Tamiya Honda S2000
Discussion
Made a second start on this last night. First time was about 10 years ago (when I was going to buy the real thing, but didn't), and I managed to dissolve the body and floorpan. You can get individual spare sprues for Tamiya kits, but the cost was much more than a brand new complete kit. I managed to finally pick up a second hand one at Cosford last Sunday for £10.
I removed the parts from their sprues and removed the gates. Typical Tamiya precision - beautiful mouldings and a dry run shows it will pretty much fall together by itself.
With this one I want to try Metal Cote paint again (for the silencers) and Zero Paints. I've sent the paint code to Hiroboy so hopefully they can match it. Not convinced about the size of metallic flakes in Zero paints, becasue apparently only some colours have scaled flakes. We will soon find out.
I removed the parts from their sprues and removed the gates. Typical Tamiya precision - beautiful mouldings and a dry run shows it will pretty much fall together by itself.
With this one I want to try Metal Cote paint again (for the silencers) and Zero Paints. I've sent the paint code to Hiroboy so hopefully they can match it. Not convinced about the size of metallic flakes in Zero paints, becasue apparently only some colours have scaled flakes. We will soon find out.
No reply from Hiroboy.
From pictures of metallics painted in Zero paints I must admit that I was always less than convinced about the supposed flake size reduction. Having dug a bit further, it *appears* from the blurb on their website that the 'colour match' service they offer is nothing more than a very expensive version of the stuff you can get from any automotive paint shop, simply thinned down for airbrushing and shoved in a 60cc jar. The flake size is identical to the full size car - ie way too big - which is how it always looked to me. The smaller flake size applies to only a few special colours.
Guess which paints I won't be using...
From pictures of metallics painted in Zero paints I must admit that I was always less than convinced about the supposed flake size reduction. Having dug a bit further, it *appears* from the blurb on their website that the 'colour match' service they offer is nothing more than a very expensive version of the stuff you can get from any automotive paint shop, simply thinned down for airbrushing and shoved in a 60cc jar. The flake size is identical to the full size car - ie way too big - which is how it always looked to me. The smaller flake size applies to only a few special colours.
Guess which paints I won't be using...
Red Firecracker said:
Funnily enough, totally opposite of my experience (guess who tried to touch in a real car with Zero paint!). All the Zero metallic I've used have had finer flake than 1:1 and much finer flake than the paint I've stripped off the models to repaint.
If you need to speak to Steve, it is always best to ring him. He's a one man band and doesn't get round to answering his emails too often.
Hmmm the Hiroboy website says:If you need to speak to Steve, it is always best to ring him. He's a one man band and doesn't get round to answering his emails too often.
"The brand of paints we use is Lechler, so we would recommend searching their online colour database found here for colour codes : http://explorer.lechler.it/ using the following to login :"
It seems like just a standard automotive paint mixing service, so as far as I can tell, if you request a specific colour to be mixed to a code, you'll get nothing more than standard automotive paint that's been thinned a bit for airbrushing.
No idea about other metallics that they might have had formulated. I couldn't find Honda Silver Stone metallic listed, which must be a common colour, so I presume it's a custom mix, which will undoubtedly look wrong.
I'm considering using a mix of Citadel Myrthil silver and Chainmail.
Red Firecracker said:
dr_gn said:
Hmmm the Hiroboy website says:
"The brand of paints we use is Lechler, so we would recommend searching their online colour database found here for colour codes : http://explorer.lechler.it/ using the following to login :"
It seems like just a standard automotive paint mixing service, so as far as I can tell, if you request a specific colour to be mixed to a code, you'll get nothing more than standard automotive paint that's been thinned a bit for airbrushing.
No idea about other metallics that they might have had formulated. I couldn't find Honda Silver Stone metallic listed, which must be a common colour, so I presume it's a custom mix, which will undoubtedly look wrong.
I'm considering using a mix of Citadel Myrthil silver and Chainmail.
I have had numerous 'real world' car colours mixed and all have been finer (to my eyes) than the 1:1 scales, from TVR colours, to Jaguar, to Honda, to VW and Mazda and many more in between. The Mazda Racing Gold mix was far finer than the Mazda Racing Gold that was on my MX5, far finer. You need to give him the exact manufacturer code for the paint, including year etc."The brand of paints we use is Lechler, so we would recommend searching their online colour database found here for colour codes : http://explorer.lechler.it/ using the following to login :"
It seems like just a standard automotive paint mixing service, so as far as I can tell, if you request a specific colour to be mixed to a code, you'll get nothing more than standard automotive paint that's been thinned a bit for airbrushing.
No idea about other metallics that they might have had formulated. I couldn't find Honda Silver Stone metallic listed, which must be a common colour, so I presume it's a custom mix, which will undoubtedly look wrong.
I'm considering using a mix of Citadel Myrthil silver and Chainmail.
It really is better to ring him.
There should be no mottling visible at that scale with true scale flakes.
Red Firecracker said:
Your best bet really is to ring him and speak to him directly, he can then advise on what is scaled, what isn't scaled etc.
I had a chat with Steve. It seems like they somehow re-engineer some paints but not others depending on how large the flakes look. He tries to get the paint looking right for 1:24 scale which is what I need. He also assured me that the metallic paints sometimes look worse under flash photography (I mentioned some of the gallery images did look to be quite coarse).FWIW I'll give them a go. I think that it will probably not be a fantastic finish due to the difficulty of spraying metallics in general, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
Red Firecracker said:
dr_gn said:
I had a chat with Steve. It seems like they somehow re-engineer some paints but not others depending on how large the flakes look. He tries to get the paint looking right for 1:24 scale which is what I need. He also assured me that the metallic paints sometimes look worse under flash photography (I mentioned some of the gallery images did look to be quite coarse).
FWIW I'll give them a go. I think that it will probably not be a fantastic finish due to the difficulty of spraying metallics in general, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
That's good to hear.FWIW I'll give them a go. I think that it will probably not be a fantastic finish due to the difficulty of spraying metallics in general, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
You just need to remember to spray in the same direction, not varied and to make sure your pressure and nozzle diameter are correct.
Red Firecracker said:
dr_gn said:
I had a chat with Steve. It seems like they somehow re-engineer some paints but not others depending on how large the flakes look. He tries to get the paint looking right for 1:24 scale which is what I need. He also assured me that the metallic paints sometimes look worse under flash photography (I mentioned some of the gallery images did look to be quite coarse).
FWIW I'll give them a go. I think that it will probably not be a fantastic finish due to the difficulty of spraying metallics in general, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
You just need to remember to spray in the same direction, not varied and to make sure your pressure and nozzle diameter are correct.FWIW I'll give them a go. I think that it will probably not be a fantastic finish due to the difficulty of spraying metallics in general, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
"The final coat should be applied in a criss-cross fashion to allow an even consistency of the metallic particles."
ETA: the guide also says:
"Each coat will dry within a few minutes. DO NOT apply Wet
Coats, the paint will dry MATT (this is normal), just ensure you have even colour coverage."
What is a "wet" coat wrt spray painting? Does the guide mean the paint should be almost dry as it hits the surface?
Edited by dr_gn on Tuesday 19th April 09:33
You know when you spend ages on trying to get something right, and the realization dawns that it's not to be this time...?
Not impressed with the Zero paint so far. As I expected, the flake size looks massively overscale. TBH it looks terrible. I'll reserve final judgement until daylight, but side by side, even the metallic silver on my £15 1:43 Minichamps Mercedes 300SLR is a class apart. Followed the instructions to the letter, but the clearcoat is fairly dull even after five wet coats. I'm almost certain that if I'd have used the Tamiya paint mix in the instructions it would have looked better.
Anyone got any reccomendations for a fine surface polish for whatever the Zero "pre mixed clearcoat" is?
Not impressed with the Zero paint so far. As I expected, the flake size looks massively overscale. TBH it looks terrible. I'll reserve final judgement until daylight, but side by side, even the metallic silver on my £15 1:43 Minichamps Mercedes 300SLR is a class apart. Followed the instructions to the letter, but the clearcoat is fairly dull even after five wet coats. I'm almost certain that if I'd have used the Tamiya paint mix in the instructions it would have looked better.
Anyone got any reccomendations for a fine surface polish for whatever the Zero "pre mixed clearcoat" is?
Red Firecracker said:
I'm surprised your clear coat is dull. I very rarely need to polish it out, but use a Micromesh kit when I do (which is normaly due to environmental conditions).
My process for clearing with the pre-mix clear is to apply a very light coat at about 10psi to seal and then wait a couple of hours. Then a couple of wet coats at about 5psi separated by 30 minutes and then another wet coat the next day (my timings are based around me doing other things more than anything else).
Thanks for the advice, but I'm stripping the whole lot and starting again with my own paint mix. any ideas on how to strip this stuff? I'll take some pics of the Zero Paint result before I strip it.My process for clearing with the pre-mix clear is to apply a very light coat at about 10psi to seal and then wait a couple of hours. Then a couple of wet coats at about 5psi separated by 30 minutes and then another wet coat the next day (my timings are based around me doing other things more than anything else).
I'm considering packing the whole lot back to the guy and asking for my money back. As far as I'm concerned the whole 're-engineered for a more scale meallic finish' is a load of guff (TBH I wasn't conviced when I spoke to him on the 'phone the other day). A scale metallic either looks right or wrong - this looks totally wrong. ETA I'm sure they do *something* to the flake size, but it's certainly not anywhere near 1:24 scale to my eyes at least.
Edited by dr_gn on Monday 25th April 09:48
Red Firecracker said:
I've never had to strip paint froma plastic shell but the traditional brake fluid for a slow strip of Isopropol Alchohol (IPA) for a quicker strip are what I have seen recommended.
Sorry to hear you didn't get on with it though.
Yeah it's a shame, but at least I had a go with it. I'm sure the Zero Paint solid coulours are very good.Sorry to hear you didn't get on with it though.
Red Firecracker said:
I'm certainly not going to argue with you.
To compare a Mercedes;
which was painted with Zero silver.
There's obviously something wrong here. I just emailed him and I don't think he will be in any doubt about how I feel about having ruined a decent model.To compare a Mercedes;
which was painted with Zero silver.
Pretty sure I won't get a reply, just like I didn't with the initial enquiry.
The_Jackal said:
I'm guessing you are looking at progressing thru the micromesh cloths?
I have to say, I assumed Zero paints were the dogs danglies, but it looks like it might be worth mixing your own concoction from Alcad et al.
After this weekends experience I now officially don't see any advantage whatsoever of using Zero paints. The colour match service is good I suppose (even though I've built around 20 F1 cars and never had the slightest problem getting the right shade with enamels including the metallic black/grey of the Tyrrell 020).I have to say, I assumed Zero paints were the dogs danglies, but it looks like it might be worth mixing your own concoction from Alcad et al.
With the Tamiya S2000 (or any decent car model) the bodywork straight from the mould is virtually flawless. Very smooth and shiny.
With zero paints you have to go through an elaborate sequence of processes:
1) You need to use a primer becasue the basecoat will attack the plastic.
2) You have to key the plastic with a light abrasive - this obviously destroys some of the original flatness and shine (from now on you're playing catch-up with the finish).
3) You spray on a primer - again, this introduces even more roughness to the once perfect surface.
4) You flat the primer down. This is not only very difficult or impossible around wing mirrors, A/B/C pillars, radiator intakes etc., but it also ruins the fidelity of some of the fine surface detail such as windscreen washer jets, badges, door handles etc.
5) Then repeat 4) ad nauseum, becasue you're bound to remove the primer from certain areas.
6) Basecoat time. Spray. Flat. Spray. Flat.
7) Clearcoat. Spray. Lots. Polish. Lots (again, virtually impossible around aforementioed details). BTW, I did get a good finish with T-Cut on the S2000, but it just made the metallic flakes look even more prominent.
What a chuffing joke.
With enamels you:
1) Spray the paint on in two or three coats, and you get a beautiful deep shine.
2) Sit back and admire.
Anyway.
I went back to plan a) and mixed my own colour using Citadel Myrthil Silver and Revall Aqua Colour Black. Both are water soluble. The result was much better. I did use the Zero Clear Lacquer (mainly because it looks like I'm stuck with it - No response to my complaint e-mail to Steve at Hiroboy). The lacquer needs polishing, but is already a better finish than with the Zero basecoat:
Here is a direct comparison with the Citadel:Aqua mix, and the Zero paint. Looking through a loupe, the Zero flake size is roughtly twice as large as the Citadel mix:
I went back to plan a) and mixed my own colour using Citadel Myrthil Silver and Revall Aqua Colour Black. Both are water soluble. The result was much better. I did use the Zero Clear Lacquer (mainly because it looks like I'm stuck with it - No response to my complaint e-mail to Steve at Hiroboy). The lacquer needs polishing, but is already a better finish than with the Zero basecoat:
Here is a direct comparison with the Citadel:Aqua mix, and the Zero paint. Looking through a loupe, the Zero flake size is roughtly twice as large as the Citadel mix:
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