Renault Espace fun and games - not!
Discussion
Hi all,
Below is a post that I have made on the Honest John site regarding the ongoing fun and games with the Espace - any contributions would be appreciated and yes I know I should not have bought it in the first place!
05 2.2 EGR, loss of power, management light, oil l - DSRenault
Hi Folks,
I am the latest in the line of unofficial development engineers for the famed Espace 2.2DCI, however I will not be beaten by a mere machine (hopes).
In six months I have been through two EGR valves, prior to the last change oil was finding its way out of the valve connection to the induction pipe/hose and of course was loosing oil though not at a tremendous rate - also along with this the management light would come on under mid to high load and the turbo would cut out until the engine was turned off.
Took the car to a specialist and eventually to a main dealer who both diagnosed that the EGR valve (the second by this time) needed replacing as this was causing oil to be drawn through.
Valve changed pipes cleaned and all was well for about 1-2 months then exactly the same problems happen again with the adde bonus of oil appearing somwhere out the top of the engine as the underside of the air intake box is covered.
I have booked the car in at a different garage (one with a lot of experience with diesel engines) for Monday but wondered if anyone could add to the list of things I will ask them to look at below:-
Clean EGR valve and pipework as required (possibley replace)
Oil and filter change to fully synthetic
Check breather pipes (top near injectors)
Check turbo, bearings seals etc.
Check turbo hoses
Check inlet manifold
Check and replace brake light switch and reset
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Below is a post that I have made on the Honest John site regarding the ongoing fun and games with the Espace - any contributions would be appreciated and yes I know I should not have bought it in the first place!
05 2.2 EGR, loss of power, management light, oil l - DSRenault
Hi Folks,
I am the latest in the line of unofficial development engineers for the famed Espace 2.2DCI, however I will not be beaten by a mere machine (hopes).
In six months I have been through two EGR valves, prior to the last change oil was finding its way out of the valve connection to the induction pipe/hose and of course was loosing oil though not at a tremendous rate - also along with this the management light would come on under mid to high load and the turbo would cut out until the engine was turned off.
Took the car to a specialist and eventually to a main dealer who both diagnosed that the EGR valve (the second by this time) needed replacing as this was causing oil to be drawn through.
Valve changed pipes cleaned and all was well for about 1-2 months then exactly the same problems happen again with the adde bonus of oil appearing somwhere out the top of the engine as the underside of the air intake box is covered.
I have booked the car in at a different garage (one with a lot of experience with diesel engines) for Monday but wondered if anyone could add to the list of things I will ask them to look at below:-
Clean EGR valve and pipework as required (possibley replace)
Oil and filter change to fully synthetic
Check breather pipes (top near injectors)
Check turbo, bearings seals etc.
Check turbo hoses
Check inlet manifold
Check and replace brake light switch and reset
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Thankyou for the reply,
Yes the oil is coming out where the egr valve attaches to the inlet pipe as well as from somewhere near the top of the engine as there is oil over the underside of the air intake box.
What do you mean by the dpf?
The turbo seems to sound fine when working as confirmed by previous garage, without taking it apart.
Yes the oil is coming out where the egr valve attaches to the inlet pipe as well as from somewhere near the top of the engine as there is oil over the underside of the air intake box.
What do you mean by the dpf?
The turbo seems to sound fine when working as confirmed by previous garage, without taking it apart.
The oil seems to be the underlying problem in the back of my mind but no garages can seem to determin where it is getting into the induction system.
Previously renualt assured me 100% that it was due to the EGR valve not functioning and not allowing the engine to breath thus pulling oil through.
That is why I thought that oil could be getting in via a turbo seal/bearings.
The engine seems only to shut down the turbo under mid-high load so the point about running on engine oil is interesting but a bit of a chicken and an egg situation regarding the oil getting in again.
Having had it diagnosed plugged into the computer there was a turbo sensor fault.
Previously renualt assured me 100% that it was due to the EGR valve not functioning and not allowing the engine to breath thus pulling oil through.
That is why I thought that oil could be getting in via a turbo seal/bearings.
The engine seems only to shut down the turbo under mid-high load so the point about running on engine oil is interesting but a bit of a chicken and an egg situation regarding the oil getting in again.
Having had it diagnosed plugged into the computer there was a turbo sensor fault.
No specific details on the fault code for the turbo sensor were given - no fault code is currently coming up for the EGR valve though i believe, yet the same problems.
I have tried listening to see if the turbo is indeed working in limp home mode as suggested but could not hear anything.
I understand that later engines (mines an 05) have the valve mounted vertically and work slightly better. If this is true is it possible to retro fit?
I know that there is no magic wand with enough power to magic this infamous engine into working reasonably reliably, but I would be very grateful for any suggestions on a garage/mechanic who has a good working knowledge and dealt with such issues - I live in SE Kent but would be prepared to travel if it were to resolve matters
All the best
I have tried listening to see if the turbo is indeed working in limp home mode as suggested but could not hear anything.
I understand that later engines (mines an 05) have the valve mounted vertically and work slightly better. If this is true is it possible to retro fit?
I know that there is no magic wand with enough power to magic this infamous engine into working reasonably reliably, but I would be very grateful for any suggestions on a garage/mechanic who has a good working knowledge and dealt with such issues - I live in SE Kent but would be prepared to travel if it were to resolve matters
All the best
Having thought about the whole EGR valve issue I have seen suggestions on other forums as to blanking the EGR valve off and there have been many replies advising against this. It would appear in many cases this has been a success but no long term tests - so a bit of an unknown.
As I understand the valve recirculates exhaust gases back into the induction system to be re-burnt for environmental/cooling reasons.
I am not sure if a specific gas is extracted to be recirculated such as carbon dioxide or monoxide but suspect it just normal exhaust gases hence the soot and carbon collecting and clogging up the EGR valve.
It is also suggested that this gas is used for cooling purposes in the cylinders and any removal of the EGR valve would be detrimental to this with consequences for the turbo to overheat etc.
Now at the moment I am more concerened with having a functioning engine than reduction of carbon dioxide (rightly or wrongly) but would have concerns removing/blankijng off the EGR valve system totally.
My idea would be to cap the exhaust gas feed to the valve off removing the pipe and provide an air intake with filter to the EGR valve where the exhaust gas would have previously been. The thought behind this is that the ECU gets to operate the EGR valve and it has a supply of cool gas ie air (which must be cooler than the re-circulated exhaust gas) to feed into the induction system. Also there would be no clogging up of the EGR valve with soot and carbon.
Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated and please feel free to tell me if I am talking nonsense.
As I understand the valve recirculates exhaust gases back into the induction system to be re-burnt for environmental/cooling reasons.
I am not sure if a specific gas is extracted to be recirculated such as carbon dioxide or monoxide but suspect it just normal exhaust gases hence the soot and carbon collecting and clogging up the EGR valve.
It is also suggested that this gas is used for cooling purposes in the cylinders and any removal of the EGR valve would be detrimental to this with consequences for the turbo to overheat etc.
Now at the moment I am more concerened with having a functioning engine than reduction of carbon dioxide (rightly or wrongly) but would have concerns removing/blankijng off the EGR valve system totally.
My idea would be to cap the exhaust gas feed to the valve off removing the pipe and provide an air intake with filter to the EGR valve where the exhaust gas would have previously been. The thought behind this is that the ECU gets to operate the EGR valve and it has a supply of cool gas ie air (which must be cooler than the re-circulated exhaust gas) to feed into the induction system. Also there would be no clogging up of the EGR valve with soot and carbon.
Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated and please feel free to tell me if I am talking nonsense.
Turbo seals/area was my initial thoughts on entry of the oil but Renualt Main Dealer and a Renault specialist advised that from the diagnostic and inspection that faliure of the EGR valve would result in lubricant oil being pulled through the intake system (also documented on Honest John website).
My last post was really with regard to EGR valves that are not effected by oil rather just soot/carbon, system could be easily returned to normal at MOT time.
My last post was really with regard to EGR valves that are not effected by oil rather just soot/carbon, system could be easily returned to normal at MOT time.
Previously following my visit to a specialist the Renault main dealer confirmed that a closed (stuck) EGR valve would draw lubricating oil from the engine as it contributed to breathing. This has been documented on quite a few web sites etc. though I do not know how it gets into the induction system as you say.
Got the car back from the garage and the source of oil as I suspected was the turbo, the intercooler was full of oil causing an air restriction as well.
Oh the joys of Renault ownership!
Got the car back from the garage and the source of oil as I suspected was the turbo, the intercooler was full of oil causing an air restriction as well.
Oh the joys of Renault ownership!
Ye gods! I just received the quotation for a new turbo using genuine parts, fell off my chair before the intercooler and air cooler were mentioned.
Do all modern turbo diesel engines suffer from EGR valve proplems?
I was willing to percevier with the Espace but am loosing faith and am thinking of similar replacement. I do not do many miles so could consider a V6 petrol Espace and its thirst but I expect that these come with their own unique faults - any thoughts on reliable alternatives?
Do all modern turbo diesel engines suffer from EGR valve proplems?
I was willing to percevier with the Espace but am loosing faith and am thinking of similar replacement. I do not do many miles so could consider a V6 petrol Espace and its thirst but I expect that these come with their own unique faults - any thoughts on reliable alternatives?
Edited by Doug Shep on Wednesday 13th January 19:01
Hi All,
A quick update - the garage are doing sterling work and it would appear following a strip down that it was not the turbo etc.
Oil leak over the engine was a poorly secured pipe - sorted however they are rapidly running ut of ideas how the oil is getting in the system and there is a problem with back pressure from the turbo I believe.
The inlet manifold has been replaced, the engine compression tested (fine) and the turbo drain being checked again (however this was thought to be unlikely).
I suggested that could some kind of blockage or restriction in the exhaust or Cat is this feasible?
A quick update - the garage are doing sterling work and it would appear following a strip down that it was not the turbo etc.
Oil leak over the engine was a poorly secured pipe - sorted however they are rapidly running ut of ideas how the oil is getting in the system and there is a problem with back pressure from the turbo I believe.
The inlet manifold has been replaced, the engine compression tested (fine) and the turbo drain being checked again (however this was thought to be unlikely).
I suggested that could some kind of blockage or restriction in the exhaust or Cat is this feasible?
Gassing Station | French Bred | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff