2017 Six Nations
Discussion
Unless I'm blind I can't see another thread yet.....
2017 could be one of the most closely contested for a while.
England
I watched the Eng V Aus game and the way they got themselves back in the game was impressive. Some key players are out injured and some looking doubtful-Mako Vunipola and Marler making loosehead stocks look a bit bare, Hughes looks a able enough stand in for Billy Vunipola who has probably been England's stand out player under Jones. Will hopefully get a a chance to see some new blood get a chance. England will be hard to beat. First game at home against France.
Two away games at Wales and the final game in Ireland will be tough.
Ireland
Only the two home games for Ireland and first up a tricky visit to Edinburgh.
I hope it comes down to a decider in Ireland. Ireland are in good form and the domestic teams are also going well. Ireland don't have as much strength in depth if key players get injured.
Scotland
Time for Scotland to to show something tangible for their promise? I think they'll give Ireland and England a game but fall short. I'd expect them to beat a Howley Wales at home, plus Italy which means to come third they'll probably need to beat France in France if results go the way I'm predicting.
Wales
If Howley were to play some of the form players in the Pro12 it could be interesting but he won't. Wales have ground out some victories of late while playing poorly. I'm sure every Wales supporter would be happy to see them play poorly in 5 games and grind out results but can't see it. To fulfill my prediction and see Wales come 4th it would mean they would have to go Paris and win in the final game, which if France have nothing to play for in particular could do.
France
It used to be the old cliche 'which France will turn up' but I've said for sometime that internationally they just aren't very good. All the money and lots of retired internationals overseas players topping up their pensions has be eroding the French national side for a while now IMHO. They probably go on and beat England at Twickeham in round 1 now...... Still have plenty of talent but I just find the French far less than the sum of their parts.
Italy Capable of an upset still but I think the gap between Italy and the others is widening and will continue to do so.
Head says if Ireland don't suffer key injuries with home advantage in that last game they might take it.
Heart says England will win a GS on the way to beating the AB's unbeaten record.
2017 could be one of the most closely contested for a while.
England
I watched the Eng V Aus game and the way they got themselves back in the game was impressive. Some key players are out injured and some looking doubtful-Mako Vunipola and Marler making loosehead stocks look a bit bare, Hughes looks a able enough stand in for Billy Vunipola who has probably been England's stand out player under Jones. Will hopefully get a a chance to see some new blood get a chance. England will be hard to beat. First game at home against France.
Two away games at Wales and the final game in Ireland will be tough.
Ireland
Only the two home games for Ireland and first up a tricky visit to Edinburgh.
I hope it comes down to a decider in Ireland. Ireland are in good form and the domestic teams are also going well. Ireland don't have as much strength in depth if key players get injured.
Scotland
Time for Scotland to to show something tangible for their promise? I think they'll give Ireland and England a game but fall short. I'd expect them to beat a Howley Wales at home, plus Italy which means to come third they'll probably need to beat France in France if results go the way I'm predicting.
Wales
If Howley were to play some of the form players in the Pro12 it could be interesting but he won't. Wales have ground out some victories of late while playing poorly. I'm sure every Wales supporter would be happy to see them play poorly in 5 games and grind out results but can't see it. To fulfill my prediction and see Wales come 4th it would mean they would have to go Paris and win in the final game, which if France have nothing to play for in particular could do.
France
It used to be the old cliche 'which France will turn up' but I've said for sometime that internationally they just aren't very good. All the money and lots of retired internationals overseas players topping up their pensions has be eroding the French national side for a while now IMHO. They probably go on and beat England at Twickeham in round 1 now...... Still have plenty of talent but I just find the French far less than the sum of their parts.
Italy Capable of an upset still but I think the gap between Italy and the others is widening and will continue to do so.
Head says if Ireland don't suffer key injuries with home advantage in that last game they might take it.
Heart says England will win a GS on the way to beating the AB's unbeaten record.
Yeah I can Itoje going to blind side with Launch, Kruis and Lawes competing to start. One thing I will say is that quite a lot of players who were putting in a lot of average performances under Lancaster have stepped up their game under Jones, namely Lawes and Wood who were very good in the autumn internationals.
magooagain said:
I think Scotland could trip at least two or three teams up this time round.
Could have said the same thing for the last 10 competitions. On their day they certainly have the ability to upset anyone, I just think they tend to lack that big game mentality and towards the end of the competition if injuries to key players occur the cupboard looks pretty bare. Great opening weekend with some entertaining games, Scotland V Ireland being the pick of the bunch for me. I really thought when Ireland got ahead Scotland had blew it but credit to them. I expect Ireland to bounce back but reaffirms how difficult it will be for anyone to take a slam this year.
The England game was hard to watch but as fans, pundits etc have said that to find a way to win and win ugly is the sign of a good team. For me a new FB needs to be phased in soon Mike Brown is on a downward trajectory and passed his peak. It could be form but the guy simply doesn't look to pass...ever. saying that the passing along with a lot of other stuff was substandard across the board. I think Daly would be worth looking at FB long term.
Need another 9, said it before but meld Youngs and Care into one person and they'd be a hell of a scrum half. Ben Youngs club form seem to have carried on into the national side. Care had a lot more energy and quicker passing when he came on. I'd start him for the Wales game. Launchbury had a very average game by his standards and while it seemed in the Autumn that Eddie Jones can polish a turd Tom Wood was poor for me, on the wrong side of a couple of iffy decisions, looks a bit too light weight to me and if he can prove his fitness Haskell should come in to offer some more carrying around the park.
Mostly I think Jones was a bit naive, few too many back from injury and short of game time and fitness. There were however quite a lot of changes. Wales will be a different proposition the French were huge, and I think in their back row Wales are short of a carrier to get them over the gain line
The England game was hard to watch but as fans, pundits etc have said that to find a way to win and win ugly is the sign of a good team. For me a new FB needs to be phased in soon Mike Brown is on a downward trajectory and passed his peak. It could be form but the guy simply doesn't look to pass...ever. saying that the passing along with a lot of other stuff was substandard across the board. I think Daly would be worth looking at FB long term.
Need another 9, said it before but meld Youngs and Care into one person and they'd be a hell of a scrum half. Ben Youngs club form seem to have carried on into the national side. Care had a lot more energy and quicker passing when he came on. I'd start him for the Wales game. Launchbury had a very average game by his standards and while it seemed in the Autumn that Eddie Jones can polish a turd Tom Wood was poor for me, on the wrong side of a couple of iffy decisions, looks a bit too light weight to me and if he can prove his fitness Haskell should come in to offer some more carrying around the park.
Mostly I think Jones was a bit naive, few too many back from injury and short of game time and fitness. There were however quite a lot of changes. Wales will be a different proposition the French were huge, and I think in their back row Wales are short of a carrier to get them over the gain line
Meh, there's was always a high probability of that result given the press hyping up it was a 5 pointer just a case of how many blah blah blah.
Having watched it and thought about it, everyone is singing Italy's praises but they still got beat and conceded a bonus point by bending the laws.
I'm still pretty nervous about England's prospects, can they continue to just do enough or can they actually pull off an 80 minute performance where everything clicks?
Farrell's 50th cap was probably his worst, the majority of the injury stand ins aren't near the quality of the the incumbents and seem to have imbalanced the side IMO. I was hoping Nathan Hughes would be a real alternative to Billy Vunipola but he's proving to be a bit of a penalty magnet, carries too high in contact while not making many yards.
Elliot Daly looks the real deal, he's the form 13 so I'd play him there or if you're going to play him out of position take a look at him at FB. Mike Brown's long term replacement needs to be found, he won't be good enough come the WC in 2019.
Itoje is doing a good job at 6 but there's plenty of quality young 6's I'd have like to have seen get a game. Picking a Lions second row combo is going to be hard-Launchburry is probably the form lock of the 6N.
I can't work out why Care was taken off when he was. History is against Scotland next up but England will have to improve to beat them.
Having watched it and thought about it, everyone is singing Italy's praises but they still got beat and conceded a bonus point by bending the laws.
I'm still pretty nervous about England's prospects, can they continue to just do enough or can they actually pull off an 80 minute performance where everything clicks?
Farrell's 50th cap was probably his worst, the majority of the injury stand ins aren't near the quality of the the incumbents and seem to have imbalanced the side IMO. I was hoping Nathan Hughes would be a real alternative to Billy Vunipola but he's proving to be a bit of a penalty magnet, carries too high in contact while not making many yards.
Elliot Daly looks the real deal, he's the form 13 so I'd play him there or if you're going to play him out of position take a look at him at FB. Mike Brown's long term replacement needs to be found, he won't be good enough come the WC in 2019.
Itoje is doing a good job at 6 but there's plenty of quality young 6's I'd have like to have seen get a game. Picking a Lions second row combo is going to be hard-Launchburry is probably the form lock of the 6N.
I can't work out why Care was taken off when he was. History is against Scotland next up but England will have to improve to beat them.
epom said:
Bending the laws? Not to be confused with not playing in the traditional sense.
I'm pretty certain World Rugby will issue a law clarification this week on the back of this. Law 15 talks about "loitering" it is illegal to be willfully in front of the ball. If a player behind you kicks ahead you must move towards your own goal line. The Scenario after the tackle is no different. There is no offside line but you cannot willfully move in front of the ball.Some will call it tactically astute, others cynical. No contest at the breakdown is Rugby League. I'd like to see relegation introduced. I also thought the Italian try when their player was down with the physios when they ran round the back would have been looked at.
It was a bit embarrassing that professional players didn't know the law(s) nor did Hartley have the nouns to take a knee and sort things out. England are lacking leaders.
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