Clio 172 Aux belt slipping
Discussion
Post copied from Cliosport but I need all the help I can get with this 
Hi Car is a 172 mk2 with AC. Stock belt setup.
So... My aux belt started squeaking and making a horrific noise on full lock. Ah well, was overdue anyway. Transpired the pump was actually stopping when loading the steering up, hence the noise. I changed the tensioner and the belt first following advice on here which was a fun job and it made no real difference. Annoying but the PAS pump has been whining for a while so I set out to start again and change that. The fact the fluid went black within a week of changing the belt reinforced my dead pump theory, or so I thought.
Stripped the car again a week after repair 1 and replaced the PAS pump. Put it all back together, filled with the right fluid and after a week the problem is back with a vengeance and getting worse.
To summarise, replaced the aux belt, idler pulley, tensioner, PAS fluid and PAS pump and the belt still squeaks on start up and on full lock and dry steering. Crank pulley "seems" fine to me with no play and doesn't look obviously f**ked, old pump definitely shagged when compared to it's replacement, genuine Renault parts used. Car starts fine so I'm assuming battery/alt fine and there are no water leaks from anywhere so I've ruled out the water pump? and it's not and never did leak PAS fluid. It has stayed red though which is nice. I have used the same belt for repair 1 and repair 2. If this is my issue I will change it again I'm just sick of ripping it apart and the thing still pissing me about.
I am fairly confident with cars/tools and have done many repairs on old sheds over the years but this car and it's ridiculous design is close to beating me.
I have since changed the belt again with a brand new one to no avail. I am now at the point where I am doubting myself and my abilities to fix this car and am considering paying somebody to look at it/fix it if there's anyone local to Maidstone that knows what they're doing?
Hi Car is a 172 mk2 with AC. Stock belt setup.
So... My aux belt started squeaking and making a horrific noise on full lock. Ah well, was overdue anyway. Transpired the pump was actually stopping when loading the steering up, hence the noise. I changed the tensioner and the belt first following advice on here which was a fun job and it made no real difference. Annoying but the PAS pump has been whining for a while so I set out to start again and change that. The fact the fluid went black within a week of changing the belt reinforced my dead pump theory, or so I thought.
Stripped the car again a week after repair 1 and replaced the PAS pump. Put it all back together, filled with the right fluid and after a week the problem is back with a vengeance and getting worse.
To summarise, replaced the aux belt, idler pulley, tensioner, PAS fluid and PAS pump and the belt still squeaks on start up and on full lock and dry steering. Crank pulley "seems" fine to me with no play and doesn't look obviously f**ked, old pump definitely shagged when compared to it's replacement, genuine Renault parts used. Car starts fine so I'm assuming battery/alt fine and there are no water leaks from anywhere so I've ruled out the water pump? and it's not and never did leak PAS fluid. It has stayed red though which is nice. I have used the same belt for repair 1 and repair 2. If this is my issue I will change it again I'm just sick of ripping it apart and the thing still pissing me about.
I am fairly confident with cars/tools and have done many repairs on old sheds over the years but this car and it's ridiculous design is close to beating me.
I have since changed the belt again with a brand new one to no avail. I am now at the point where I am doubting myself and my abilities to fix this car and am considering paying somebody to look at it/fix it if there's anyone local to Maidstone that knows what they're doing?
Edited by StoatInACoat on Monday 22 September 10:56
DaveL485 said:
That could just be a slipping belt.
Also, you're suppose to change the tensioner when you change the belt.
I did. First repair was a new tensioner/belt, Second repair was a new power steering pump and fluid and third repair was a replacement belt and bottom roller wheel thing in case I'd managed to fAlso, you're suppose to change the tensioner when you change the belt.
k the belt up or get something on it between repair one and three somehow. I am disinclined to get the cambelt changed at the moment. Mainly because it has another twelve months on it but also because this issue is definitely aux belt/ancillary related. I have been told by Ren7oaks that it is unlikely to be the crank pulley and he thinks it's another dead pump. Not sure what to do now, really don't want to rip it all apart again, borrow a car, send pump off for replacement, stick it back in and have the problem AGAIN.
Thank you for the contact in Portsmouth. If I ever get this fixed and decide to keep the car I would be happy to travel to get a cambelt done at a decent price rather than getting ripped off for it locally.
There are a lot of threads about this issue on Cliosport but very few solutions. I have read somewhere that the belt should be "Bowstring tight" and mine doesn't seem to be. I'm tempted to buy another kit, fit it and return the other one if it works. Oh to have unlimited time, daylight and motivation.
Edited by StoatInACoat on Wednesday 1st October 10:30
Edited by StoatInACoat on Wednesday 1st October 13:54
High pressure return issue of some sort? There must be a pressure release valve or something somewhere. If it goes away when bled.
Hmmmm. stty thing. Right back to squeaking when fired and parking in the garage this evening. Not embarrassing at all.
Just found this:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?6638...
So the cap is a pressure release valve. This makes sense. Mine blows fluid everywhere if the lid is off and the tank filled right up to the top - as in overfilled when I start the car. Also have had the fluid everywhere/boiling issue on track before. This would suggest pressure in the system when you start the car, nowhere for it to go = pump stalls, belt slips, squeak.
Obviously when you steer it will pressure it up too = pump stall, belt slip.
Going to drill a hole in the and see if it works. To be honest I have no idea what I'm doing now and I'm making it up as I go along but attacking the car with power tools sounds therapeutic to me. There's every chance I'll just cover the battery and bonnet with PAS fluid but at least it might catch fire and then I wont have to fix it.
Hmmmm. s
tty thing. Right back to squeaking when fired and parking in the garage this evening. Not embarrassing at all.Just found this:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?6638...
So the cap is a pressure release valve. This makes sense. Mine blows fluid everywhere if the lid is off and the tank filled right up to the top - as in overfilled when I start the car. Also have had the fluid everywhere/boiling issue on track before. This would suggest pressure in the system when you start the car, nowhere for it to go = pump stalls, belt slips, squeak.
Obviously when you steer it will pressure it up too = pump stall, belt slip.
Going to drill a hole in the
and see if it works. To be honest I have no idea what I'm doing now and I'm making it up as I go along but attacking the car with power tools sounds therapeutic to me. There's every chance I'll just cover the battery and bonnet with PAS fluid but at least it might catch fire and then I wont have to fix it.Edited by StoatInACoat on Thursday 2nd October 20:07
Edited by StoatInACoat on Thursday 2nd October 20:20
Took cap off and took it to bits. It's definitely a valve and has holes in it which are presumably supposed to release built up air pressure and cause a nice overflow problem when the fluid boils on track. See brilliant picture below:
Cap is made up of four parts with the foam thing between the red thing and the black bit. Black bit has a rubber gasket on it as well which fell off after I took this other excellent picture.
I enlarged all the holes which were all gunged up with ste using a screw and lobbed the filthy foam thing in the bin. Put the gasket back on, put it all back together and suck it on the car. No idea if it'll work long term but at least any air now has somewhere to go as it was so cacky that I don't think it would have been able to pass as it was. With your problem above the issue goes away for a bit when you bleed it so I'm hoping that now it is "self bleeding" mine will be the same. Here's hoping!
Cap is made up of four parts with the foam thing between the red thing and the black bit. Black bit has a rubber gasket on it as well which fell off after I took this other excellent picture.
I enlarged all the holes which were all gunged up with s
te using a screw and lobbed the filthy foam thing in the bin. Put the gasket back on, put it all back together and suck it on the car. No idea if it'll work long term but at least any air now has somewhere to go as it was so cacky that I don't think it would have been able to pass as it was. With your problem above the issue goes away for a bit when you bleed it so I'm hoping that now it is "self bleeding" mine will be the same. Here's hoping! I will report back properly at the end of this week but so far so good. Belt is a bit chirpy from start when steering but isn't, so far making a squeak and is behaving normally when pottering about at low speeds and parking. This is definitely an improvement!
However, it has been much colder last couple of days and when the engine is properly cold it makes no belt noise at all. Idle higher? Fluid more viscous? Something contracting slightly? Who knows. Going to see how it goes then change the sensor thing on the high pressure return pipe as they seem to be about £30 on ebay so I might as well carry on changing pointless crap and spending money until hopefully all squeaking is eliminated. Will give the battery a juice up as well as it's a free thing to try.
Trying to avoid changing the belt/pump again basically
However, it has been much colder last couple of days and when the engine is properly cold it makes no belt noise at all. Idle higher? Fluid more viscous? Something contracting slightly? Who knows. Going to see how it goes then change the sensor thing on the high pressure return pipe as they seem to be about £30 on ebay so I might as well carry on changing pointless crap and spending money until hopefully all squeaking is eliminated. Will give the battery a juice up as well as it's a free thing to try.
Trying to avoid changing the belt/pump again basically
I have just had a call from Ren7oaks where I left the heap o' ste in despair last week. It's fixed and it works properly but unfortunately had a new pump (again!) and a new crank pulley. On top of my new belt and tensioner and multiple pumps etc etc.... He thought it was the pump again so replaced it but then compared the car with another 172 and discovered a mangled crank pulley on mine so only charged me parts + fitting of the pump. Still £500 altogether though
Anyone wanna buy a second hand pump?
te in despair last week. It's fixed and it works properly but unfortunately had a new pump (again!) and a new crank pulley. On top of my new belt and tensioner and multiple pumps etc etc.... He thought it was the pump again so replaced it but then compared the car with another 172 and discovered a mangled crank pulley on mine so only charged me parts + fitting of the pump. Still £500 altogether though Anyone wanna buy a second hand pump?
don logan said:
I was wondering how you were getting on, I think the crank pulley is the common denominator here because mine had a pump and still had lumpy steering, yours had a tensioner and had lumpy steering, mine`s had both now and it`s fixed and yours has had a crank pulley too!
Definitely. Mine in chronological order:Aux belt kit - No change
Pump - No change
Aux tensioner + new belt - No change
Brand new pump - No change
Rage + shouting + attacking the cap - No change
New crank pulley - Success!
An expensive fact finding mission. If you're having the same problem I'd recommend just changing the bloody crank pulley
I've seen them before on Peugeots and have heard of them falling apart when the rubber bit gives up as the metal around it rusts and forces it apart. Mine had a few tiny hairline cracks in the rubber bit but otherwise seemed ok and didn't wobble or anything.
I think it's partially because it's under SO much tension, more than any car I've ever seen to the point of feeling wrong when you release the tensioner. Glad it's fixed though as when that pulley does make a bid for freedom it munches it own belt and mangles the cam belt at the same time.
I think it's partially because it's under SO much tension, more than any car I've ever seen to the point of feeling wrong when you release the tensioner. Glad it's fixed though as when that pulley does make a bid for freedom it munches it own belt and mangles the cam belt at the same time.
Um. Quite a lot. Mine ended up costing just over £570 but that included a pump which turned out not to be the fault although my pump was also pretty ruined (fluid black) so didn't hurt to have a new one.
Easy way to see if it's the crank pulley. Take pass wheel and arch liner off, remove splash guard thing (bit of a faff) and paint a line on the crank pulley through it's diameter. Run around a bit, make it squeak, see if line is broken. The outer and inner parts of the pulley come apart basically and I wish I had done this in the first place instead of convincing myself it was something else.
If it throws the belt or the pulley breaks it will kill the engine. It MUST be locked up to remove the aux pulley as the bottom toothed cambelt pulley is not keyed to the crank and the whole thing is held together by the pulley bolt you can see. Genius.
My symptoms were squeak on start up, screaming/belt stopping on full lock, chirping when cold/wet and generally being an embarrassing pile of arse.
Easy way to see if it's the crank pulley. Take pass wheel and arch liner off, remove splash guard thing (bit of a faff) and paint a line on the crank pulley through it's diameter. Run around a bit, make it squeak, see if line is broken. The outer and inner parts of the pulley come apart basically and I wish I had done this in the first place instead of convincing myself it was something else.
If it throws the belt or the pulley breaks it will kill the engine. It MUST be locked up to remove the aux pulley as the bottom toothed cambelt pulley is not keyed to the crank and the whole thing is held together by the pulley bolt you can see. Genius.
My symptoms were squeak on start up, screaming/belt stopping on full lock, chirping when cold/wet and generally being an embarrassing pile of arse.
Is it worse on full lock? I assume the tensioner and the idler thing have been replaced as well? Does it do it with the AC on?
If you get a mate to make it do it on idle while you watch under the bonnet you should be able to see the belt "seize" when it squeaks if its the crank pulley.
If you get a mate to make it do it on idle while you watch under the bonnet you should be able to see the belt "seize" when it squeaks if its the crank pulley.
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