Summer Rugby Union Internationals
Discussion
We have England in New Zealand, Ireland in Argentina, Wales in South Africa, France in Australia, Scotland doing some multi tour with games against the US and Canada before heading to South Africa. Italy are in Japan.
Predications? Southern Hemisphere dominance status quo to be maintained with Ireland being the only one I can see winning a series.
England, the organisation of the tour clashing with the premiership final is farce. I'd have fancied them to be competitive in the first test if they could have put out a first choice 15 out. They've proven in the last 12 months they're a hard side to beat but with a scratch-ish XV for the first test they could get well beaten then NZ will have the momentum and time to re-gel and go on to win the next two comfortably. We could have really taken it to them with our first choice pack but minus Marler it's going to be a new-ish look front 3 and quite green. The NZ front three compete but would have been there to get stuck into, It's not such an issue as it would be say if the tour was to SA where you need your best front 3 or you're gona get hammered.
10 is an issue. Cipriani? Now Ford is out. Burns has had a season to forget and then there's young Slade. Cipriani kind of goes against SL selection policy so if he's going to play him he needs to keep him in the set up, and to do that will need to play out of his skin.
It would be nice to win one but I can see 3-0 NZ, there's also a game against the Crusaders.
Potential 1st test side looks interesting against #1 test side in their own backyard= baptism of fire:
1. Marler
2. Ward
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Attwood
6. Robshaw
7. Kvesic/Haskell
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Cipriani/Slade/Burns
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
11. Yarde
14. Rokoduguni
15. Brown
How do our Welsh friends think your lot will fair? Lots of injuries across the board going into a meat grinder I fear.
France in Australia is an interesting one, I think it's a full 3 tests? Could nick one but a series defeat-allot of the Aussies are going well domestically.
Predications? Southern Hemisphere dominance status quo to be maintained with Ireland being the only one I can see winning a series.
England, the organisation of the tour clashing with the premiership final is farce. I'd have fancied them to be competitive in the first test if they could have put out a first choice 15 out. They've proven in the last 12 months they're a hard side to beat but with a scratch-ish XV for the first test they could get well beaten then NZ will have the momentum and time to re-gel and go on to win the next two comfortably. We could have really taken it to them with our first choice pack but minus Marler it's going to be a new-ish look front 3 and quite green. The NZ front three compete but would have been there to get stuck into, It's not such an issue as it would be say if the tour was to SA where you need your best front 3 or you're gona get hammered.
10 is an issue. Cipriani? Now Ford is out. Burns has had a season to forget and then there's young Slade. Cipriani kind of goes against SL selection policy so if he's going to play him he needs to keep him in the set up, and to do that will need to play out of his skin.
It would be nice to win one but I can see 3-0 NZ, there's also a game against the Crusaders.
Potential 1st test side looks interesting against #1 test side in their own backyard= baptism of fire:
1. Marler
2. Ward
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Attwood
6. Robshaw
7. Kvesic/Haskell
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Cipriani/Slade/Burns
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
11. Yarde
14. Rokoduguni
15. Brown
How do our Welsh friends think your lot will fair? Lots of injuries across the board going into a meat grinder I fear.
France in Australia is an interesting one, I think it's a full 3 tests? Could nick one but a series defeat-allot of the Aussies are going well domestically.
GravelBen said:
ABs will probably have a few players injured after super15, but there is enough player depth that I like to think we'll still give you a good hiding. 
Been a funny old season for the NZ S15 teams generally. The Chiefs have been on the end of a few hidings and will struggle to get into the play off while the Hurricanes and Highlanders are in with a shout. I can see a home semi and final for the Sharks and with home advantage proving to be key over the years think they'll have it.The AB talent conveyor belt appears to be plenty strong enough still so would agree if there are any injuries you'll have plenty of cover.
I think the situation with Wales is theyve found themselves in a position that if they adopted a hard line approach theyd be fooked or at least severely weaken their first choice XV. 1/2p and Davies are gone next season a long with Roberts whose coming to the end of his first season in France. Im not sure how much truth there is in it but Ive heard pundits discussing how player welfare/injuries arent as well managed in the top 14 as say in the premiership? Less restriction in terms of the salary cap so the big boys just have huge, someone gets injured someone else slots in-I can see this with Toulon but will have to find a source to quote.
SA, I believe would certainly enhance the England team and comparing him to Billy V he seems to offer the ball carrying whilst being able to disrupt/win opposition ball. SL stance also revolves around player availability, I can see that point of view but it seems to be workable for other unions.
SA, I believe would certainly enhance the England team and comparing him to Billy V he seems to offer the ball carrying whilst being able to disrupt/win opposition ball. SL stance also revolves around player availability, I can see that point of view but it seems to be workable for other unions.
I hadn't heard much of Sheridan since this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/intern...
But believe he has played since, although I don't follow French rugby that closely other than in the HC and don't recall seeing him anytime lately. Brilliant destructive scrummager. Looseheads however while we don't have a wealth of riches-Corbs aside Marler and Mako V are improving young and bring something else to the team. I'm a little more worried about tight head, Dan Cole looks like he needs more surgery. He'd had an impressive appearance record up until he got injured which isn't surprising as he was getting flogged at Leicester putting in consecutive 80 mins in both the league and HC at one stage.
But believe he has played since, although I don't follow French rugby that closely other than in the HC and don't recall seeing him anytime lately. Brilliant destructive scrummager. Looseheads however while we don't have a wealth of riches-Corbs aside Marler and Mako V are improving young and bring something else to the team. I'm a little more worried about tight head, Dan Cole looks like he needs more surgery. He'd had an impressive appearance record up until he got injured which isn't surprising as he was getting flogged at Leicester putting in consecutive 80 mins in both the league and HC at one stage.
Not a bad first quarter from England. Hopefully the couple of decisions going against us will even themselves over the course of the game.
ETA
HT, allot of handling errors and a bit of indiscipline but England going well. I still expect the All Blacks to cut loose at some point although I don't see from where, they are looking dangerous moving the ball quickly through the backs, England forwards are going well.
I wasn't filled with confidence when Burns was picked to start due to his lousy form but he's playing very well. His tackling has been impressive.
ETA
HT, allot of handling errors and a bit of indiscipline but England going well. I still expect the All Blacks to cut loose at some point although I don't see from where, they are looking dangerous moving the ball quickly through the backs, England forwards are going well.
I wasn't filled with confidence when Burns was picked to start due to his lousy form but he's playing very well. His tackling has been impressive.
Edited by a311 on Saturday 7th June 09:27
Kermit power said:
Is Nigel Evans going to give a knock on against England every time they touch a ball and don't keep it in hand? 
Even the NZ commentary team have been saying "well that's clearly not a knock on!"
Nige isn't having his best. I reckon they Kiwis were saying in the build up they'd have been a bot apprehensive due to the NH interpretation of the scrum.Even the NZ commentary team have been saying "well that's clearly not a knock on!"
It's starting to open up a bit now but England are doing well!
Kermit power said:
Those England players can be soooo proud of themselves, despite the result. Nigel Evans did not have a good day today.
I frequent a few rugby forums, found them after various Lions Tours. Things I picked up on the build up to this one were, our colonial cousins didn't have a clue who more than half of our side were today, Robshaw they see as a bit of journey man-he was one of the best players on the pitch, was Richie McKaw playing?! They were expecting to cream our scrum today.
There's more respect for Stuart Lancaster's side than I expected down under and they're quite fancied for the World Cup. We got a bit over confident at times trying to play too much in our own half, we need to develop a cutting edge from somewhere you won't get many chances against the top sides and when you get them you have to take them.
NZ can't play that badly again can they? Gona be tasty next week.
Mr Snap said:
Hope Nigel Owens gets binned by the IRU, that was dreadful reffing.
He's been one of, if not the best ref in the world IMO for a few years now. He wasn't great in the HC semi between Sar/Cle and the playoff final between Wasps and Stade in the recent games I've watched-despite the decisions going against England I'd rather have him reffing an England game than anyone else.So people, with the premiership finalists coming back in next week who'd you drop?
The stand ins generally had very good games but.
Lawes comes back in for me (Parling played very well), as does Wood, Care for Youngs-I wasn't impressed with Youngs and him loosing the ball ultimately led to the NZ try.
I reckon we do need a play maker at 12 rather than 2 lumps, MT had a decent enough game today made allot of meters but fell off a couple of tackles a bit too easy which suggest his technique needs work. Eastmond showed potential today, I think Burrell has enough of this in the bank lark that Lancaster talks about to get a start. Until injuries came along Lancaster seemed to like the MT, BB partnership.
Brown had an iffy day by his very high standards, I don't want to see Ash the splash back in the England team for the foreseeable future, May looks like a rabbit caught in between the headlights at times but also made some good running, looks like he needs to back himself and clam down a bit IMO. Yarde was a bit naïve at times.
8. Morgan had a stormer today, I reckon Billy V will start next week but Morgan IMO has the better skill set than Billy V at the moment-controls the ball at the base of the scrum very well, he's not just a wrecking ball and got a decent turn of pace and feet for a big lump. Regardless nice to see two very good 8's in the team rather than relying on utility back rowers.
10. Farrell will come back in, those who post regularly on the 6N forum etc will know I've never been his biggest fan, however he's beginning to show signs that he will improve and become a more rounded 10. Burns apart from the rest of his game Burns tackling was superb today and for me showed that if he can bring his domestic form up next season offers a more rounded 10 than Farrell IMO.
NZ lacked allot of intensity at the breakdown for most of the game surely this will be highlighted, but from what I saw today there's a opportunity to win it in the forwards. Saying all that Today might have been the closest margin of defeat in the series, NZ are notoriously slow starters, recently Ire and Fra spring to mind and will improve, but so should England........
The stand ins generally had very good games but.
Lawes comes back in for me (Parling played very well), as does Wood, Care for Youngs-I wasn't impressed with Youngs and him loosing the ball ultimately led to the NZ try.
I reckon we do need a play maker at 12 rather than 2 lumps, MT had a decent enough game today made allot of meters but fell off a couple of tackles a bit too easy which suggest his technique needs work. Eastmond showed potential today, I think Burrell has enough of this in the bank lark that Lancaster talks about to get a start. Until injuries came along Lancaster seemed to like the MT, BB partnership.
Brown had an iffy day by his very high standards, I don't want to see Ash the splash back in the England team for the foreseeable future, May looks like a rabbit caught in between the headlights at times but also made some good running, looks like he needs to back himself and clam down a bit IMO. Yarde was a bit naïve at times.
8. Morgan had a stormer today, I reckon Billy V will start next week but Morgan IMO has the better skill set than Billy V at the moment-controls the ball at the base of the scrum very well, he's not just a wrecking ball and got a decent turn of pace and feet for a big lump. Regardless nice to see two very good 8's in the team rather than relying on utility back rowers.
10. Farrell will come back in, those who post regularly on the 6N forum etc will know I've never been his biggest fan, however he's beginning to show signs that he will improve and become a more rounded 10. Burns apart from the rest of his game Burns tackling was superb today and for me showed that if he can bring his domestic form up next season offers a more rounded 10 than Farrell IMO.
NZ lacked allot of intensity at the breakdown for most of the game surely this will be highlighted, but from what I saw today there's a opportunity to win it in the forwards. Saying all that Today might have been the closest margin of defeat in the series, NZ are notoriously slow starters, recently Ire and Fra spring to mind and will improve, but so should England........
Tuilagi doesn't have the skill set to be a winger but there's plenty of successful wingers out there past and present that don't either. Savea being back is good news for the AB's his try scoring record is impressive. I thought May had a good game last week, better than Yarde by a stretch but him looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights at times scares me a bit if the pressure is on. He certainly didn't deserve to drop out of the match day 23 if that's the case.
Parling had a very good game last week, but after this years 6N Lawes proved he can run the lineout and brings allot more for me around the field. He will make much more of an impact sub than Parling would though, who for me as much as he's been a very consistent performer for England is a bit light weight. I think we can really take it to their pack on Saturday and having Lawes on would have made that an easier job.
Twelvetrees needs to play out of his skin, I'm still to be convinced he's international class.
Let Wilson do his job in the scrum and otherwise keep the ball away from him when in possession..... That bench is unbelievable though. It's going to be a huge game.
Parling had a very good game last week, but after this years 6N Lawes proved he can run the lineout and brings allot more for me around the field. He will make much more of an impact sub than Parling would though, who for me as much as he's been a very consistent performer for England is a bit light weight. I think we can really take it to their pack on Saturday and having Lawes on would have made that an easier job.
Twelvetrees needs to play out of his skin, I'm still to be convinced he's international class.
Let Wilson do his job in the scrum and otherwise keep the ball away from him when in possession..... That bench is unbelievable though. It's going to be a huge game.
Mr Snap said:
Parling, light weight? He may not be as showy as Lawes but he's very effective. He made 11 tackles - the same as Launchbury - with only Morgan beating him at 12.
As for his ability around the field, remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onPi60021Jg
Using Lawes as an impact player, after Parling has ground them down for 60/70mins, makes a lot of sense.
So you'd pick Parling over Lawes on current form? Not me. As for light weight he's not got the level of physicality that Lawes brings IMO and is, well a bit lighter too.As for his ability around the field, remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onPi60021Jg
Using Lawes as an impact player, after Parling has ground them down for 60/70mins, makes a lot of sense.
I'm not anti Parling, I just think this season Lawes had finally shown the step up to International class and had the makings of long partnership with Launchbury given their ages so was a bit disappointed he hadn't made the starting XV. He was immense in the premiership final too.
I would agree that he's the potential to make more of an impact than Parling from the bench, but I don't see him as a flashy player, tackles hard and carries well, like most world class locks allot of the good stuff they do goes unseen.
I would agree that he's the potential to make more of an impact than Parling from the bench, but I don't see him as a flashy player, tackles hard and carries well, like most world class locks allot of the good stuff they do goes unseen.
prand said:
a311 said:
It was bit of daft time last weekend 0835 GMT
Same this time round too as well as the last test and Midweek game against the Crusaders.
Not sure what time you would like it - a lunchtime/afternoon would be middle of the night in NZ. At least this is on at a time when most people are getting up and are awake.Same this time round too as well as the last test and Midweek game against the Crusaders.
It was error strewn but what a half of rugby!
Lousy conceding a penalty at the death there I'd have felt with a converted try cushion we might have had a chance in the second half (which of course we still do).
NZ are improved, allot more physicality at the breakdown from them. You just feel when they get into a try scoring position they'll take it, while England at best seem 50:50.
Bench and it's timing could win or loose the game I feel.
Lousy conceding a penalty at the death there I'd have felt with a converted try cushion we might have had a chance in the second half (which of course we still do).
NZ are improved, allot more physicality at the breakdown from them. You just feel when they get into a try scoring position they'll take it, while England at best seem 50:50.
Bench and it's timing could win or loose the game I feel.
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