Which model mini? (Newbie looking)

[paladin20]

Ok so I am looking for a little fun car, and lately the choice has been narrowed down to a honda civic, a mazda2 1.5, or (of course) a mini...

But the issue I have is with which would be the best/most sensible one to go for.

My max budget is about £4.5k, and the 3 cars I have kinda lined up are ones like these:


2006 standard Cooper with chilli pack, 70k miles, £4k: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

2006 Cooper S with chilli pack (and LSD), 62k miles, £4.5k: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

2007 mk2 standard cooper, 67k miles, £5k (I'd try and knock them down a little): http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...



So I know from research that the best years for a mk1 are 2005 and 2006, to avoid most of the major issues... but I also know the mk2 cooper is a better engine etc than a mk1 cooper.
...Except that the early mk2's have a lot of issues of their own!

The other thing I would like some opinions on is the power of the standard cooper... it's more than a 1.5 mazda2, but less than the civic, and I guess I wanted to know what people think of the smaller engine for a daily driver (including occasional motorway trips). I am struggling to get a decent test drive on both cars, I know they both are great on b-roads and a-roads, but motorway tests are trickier.

So I guess I'm looking for advice on two fronts -

1. Is a late mk1 cooper likely to be a better/more reliable purchase over an early mk2? Despite the difference in tax and mpg.

2. Does a standard cooper have the power to handle daily commutes and motorways, or is it a bit noisy and a cooper-S would be a more sensible investment.


Obviously this is all opinions, just after some guidance while I book more test drives!

[paladin20]

mon the fish said:

If you can accept 32mpg and £285 road tax, Cooper S all the way. They're addictive, and give you the power that you miss in the Cooper

My current car is an MR2 mk3, so I average 35mpg when i drive sensibly... the cooper s wont be hugely worse on petrol, and only £40 a year more on tax, and is actually faster haha. plus i gain seats and boot space. So I think I can accept it. But if the supercharger is mostly wasted on normal roads, then I could probably be happy with a normal cooper as well. Hence the deep thinking before I make a decision :P

Currently the supercharger is a temptation, just cos I'm thinking... woooooosh

[paladin20]

Thanks for the advice, i dont think that r56 has a sunroof but ill keep an eye out for it!

Problem with the s is that while the ones im looking at are maybe £300-500 cheaper than the r56, they will cost me at least £400-500 per year more to run, without even going into the potential failures! I need something reliable too.

My heart does kinda want a supercharger, but only because then i can say i have one lol. Id barely ever drive like id need it, but ill still be paying for it in insurance/tax/pumps.

Ill test drive and see

[paladin20]

I went and saw this car:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...


Seemed very tidy, though it seemed to be missing a few things. No 'sport' button that I could see, which I though was standard on all the R56's in the UK. Also no DSC button by the gearstick (i think thats where the dsc button is). So no DSC either. Cloth seats.

Has air con and a nice paint job, and the mileage isnt bad. Also a premium 12 month warranty. But not sure it will hold its value well without the extra options.

Was a nice little car though.



I would agree that a late R53 would be better than an early R56 Cooper S, but I don't recall there being many issues with the R56 justa coopers... they seem to be pretty well built cars (though not as much crazy fun).

[paladin20]

DavidLScott said:

Blimey!! You can have my soon to be advertised well specced 2005 R53 JCW with 55k for £5500.
Fantastic car but not getting used.
My wife has a Cooper and it's like a slug compared to the JCW.

I have to admit I don't keep an eye on the fuel consumption but my everyday 3.0i X3 only does 24 mpg so anything is better but who cares when you're having fun.

Edited by DavidLScott on Thursday 17th September 20:16

Tempting, but I have seen well-specced 2006 R53's with 61k for £4500, with 3 months warranty etc, so I'm not sure if yours is that much of a bargain!! Unless it has all the servicing and niggles well taken care of etc.... even then its above my budget at that price. I do like the colour though! Where are you based?

There's even a 2005 cooper S john cooper works near me for £5500, only 3 months warranty but still tempting. If I had the money I would.

Edited by paladin20 on Thursday 17th September 21:09

[paladin20]

DavidLScott said:

From what I've seen, £5500 seems a reasonable figure and well below most. £4500 from a dealer for a 2006 seems like someone who doesn't know what their selling.
The only niggles I've had have been specific, not generic and pretty minor.
For what it's worth, I'm in East Sussex.
Car won't go for sale until the beginning of October though.

I'm not sure, I only have autotrader to go by, and a lot of the 50-60k cooper S's from 2005/2006 seem to be in the £4500 bracket. But I can't say what all your optional extras are so it does make a difference.

Prices on pistonheads seem to be a lot higher than the average, but then I guess they are 'enthusiast' cars mostly

[paladin20]

As this car only has 120bhp im not sure ill miss the lsd or the 'sport button' options anyway. I dont have either in my current car. Ill have to install a parrot system though, for the usb and bluetooth additions.

[paladin20]

Well I plan to use the parrot kit... unless you mean the speakers are rubbish? are the r53 ones better?

Problem is, theR53 is going to keep costing me an extra £500+ a year to run, which is a lot... but still being tempting if the R56 isnt more reliable :/

Maybe I should look for a different car, but there's not much quite like the mini.

[paladin20]

DavidLScott said:

Mine's got Harmon Kardon ;) and iPod sync.

Yeh I think both the ones I'm looking at (the R53's) only have boost, but I have a better headunit I can already install anyway so that wouldn't bother me. It's only in R56 that I'm stuck with the installed option.

Currently considering two different fully-stocked R53's with 61k and 62k on the clocks, £4500 and £4750. Just would have to hope that anything that goes wrong, happens during my 3 months warranty!

I do really like your car david, but I'm in somerset and I'm not sure it's worth the long drive and an extra £1k, especially as I wouldn't be able to afford any repairs if something went wrong (not suggesting it would, but you never know with these haha)


edit:
Haha just saw your edit, don't worry I would be happy to buy a car from a pistonhead, as generally enthusiast cars are well looked after! Unfortunately yours is out of my price range.

I have actually considered an R50 instead of an R56, but weirdly the lower-mileage ones seem to be selling for around £4000 to £4500... so its only £500 difference between them and an equivalently well-specced cooper S. And that is a much harder decision to make haha.

I'm also noticing that the colour of this R56 I looked at, nightfire red I believe?... I am yet to find any other minis in that colour. Which is a shame because I think it's by far the best colour I've seen so far haha.

Edited by paladin20 on Friday 18th September 17:31

[paladin20]

This one has also come up.. Cooper S, 57k miles, seems to come with all the extras including the additional dial for the speedo, so the big central dial is used for other things. Has gone on my list of ones I should take a look at.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[paladin20]

Is the problem with the roof that if it breaks it just won't open? Cos if so... It'll still be a glass roof vs a solid metal one, so I'm not going to be too bothered!
If it's that it leaks then thats a bigger deal..

[paladin20]

Well thanks, it's definitly something I will test when I see it. But if it goes wrong outside of warranty I will probably just make sure the roof is sealed shut and forget about it. Still nice for the extra sunlight haha. It won't be a dealbreaker, more worried about the engine etc really.

[paladin20]

DavidLScott said:

That was my theory.
If you have air con, the sunroof is relatively redundant for ventilation except when the car is like an oven because you've parked in the open and it has a sunroof. . . I always forget to close the liner.

Haha yeh, pretty much what I'd do!

I just test drove a normal 1.6 cooper, and I have to say its made me question whether the extra expense of a cooper S is worth it for me... They get up to 70/80 pretty nippily, dont seem to have any problem overtaking, and the handling is exactly the same obviously (or close enough, depening on which suspension choice they have). After driving it, it's gotten a lot harder to justify, the cooper is still a lot of fun by itself!

Maybe if I lived in a country where I had an autobahn or something...


Unfortunately, finding a standard cooper but with all the extras (MFSW, cruise control, leather seats) seems to be pretty difficult - people only seem to have bothered pimping out the extras if they bought a cooper-S !!

[paladin20]

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...


Slightly 'off the wall' one I'm taking a look at. I first assumed that it would be a R50, as its 2006... but no, it must have been one of the first R56's. Even has a type of leather seats I haven't seen before, and has the sat-nav built in (though I'm slightly worried that a 10 year old satnav will be more annoying that useful.... I think the screen can do other things too though?)

Has the steptronic automatic, which from what I have read is actually pretty good in the R56. And super low mileage and a nice colour.


Unfortunately autotrader keeps giving me cars '15 miles away' that are actually in wales. Doesn't seem to realise there's a bloody great river/sea between me and there!

[paladin20]

DavidLScott said:

I don't actually rate the full leather in the Mini.
Pretty much everyone you see for sale is rucked on the seat pad.
We specced half leather on my wife's Cooper and my JCW had it anyway but I,wouldn't have bought one with leather.
In a BMW, Audi, Merc etc you would,expect leather but the half leather works so well in the Mini I wouldn't do otherwise.
Built in sat navs have always been pretty pointless IMHO as they seem to cost a fortune to update but I rarely use one as I like maps and tend to be able to find my way around pretty well.

ETA: should have looked at your ad first. They are totally different seats to the early ones so look way way better.

Edited by DavidLScott on Sunday 20th September 09:00

Yeh the seats look good, as does the mileage, and the auto box isn't a worry in the mini's from what I can see. I'd actually prefer it if this car *didn't* have the sat nav I think, but I assume I can leave the screen doing something different. I guess I shouldn't complain about having an extra thing haha.

[paladin20]

DavidLScott said:

You will when it gets you lost as it was last reprogrammed just before they finished the M25
I need the centre speedo as I struggle to read the digital one.
The trouble is, I'm old enough to have driven a 64 Mini in the late 70's for,a year or so so that is still easy for me to do.
I wouldn't have minded the extra steering wheel pod though but they seem quite rare.

I've seen a couple with the 'chrono' package, so you get the extra speedo above the steering wheel.

The sat nav still has a speedo around the edge, its only the centre that is a screen instead of... petrol and warning lights? Or whatever is normally in the centre of that gauge

[paladin20]

CarsOrBikes said:

I think the R53 or 1st gen is the better car with your budget. 1st two ads. The Cooper is 120hp and facelift S 170, but on the motorway driving normally both are good. You may only see 26/27 out of a 1st gen S in the real world staying with traffic with a couple of overtakes, so anything over 80 for sure. You keep saying the S will be 4/500pa dearer, but they will carry high mileages without serious engine issues normally. The later R56 shape has timing chain issues that don't always display preventative warnings, and there are a few engine configurations, some with Vanos units which are expensive and hard to diagnose correctly, often resulting on garages selling you more than you need, or repeat visits, that you pay for. The later model is a more comfortable car, and if that matters, along with a sixth gear, they are possibly the only superior attributes. If you like a car that feels sensitive and fun, that you can have a bit of a play in, and feel good, then the 1st gen does it better than any subsequent car.

The early engines are all the same bar a forged crank in the S, but most other parts are common. The Mini One with a Chilli pack and Sports seats which is a rare combination, with air conditioning, in a facelift car, would be the best for a daily actually. Crazy sounding but been there and regret selling. Admittedly I did remap it, but that is due to the One not achieving full throttle, and it's the only difference to the Cooper, so it ends up at 125hp. Then I fitted a camshaft, nothing else mind. It was brilliant, funny, and 10mph in terms of top speed compared to the S, but still slower to get there. It didn't matter, as it was fun, and mid thirties mpg, nearer 40 on a run.

The early engine is old school, and very strong with maintenance. You should be wary with a search for the lowest price. We are in a period where the values of these cars is being talked down. Just log on to any forum, and people will say they can be picked up for buttons. Yes, but sheds. The same exists at dealers, as these days, dealers do no prep to the cars and rely on crap warranties to repair faults they didn't look for. So for you as you mentioned it a couple of times, the warranty type and company is almost as important as the car. Definitely avoid a company Autoprotect offered anywhere, and the other end of the scale is WMS (Warranty Management Services) who can be more reassuring.

The sunroofs on later cars tend to stick on tilt, and they do make a repair kit, but rarely opted for as there is so much work in removing the cartridge, that fitting the kit which may not work, is a gamble most customers and garages don't wish to take or recommend, so the full cartridge can be 2.6k in parts on certain cars.

Equally the early automatic in an early car is a CVT which can be a total nightmare, they are a 'taught' transmission, which sometimes may require readapting, and sometimes a pain. The very late cars are a true auto with gears rather than pre programmed steps in a CVT type box, so my advise is increase the budget for a much later car in 'auto' or stick with manual.

The later engine in R56 also uses copious amounts of oil internally, aside from what leaks. The early one may leak in a few easy places to repair, but different. The later car also suffers, in low mileage cars, a build up of heavy condensation in the top of the cylinder head, which causes failed camshaft sensors, but more importantly, and sometimes missed when just a new sensor is chucked in, it rusts the camshaft and valve gear, and can cause significant expense.

The late engine is Peugeot, and the early Chrysler.

Some may warn you of power steering issues on the early car, but it is a simple electric hydraulic pump which you can by as an original part now from euro car parts at a fraction of BMW's prices, and it is very easy to swap. So don't worry, also they are all often a bit noisy when turning the wheel, but if really loud, take it as a warning. The symptom of failure is usually intermittent, and the steering can lock to non pas in an instant, and become heavier than a regular non pas car.

DSC on the later car can be a major cost, with modules having to be replaced at a parts cost over 1.2k, albeit some may say they can be repaired, but it's a gamble.

The early car can suffer a heavy clutch pedal, if you try one that is, walk away. Even if the garage or seller offers to fit a clutch for sale, they may have been driving it for ages like it, and damage will occur to engine thrust bearings if that happens, leading to rebuild although cars run. Like I say the engines are strong, and inherently will run longer with a problem compared to the latter.

Lots here perhaps, and sorry if it doesn't help. Ultimately buy on condition not price! Don't fret over loads of stamps in a book which means little if the person doing it hated Mini's and loved Citroens or Land Rovers, as it's worthless when no attention was paid to the car even though it may have got an oil change, it was probably the wrong oil. No Mini engine should rattle up top. Open the bonnet and listen. Also make sure any you view are started from cold for you, none of this warmed up for you crap. Put your hand on the engine. If it's quiet, light clutch, no visible leaks of significance, no water staining evident in the engine bay, no unusual smell, it's a start haha.

Moisture on the inside of the windows, possible water ingress, I've seen this on a few R56's, and boots not opening from the touch pad, which can be water related too.

No Mini should have any visible rust yet!

Look for non cheapie tyres! It reflects the interest in the rest of the vehicle in my humble opinion.

Cars with the Chrono pack, with the oil pressure and temperature in the centre, are great and my current car has it. Just those gauges are a tell tale of potential issues, and of course the water temp gauge which I don't think the later car has at all!

Only the 1st generation Cooper S may have a true LSD, go drive one, and put your foot in before an apex, they make them a different car. Superchargers shouldn't rattle, and you won't feel them come in like a turbo.........they're there all the time, no delay!

If you are remotely into the possibility of even minor tweaks later, you can get great things from the early car if chosen carefully, not listening to the majority, who these days often coax others to lower the cars, and change to silly exhausts, or intercoolers, that are not needed.

I think, reading all of what has been said, the latest early Cooper may prove a nice car. But for sts and giggles, with no looking back perhaps, the S might bring a fun aspect that other cars just don't have, if you get the right one?

Just my 2p after reading

Very useful post, thankyou!
Yeh, I started looking at R56 justa coopers mainly because I saw one in a really nice colour (nightfire red?) and it had a decent warranty. However as I've said, it was pretty much a basic model, cloth seats and no MFSW, and changing the stereo in the R56 is pretty much impossible. All not great points.

I am still considering R53's, but the reason they are approx £500 more a year is cos of insurance/tax/petrol costs all added together. Might be even more than that, all things considered.

The R50 in a 2005/2006 I think would be ideal for me, but finding one in good condition and with a bunch of decent options is becoming difficult! Generally it seems if someone went for a cooper S, they were more likely to also add the good options too.

Edit: Except that the R50 never had a 6 speed gearbox, which is a shame, though it would still be better on the motorway than an S for fuel haha

Edit: Also... doesn't that mean I could buy a mini one (for less money) and get it remapped to be essentially the same as a cooper but with a different badge? This seems... too easy?

Edited by paladin20 on Sunday 20th September 22:27

[paladin20]

Long posts are helpful! Thankyou!

Currently looking at a few different cars... still finding it hard to decide between a Cooper and a Cooper-S though! Might end up being decided by which car I find first in a good spec/price!

Cooper 52k, with a lot of upgrades (only missing the chrono package it seems, but does have the Harman stereo upgrade)
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Another cooper, more miles for slightly less money. Still has MFSW.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

And a cooper with no mfsw, but has the park lane seats and extras, 43k miles
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...




Cooper S - 52k miles and lots of maintenance, but fairly basic spec it seems. No cruise control. Blue leather seats?!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...


And two more very similar Cooper s - 62k miles, again pretty basic spec. One has bluetooth, but mini bluetooth may or may not work on my phone anyway. I'll probably install my own head unit.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...


Unfortunately the purple cooper s with a huge spec list has already sold probably because it was such a good deal haha. One thing that is strange to me, is that the Cooper and Cooper S's of the similar year and age are all very similar prices... obviously they might have problems that are being hidden, but I am mostly focussing on traders with warranties...

I just thought I'd post these up so if anyone has a few minutes to glance through they can let me know if one is noticably a better deal than another... the blue cooper S sounds like it's been well looked after (though I'm unsure on the colour scheme haha).


And again, thanks for the long posts, they were really informative


Edit:
Also, I think that if I do end up getting a mini (which may still change), it will have to be an R50 or R53... because most of my music and audiobooks I listen to are currently on USB sticks or on my phone, which requires a bluetooth A2DP connection. I could maybe get it to go with just a usb port, but none of the cars in my budget have this! And retrofitting is expensive.
So I think my solution is to take the stereo out of my current car, and install it in the mini. Or a different headunit... if I can get one which works with the MFSW that would be a bonus. And this is significantly harder, or nearly impoosible, to do decently in the r56 models!

(Mostly the MFSW is on my list because it means I get cruise control, but thats not a dealbreaker I guess. Would be nice though. )

Edited by paladin20 on Monday 21st September 03:02

Edited by paladin20 on Monday 21st September 05:37

[paladin20]

CarsOrBikes said:

Really, that Cooper is nice, good find.

Edited by CarsOrBikes on Monday 21st September 11:21

Is that referring to the park lane one? Yeh its very nice, only thing i wish it had extra is cruise control. Not a deal breaker because I've never had it before though haha.

[paladin20]

DavidLScott said:

I don't even know if the cruise control works on mine as there is nowhere to use it in this country.
I use it in my X3 in France on the autoroutes but I've maybe only ever used it a couple of times in this country in the 11 cumulative years of ownership of cars with it fitted.

Yeh I am not sure how often I'd use it, but the cruise control, especially because of the MFSW, does help a lot with resale etc.

I would do without it if the car I bought was especially good as a deal, which that park lane one seems to be...