Wiggins - could this be a Similar issue as Lance A ?
Discussion
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/18/brad...
Strictly talking about taking the drugs not pushing others to take them?
Could this destroy his reputation & worst case have history with his name removed?
Strictly talking about taking the drugs not pushing others to take them?
Could this destroy his reputation & worst case have history with his name removed?
So 7 years of Tour de France without a winner
Now the real possibility of a further 3 if Wiggins is stripped.
What about those 5 Olympic Folds..... all stripped.
Should his OBE be removed too
His sponsorships should be removed
Demand recovery of winning prize money
Froome in the mix as well.
Basically cycling is proving beyond doubt to be a filthy drug infested sport with what appears to be winners happily lying for their own greed.
Now the real possibility of a further 3 if Wiggins is stripped.
What about those 5 Olympic Folds..... all stripped.
Should his OBE be removed too
His sponsorships should be removed
Demand recovery of winning prize money
Froome in the mix as well.
Basically cycling is proving beyond doubt to be a filthy drug infested sport with what appears to be winners happily lying for their own greed.
mcelliott said:
What do you mean proving it’s self dirty? Do you know the history of the sport?
So 10 years with of Tour de France winners who are drug takers5 Olympic gold medals dirty
The fact Bag many have said everyone does it so you cannot otherwise you wouldn’t even be present.
If you think 15 events which were dirty fact isn’t a problem fair enough
yellowjack said:
It's funny really.
Team Sky haven't been demonstrated to have broken any rules. But they have apparently "stepped over an ethical line".
How is this any different to a football player rolling around on the floor faking injury in order to influence the referee to give a decision or discipline an opponent?
Lots of sports are awash with doping. Lots of teams are happy to dope within the rules when something new and not specifically excluded surfaces as 'performance enhancing'. Then WADA change the rules, amend the list, and off they go to look for the next new chemical advantage to be gained. Then it gets outlawed and repeat,ad infinitum.
I cycle, and I've played sport. Lots of sport. I've never taken drugs to aid performance, but by the same token I've never tried to pull the wool over a referee's (or umpire's) eyes. Judo, Boxing, Football, Rugby Union, Hockey, Softball, and now MTB Racing. Break the rules, make a mistake? Raise a hand, and apologise to your team mates, your opponent(s), and the match officials for sullying the game. Don't lie and cheat to ensure you escape censure, or to gain advantage. But then I wasn't playing at anywhere near the highest levels, and so the difference between winning and losing was usually limited to the tone of the post-match 'inquest' into what went right or wrong.
As a cyclist and follower of the big road races, it massively disappoints me to see that Team Sky's claims of 'riding clean' were hollow. But it doesn't surprise me. And lots of other Continental Grand Tour teams have been affected by similar issues during the same period, and worse too, by out-and-out illegal doping with completely banned substances.
Going back years, steroids and stimulants have been used in cycling. Should we be tearing down the Tommy Simpson Memorial on Mt Ventoux? Or at least not restore or repair it if the weather does this...
...to it again. After all, he was a World Champion in an era lacking any official doping controls, and a habitual (ab)user of amphetamines. But then again, if we start stripping the pre control era drugs cheats of their titles, perhaps the statues of Cecil Rhodes and his peers ought to come down too? Maybe the "snowflakes" are right after all?
Team SKY did not cheat. The committee of MPs (and doping control agencies) have said as much. They just pushed as far as was legal within the existing framework of rules. Just as many individuals and teams have done in many and varied sports for as long as records have existed. The rules keep evolving, changing to meet the challenge of new equipment and pharmaceuticals being developed to exploit current rules and laws. It will ever be so while we have 'professional sportsmen and sportswomen'. The better they are, the more they earn, so they'll turn every trick they can to keep ahead of the competition. That's what Team SKY are "guilty" of. I don't like it, but it's not grounds for stripping people of their titles. If it leaves a sour taste, then what needs to happen is that the control regime for TUEs needs to be tightened up, and then the tighter rules applied with zero tolerance going forward. Or maybe we need to examine more closely whether Sir Roger Bannister had any nefarious assistance when he broke 4 minutes for a mile? Act quickly I say! If we're going to blacken the name of a British Athletics hero, we need to do it before he goes into the ground, not afterwards!
TL;DR? Team SKY didn't cheat. The MPs said as much. But cheating has been going on forever, in almost every sport. It happens, so either we need to re-examine every single athlete, in every single race ever, or accept it and concentrate on applying the rules going forward...
It’s morally wrong that is the issue. Team Sky haven't been demonstrated to have broken any rules. But they have apparently "stepped over an ethical line".
How is this any different to a football player rolling around on the floor faking injury in order to influence the referee to give a decision or discipline an opponent?
Lots of sports are awash with doping. Lots of teams are happy to dope within the rules when something new and not specifically excluded surfaces as 'performance enhancing'. Then WADA change the rules, amend the list, and off they go to look for the next new chemical advantage to be gained. Then it gets outlawed and repeat,ad infinitum.
I cycle, and I've played sport. Lots of sport. I've never taken drugs to aid performance, but by the same token I've never tried to pull the wool over a referee's (or umpire's) eyes. Judo, Boxing, Football, Rugby Union, Hockey, Softball, and now MTB Racing. Break the rules, make a mistake? Raise a hand, and apologise to your team mates, your opponent(s), and the match officials for sullying the game. Don't lie and cheat to ensure you escape censure, or to gain advantage. But then I wasn't playing at anywhere near the highest levels, and so the difference between winning and losing was usually limited to the tone of the post-match 'inquest' into what went right or wrong.
As a cyclist and follower of the big road races, it massively disappoints me to see that Team Sky's claims of 'riding clean' were hollow. But it doesn't surprise me. And lots of other Continental Grand Tour teams have been affected by similar issues during the same period, and worse too, by out-and-out illegal doping with completely banned substances.
Going back years, steroids and stimulants have been used in cycling. Should we be tearing down the Tommy Simpson Memorial on Mt Ventoux? Or at least not restore or repair it if the weather does this...
...to it again. After all, he was a World Champion in an era lacking any official doping controls, and a habitual (ab)user of amphetamines. But then again, if we start stripping the pre control era drugs cheats of their titles, perhaps the statues of Cecil Rhodes and his peers ought to come down too? Maybe the "snowflakes" are right after all?Team SKY did not cheat. The committee of MPs (and doping control agencies) have said as much. They just pushed as far as was legal within the existing framework of rules. Just as many individuals and teams have done in many and varied sports for as long as records have existed. The rules keep evolving, changing to meet the challenge of new equipment and pharmaceuticals being developed to exploit current rules and laws. It will ever be so while we have 'professional sportsmen and sportswomen'. The better they are, the more they earn, so they'll turn every trick they can to keep ahead of the competition. That's what Team SKY are "guilty" of. I don't like it, but it's not grounds for stripping people of their titles. If it leaves a sour taste, then what needs to happen is that the control regime for TUEs needs to be tightened up, and then the tighter rules applied with zero tolerance going forward. Or maybe we need to examine more closely whether Sir Roger Bannister had any nefarious assistance when he broke 4 minutes for a mile? Act quickly I say! If we're going to blacken the name of a British Athletics hero, we need to do it before he goes into the ground, not afterwards!
TL;DR? Team SKY didn't cheat. The MPs said as much. But cheating has been going on forever, in almost every sport. It happens, so either we need to re-examine every single athlete, in every single race ever, or accept it and concentrate on applying the rules going forward...
Edited by yellowjack on Monday 5th March 09:12
Akin to tax avoidance perfectly legal but people’s opinion has totally change.
Dr Imran T said:
Whatever the end result maybe for both Sky and Wiggins - I think in many peoples minds the damage is done.
Let's see how long Brailsford remains in his job and I think it won't be too long before Sky leave the sport.
It's a PR disaster which ever way you look at it!
Exactly. Let's see how long Brailsford remains in his job and I think it won't be too long before Sky leave the sport.
It's a PR disaster which ever way you look at it!
Same for Froome too.
The Surveyor said:
Welshbeef said:
........
Huge risk to Wiggins now he needs to respond properly
What does Wiggins need to add that hasn't already been confirmed by the team he was riding for at the time?Huge risk to Wiggins now he needs to respond properly
Sky made a statement, and now this committee have found that there was no rule breaking. What they have done is attack Sky based upon some made-up perception of what is 'ethically correct'!
Who gets to set the ethical compass and decide what is ethically acceptable and what isn't?
The Sky team used the rules to their advantage, they exploited the loopholes in the rules which were available to every team to put riders on the podium, to put riders in a yellow jersey, and to win gold medals. On their ethical compass they were winning within the rules and that has been confirmed by the investigation.
As such bad press is somewhat going to reduce the sponsorship as why would they want to be associated to something that can harm their own brand?
I think a way out of it would be for him to say you know what he’s i did take those as it’s in the rules and I pushed those rules to the maximum. No different to the bike development or training up mountains all the time v flat riding training.
Granfondo said:
Nope.
TUE is to be used to treat a medical condition and the report has accused Sky and Wiggins of using it to enhance his W/KG not to treat his "athsma"!
In that case it is akin to Tax Avoidance. TUE is to be used to treat a medical condition and the report has accused Sky and Wiggins of using it to enhance his W/KG not to treat his "athsma"!
Why are some posters on here really going “oh it doesn’t matter what’s all the fuss about?” This is our biggest ever gold champion winner multiple Tour de France sinner and knighted for his achievements? Heck even SPOTy too!!
It’s huge news - and something which could destroy or severely tarnish his career.
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