Summer Rugby International Tours
Discussion
So we have the 6N champions in Australia, despite the huge amount of games the top players are expected to play these days it's nice to see a proper 3 match tour taking place.
The Welsh are in NZ-can't see them getting any joy so a series whitewash
The Scots are in Japan. See how Japan are getting on without Jones. Scotland should win if they take a full strength squad but wouldn't be surprised to see Japan win a test.
Ireland are in South Africa. Hard place to go at the best of times and Ireland are on a downward curve at the moment looking to rebuild. Connacht are going well domestically and their team is full of home grown players. South Africa will bully them and will get whitewashed.
The French are in Argentina (if they can find the fuel for the planes)
For England I think anything less than at least a win would be seen as failure. I can see the Aussies taking it 2-1. Nice to see Ash the Splash refusing to go with the Saxon's (despite what his Saracens coach is saying). Hopefully that's put a final nail in the coffin of the petulant little child's international career. His from has been good but at least Jones is recognizing that with 3.5 years until the next WC it's time to give younger lads the experience.
The Welsh are in NZ-can't see them getting any joy so a series whitewash
The Scots are in Japan. See how Japan are getting on without Jones. Scotland should win if they take a full strength squad but wouldn't be surprised to see Japan win a test.
Ireland are in South Africa. Hard place to go at the best of times and Ireland are on a downward curve at the moment looking to rebuild. Connacht are going well domestically and their team is full of home grown players. South Africa will bully them and will get whitewashed.
The French are in Argentina (if they can find the fuel for the planes)
For England I think anything less than at least a win would be seen as failure. I can see the Aussies taking it 2-1. Nice to see Ash the Splash refusing to go with the Saxon's (despite what his Saracens coach is saying). Hopefully that's put a final nail in the coffin of the petulant little child's international career. His from has been good but at least Jones is recognizing that with 3.5 years until the next WC it's time to give younger lads the experience.
GravelBen said:
The first game will be the best chance for Wales to pull something out of the bag I think, the All Blacks are usually a bit wobbly their first game of the season and a bunch of senior players have recently retired from international rugby.
Such is constant conveyor belt of talent in NZ I can't see them struggling to fill the gaps left after the retirements. Not long to go now. What are your predictions for the series? England I'll stick with 2-1 TO ENGLAND 
History is against England to win a series in the Southern hemisphere, I think there's a team that could be put together a very strong challenge but I'm just not sure Jones will pick it yet or the experience is there. There are rumbles that Jones could be ready to drop Robshaw in favour of starting Itoje at 6, but if Haskell is starting at 7 then we're still short at least one man who can compete at the breakdown against Pocock and Hooper.
Will be interesting to see how the scrum goes after the annihilation in the WC. The England front row with Hartley over Youngs is a different prospect though. You'd expect Vunipola to start with Marler no longer involved. His scrummaging has come a long way but I think he's always been better off the bench. You've got to admire EJ's approach since becoming coach. Tom Youngs is a good player but too deficient in the set piece so Jones has just cut him loose.
Assuming Australia go with Hooper and Pocock at 7 and 8 respectively as seen in the WC final what they gain at the breakdown they loose in the lineout and England's lineout has functioned almost immaculately since EJ took over.
I'm loathed to say it but Alex Goode's form has been way better than Mike Brown's. I hope Farrell starts at 10 but can see a 6N repeat of Farrell at 12 and Ford 10 although rumours seem to be Ben Te'o could start at 12 despite never playing a game in England domestically, I'd take him over Burrell though.
Head says 2-1 Australia. I can see them taking the first 2 and then having an experimental side in the last test which England will take.
Heart says England will go out and dominate the set piece, with our backs firing and winning it 2-1
History is against England to win a series in the Southern hemisphere, I think there's a team that could be put together a very strong challenge but I'm just not sure Jones will pick it yet or the experience is there. There are rumbles that Jones could be ready to drop Robshaw in favour of starting Itoje at 6, but if Haskell is starting at 7 then we're still short at least one man who can compete at the breakdown against Pocock and Hooper.
Will be interesting to see how the scrum goes after the annihilation in the WC. The England front row with Hartley over Youngs is a different prospect though. You'd expect Vunipola to start with Marler no longer involved. His scrummaging has come a long way but I think he's always been better off the bench. You've got to admire EJ's approach since becoming coach. Tom Youngs is a good player but too deficient in the set piece so Jones has just cut him loose.
Assuming Australia go with Hooper and Pocock at 7 and 8 respectively as seen in the WC final what they gain at the breakdown they loose in the lineout and England's lineout has functioned almost immaculately since EJ took over.
I'm loathed to say it but Alex Goode's form has been way better than Mike Brown's. I hope Farrell starts at 10 but can see a 6N repeat of Farrell at 12 and Ford 10 although rumours seem to be Ben Te'o could start at 12 despite never playing a game in England domestically, I'd take him over Burrell though.
Head says 2-1 Australia. I can see them taking the first 2 and then having an experimental side in the last test which England will take.
Heart says England will go out and dominate the set piece, with our backs firing and winning it 2-1
Kermit power said:
Quite surprised Clifford wasn't even on the bench. Is he injured?
Will have to do some digging on this. Two locks on the bench suggests Itoje might cover the back row if needed?Ultimately I wouldn't break a partnership that is working well and so familiar with each other at clunb level. Lauchbury was excellent against Wales and Lawes who I'd all but written off was also impressive.
Agree with Farrell at 10.
Nowell can feel hard done by BUT i think he's short of a pace for a top class/world class winger. Makes up for it in other areas and can cover 12-15 if required.
Not a fan of Burrell, confidence player and goes missing when too often but 12 is still a problem.
I'd have Care over Youngs, just my preference. They're both 50% very good scrummies and 50% s
te. If only they could be moulded into one player.Don't like Haskell and Robshaw, too much responsibility put on Billy to do all the carrying. Neither is great in the lineout either which is one area I saw England having a clear edge in their favour.
Welshbeef said:
If Eng v France were playing then if the result had no bearing on Wales championship position the. I'd not care either way just enjoy it as a neutral
fk that and the surrender Monkeys! Like a lot of people I have family from every corner of the British Isles, so unless it's England I'd always support the any home nation.
Haven't had chance to reply from the Eng Vs Aus game I didn't get to watch it until Sunday.
Didn't see that result. Why can't Haskell be that good more often?!
Not often I or anyone will say this (especially against Aus) but England were the far smarter team and were clear winner on the penalty count. If EJ can bring brains and discipline to the knuckle draggers we'll be hard to beat. Takes some cojones to sub someone off that early in Burrell but Farrell and Ford were excellent as a pairing.
tarnished said:
This is all looking like EJ's made an incredible difference remarkably quickly.
Can it really be as simple as that?
He would have said himself that the foundations of a good team were already there. They were probably missing that lat 10-15% that a world class coach can bring and a little tinkering with selection.Can it really be as simple as that?
Farrell at 12 on Saturday and Yarde dropped for Nowell. Brown is very off the boil but appreciate his experience keeps him in and has plenty in the bank.
Wish they had mid-week games like a Lions tour.
Not often you'll hear it but England were far smarter last weekend, Aus pen count was ridiculous AKA England-esque.
Aus have re-jigged the front row and Pocock is out with a broken eye socket.
England could sneak it and take series........
In other news the Eng U20's beat Aus to make the semis.
Wish they had mid-week games like a Lions tour.
Not often you'll hear it but England were far smarter last weekend, Aus pen count was ridiculous AKA England-esque.
Aus have re-jigged the front row and Pocock is out with a broken eye socket.
England could sneak it and take series........
In other news the Eng U20's beat Aus to make the semis.
Satisfying to see Australia outplayed on the field and out thought off it in their own backyard.
You have to take your hat off to Eddie Jones for what he's done in such a short space of time. I dared to dream England could win the series but realistically thought they'd do well to win a game. Saturday's conditions showed in rugby when called for it's best not to have the ball Australia brought the same game plan as the first test, England were bloody streetwise in this game, didn't commit men to the ruck and just concentrated on the defensive press which shut the Aus 10 down.
EJ's masterstroke was gambling on leaving emptying the bench. Aus started with theirs on around the 50 odd minute mark, I thought our forwards would be dead on their feet and was wishing he'd bring some fresh legs on earlier.
Australia will be wondering where they go from here. They have a plan A and no plan B, it's just keep trying plan A. So so naive, they played it like a Super Rugby game. Foley isn't a great place kicker but they turned down sooo many 3 pointers.
Their forwards got bullied (great to see) They lacked some beef in the forwards particularly in the back row. Pocock injured so they brought in another 7 to play at 8. Hooper is a great player but I'm seeing him as a luxury player more and more, he plays like a back, tackles well and is good over the ball but when you've got a work rate 6 and light weight 8 on the pitch you can't afford to have a little fella at 7.
I think the Aus cupboard must be bare. They went for a bosh 12 and have no Matt Giteau waiting in the wings to come in as a high quality play maker at 12.
Hope for a 3-0 whitewash for the cherry on top.
You have to take your hat off to Eddie Jones for what he's done in such a short space of time. I dared to dream England could win the series but realistically thought they'd do well to win a game. Saturday's conditions showed in rugby when called for it's best not to have the ball Australia brought the same game plan as the first test, England were bloody streetwise in this game, didn't commit men to the ruck and just concentrated on the defensive press which shut the Aus 10 down.
EJ's masterstroke was gambling on leaving emptying the bench. Aus started with theirs on around the 50 odd minute mark, I thought our forwards would be dead on their feet and was wishing he'd bring some fresh legs on earlier.
Australia will be wondering where they go from here. They have a plan A and no plan B, it's just keep trying plan A. So so naive, they played it like a Super Rugby game. Foley isn't a great place kicker but they turned down sooo many 3 pointers.
Their forwards got bullied (great to see) They lacked some beef in the forwards particularly in the back row. Pocock injured so they brought in another 7 to play at 8. Hooper is a great player but I'm seeing him as a luxury player more and more, he plays like a back, tackles well and is good over the ball but when you've got a work rate 6 and light weight 8 on the pitch you can't afford to have a little fella at 7.
I think the Aus cupboard must be bare. They went for a bosh 12 and have no Matt Giteau waiting in the wings to come in as a high quality play maker at 12.
Hope for a 3-0 whitewash for the cherry on top.
irocfan said:
well the Hask is out - his replacement is Taimana Harrison (with "Jack Clifford to finish", according to EJ)
Would have been nice to see Clifford to get a start however when he played in the Wales game he didn't appear to do all that much 'graft' so Harrison is a more like for like replacement.Haskell has been immense.
Fantastic. The series win was brilliant but the whitewash epic.
Really good test match to watch, as the pundits were saying before the game third tests tend to be really open and that's what we got. Australia were better in quite a few areas, lots of missed tackles from England given last weeks efforts. Brown has been pretty poor for me this series, poor decision making, running rather than kicking the ball in the wrong areas.
England the smarter test match side under the tutelage of EJ.
Brilliant.
Really good test match to watch, as the pundits were saying before the game third tests tend to be really open and that's what we got. Australia were better in quite a few areas, lots of missed tackles from England given last weeks efforts. Brown has been pretty poor for me this series, poor decision making, running rather than kicking the ball in the wrong areas.
England the smarter test match side under the tutelage of EJ.
Brilliant.
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