and I really must clean this car properly sometime....
)The steering linkage broke many many moons ago (maybe 10 years??) and I knocked up a bit of, IIRC, ceiling-light hanging bracket to replace it...
...this has worked well, but the link rod to the offside has worn quite a slot for itself and so the wheels tend not to point exactly where I wanted a lot of the time... so now replaced with shiny (and accurate) blue ally; it has a bit more throw than both my version and the original tamiya one, which has required a #cough# small mod to the side of the chassis for clearance - but massively improved all aspects of steering. Also note big shiny ally bar replacing coat hanger driveshaft so hopefully that won't be a weak point either.
Not been for a proper bash yet, but it's survived resetting the tracking followed by a few runs and j-turns up and down the patio, which is 5 or 10 minutes longer than it lasted with this motor last run out! Full rock strewn run at the weekend if the weather's ok.... might try for some video too before I destroy it forever
Ritchie335is said:
I presume now that the diffs will be next to s
t the bed. 
Good excuse to buy the ball ones t the bed. Actually, I've got a few spares from ebay kicking around, so it won't be the end of the world. Except I've discovered that if anything in the front end goes, I'm going to have to grind my mad max bumper off
Survived 4 batteries' worth of running this weekend... but the 35 turn motor is too slow in this car. Plenty of torque but grip and ground clearance means it's not so useful. I can see how a crawler would be fun, and the Wraith might be perfect, but there's too much limitation technical work with the Manta to accept the slower top end. I'll try the 27 next....
Run it a bit with the 27 turn now... yep, just about perfect. It'll climb anything that it did with the 35 turn (where it was mostly ground-clearance/axle articulation limited anyway) but gets enough speed to be fun.
Finally got a bit of video on my phone; my 10 year old lass is doing the controlling so don't expect much control! As said, this is basically an old spoil heap with a bit of BMX/moto-x track set out - full of fist size rocks, half bricks etc, and lots of bigger rocks too. Looking at this again, might have to get some stronger springs, especially on the front shocks.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v471/defblade/RC...
Finally got a bit of video on my phone; my 10 year old lass is doing the controlling so don't expect much control! As said, this is basically an old spoil heap with a bit of BMX/moto-x track set out - full of fist size rocks, half bricks etc, and lots of bigger rocks too. Looking at this again, might have to get some stronger springs, especially on the front shocks.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v471/defblade/RC...
mattmoxon said:
Great thread
hate to say it but you have gone the wrong way with the pinion, if you want less speed and more torque at the wheels you need a smaller pinion so the spur gear doesn't turn as fast.
Yeah, I realised that after hate to say it but you have gone the wrong way with the pinion, if you want less speed and more torque at the wheels you need a smaller pinion so the spur gear doesn't turn as fast.
I would have got a selection to play with, but the place I ordered the last lot of bits from only had one size in stock....
Another year, another update, another breakage
The front shock tower you see in last year's update (or was it 2 years ago? anyway...) was made from 3 pieces of alloy brazed together and it lasted a while, but then one leg fell off for no reason at all on a tarmac path, dog walking, a couple of weeks ago. Just fatigue in the join I think. Turns out ny brazing sills are non-exsistant, but luckily, HongKong comes to the rescue once again:
:no joins on this one! Milled from a single lump of cheddar
Half installed:
Slots straight in, I do wonder just how even china can support a model this old like this!
She rides again!
Although you can't really see it, the rear wing had also snapped a side off, and it's also now fixed, and redecorated in that old favourite finish: "gaffer tape black"
Meanwhile, there's been an outbreak of paypaling around here, the first of 5 or 6 packages arrived today.....
Expecting a couple more UK orders in the next few days and then hopefully the US and HK bits a week or so after that. Oh, and something special from Canada
There will be a new thread eventually That's another 27t motor there; again reading back over the thread, I must have a spare 35t somewhere to try on this, too...
In the meantime, looking back on this thread, I see I said I would ebay the Manta if I ever bought new, but although I half justified repairing her again by saying she's worth more as a full runner... I'm not sure I can bring myself to part with her. But, if a Mad Max Manta is what you've always wanted, PM me, as anyone who can be bothered to read all my ramblings this far down has already shown they'd be a worthy keeper
The front shock tower you see in last year's update (or was it 2 years ago? anyway...) was made from 3 pieces of alloy brazed together and it lasted a while, but then one leg fell off for no reason at all on a tarmac path, dog walking, a couple of weeks ago. Just fatigue in the join I think. Turns out ny brazing sills are non-exsistant, but luckily, HongKong comes to the rescue once again:
:no joins on this one! Milled from a single lump of cheddar
Half installed:
Slots straight in, I do wonder just how even china can support a model this old like this!
She rides again!
Although you can't really see it, the rear wing had also snapped a side off, and it's also now fixed, and redecorated in that old favourite finish: "gaffer tape black"
Meanwhile, there's been an outbreak of paypaling around here, the first of 5 or 6 packages arrived today.....
Expecting a couple more UK orders in the next few days and then hopefully the US and HK bits a week or so after that. Oh, and something special from Canada
There will be a new thread eventually That's another 27t motor there; again reading back over the thread, I must have a spare 35t somewhere to try on this, too...In the meantime, looking back on this thread, I see I said I would ebay the Manta if I ever bought new, but although I half justified repairing her again by saying she's worth more as a full runner... I'm not sure I can bring myself to part with her. But, if a Mad Max Manta is what you've always wanted, PM me, as anyone who can be bothered to read all my ramblings this far down has already shown they'd be a worthy keeper
MrBig said:
How's the wraith going now? More importantly, what's the latest on the Manta Ray? Just been trawling the net for info on them as I'm thinking of getting one as the basis for a Top Force replica and Google lead me back here!
Wraith's a cracking drive, copes well with the stuff I wanted it to (since I spent a small fortune on a high spec steering servo...). Seems my RC mainly comes out in the winter months for some reason, guess that's why my Manta updates are all Jan/Feb. The Manta's been in the cupboard under the stairs since the Wraith's been working, I think it'll come out for winter walks/races with my daughter some time over winter...Disastrous said:
Sorry for the resurrection, but I'd like to redo mine (I think I posted a thread years ago but can't find it now and never got around to it) and am struggling to figure out where to start. I think I know what bits I want but am struggling to know exactly what model parts to order.
As far as I know, nothing was actually broken on it, prior to it moving to the loft years ago but assuming time has dried out oil and whatnot I think I will need:
1) New shock oil - is this standard? Is it easy to apply? Is there a particular type?
2) An ESC - does this just swap in for the mechanical part? Is there a model that fits in the chassis especially?
3) Motor? Should be ok I think. I was happy with it anyway and initially would like to just get it to run.
4) Batteries - I had a couple yellow NiCad (IIRC) battery packs that lasted all of 5 seconds each back in the day. And a charger. Can I upgrade these and use my old charger?
My other issue is the body shell. I've found one place (Kamtec) that does replacements but not the wing. Are there alternative wings that would work??
Thanks in advance - I'm really pretty clueless about all this. I made an initial enquiry to a model shop online a few years ago but was told that basically it would be more expensive to get parts than it was worth, and I should buy a new one, which felt silly somehow so all advice appreciated!
1) Shock oil's available in various grades, heavier = stiffer. The different companies don't follow the same numbering scheme though, so it's a bit hit-and-miss unless you buy several grades from one company. You may well find there's a bottle in your pile of bits (you do have a pile of bits leftover/accumulated?) as they supply too much in the first place IIRC.As far as I know, nothing was actually broken on it, prior to it moving to the loft years ago but assuming time has dried out oil and whatnot I think I will need:
1) New shock oil - is this standard? Is it easy to apply? Is there a particular type?
2) An ESC - does this just swap in for the mechanical part? Is there a model that fits in the chassis especially?
3) Motor? Should be ok I think. I was happy with it anyway and initially would like to just get it to run.
4) Batteries - I had a couple yellow NiCad (IIRC) battery packs that lasted all of 5 seconds each back in the day. And a charger. Can I upgrade these and use my old charger?
My other issue is the body shell. I've found one place (Kamtec) that does replacements but not the wing. Are there alternative wings that would work??
Thanks in advance - I'm really pretty clueless about all this. I made an initial enquiry to a model shop online a few years ago but was told that basically it would be more expensive to get parts than it was worth, and I should buy a new one, which felt silly somehow so all advice appreciated!
2) ESC is basically a simple swop. You can/will lose the "hot" resistor. My heatsinking was probably 100% unnecessary
Cable ties or maybe sticky Velcro will mount it fine.3) If it ain't broke
Faster motors = more damage to the front end 4) Go NiMH, battery tech has increased massively; easy 20 mins or so from 3000mAH; a new NiMH charger is cheap enough too. You could look into Lithium but that's a whole other level...
5+supp) Ebay is probably your best friend here. Or you could, with imagination and boldness, get many other things to fit: the body posts are available in various lengths so you can mount something higher/less figure-hugging. I would say that I do find the wing important in terms of rolling the car it does seem much more likely to end up on the wheels (or at least the side) rather than the roof with the wing on. Mine is about 95% gaffa tape these days!
However, the model shop may be right in many ways: various bits of your old car may be brittle/perished and just plain older, less crash resistant designs and materials than newer kit. I keep mine going from love rather than sense!
Although it's been raining almost constantly since November here in SW Wale, so RC time since about a year ago = 0
Disastrous said:
Reading this again, I'm slightly terrified that once I fit the bits my car will immediately smash itself to pieces like the OP's one.
TBF, mine suffered a combination of 10/11 year old daughter's driving, and a venue that's an old spoil heap, with lots of big chunky rocks for said daughter to drive it into Gassing Station | Scale Models | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff