The Rt. Hon. 'Mathew' of London

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So, following the 'worst road users in London' thread, I had to share this with you 'peddlers'.

So I was on my way home, along the embankment, as usual last night on my motorbike.

Stopped at a set of red lights (not in the cycle box or lane btw ) and a cyclist pulls up and into the box.

Then, alas quite typically, another cyclist sails between us through the red light.

Cue Mathew (as I later found him to be called) shouting 'RED' at said cyclist. The other cyclist slows a bit, then continues on his way.

As I pull away I give Mathew a big thumbs up and a 'Nice one mate' as he is one of the 3 cyclists in London that actually know what the Highway Code is and follows it accordingly.

Now, Mathew is no slouch on a bike and, by the time we get to the next set of lights he's overtaken the red light jumper and, in fact, is only a few second behind me (I'm on a motorbike by the way).

So then, red light jumper pulls up alongside Mathew and says something along the lines of 'who the f*** are you to tell me what to do, I was..." at which point, Mathew interrupts him.

"Hi - I'm Mathew" he says offering his hand to be shaken, with one of those smiley faces that you can't help but warm to...

"I don't care who you are, I don't want to know you" says Mr. red light jumper and continues his verbal assault on the unflappable Mathew, who just smiles and takes it. This appeared to be the only reason mr. red light jumper actually waited for the lights.

Anyway, lights change, I ride away (not before calling red light jumper a massive bell*** for not realising that it's him that's in the wrong) as do Mathew and red light jumper f***wit.

So, we get to the next set of lights which are, again, red.

I arrive.

Mathew arrives.

Mr red light jumper (now almost apoplectic with rage for being 'called out') arrives and promptly sails through the lights - again.

'RED' I hear again from my left.

I was almost in tears laughing at this stage.

So 'Mathew' of London - I salute you and wish you well in your ongoing crusade against your fellow cyclists who, sadly, think that the rules of the road don't apply to them.

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Hurley said:

You must be the only motorcyclist in London who stops behind the white line....sweeping generalisations are great.

Oddly enough, I'm not the only one but there are plenty of others who ignore them too.

Not sure what your point is (well, I do, but I'll feign ignorance).

Was I generalising? No.

Just recounting anecdotally someone getting his come-uppance who thoroughly deserved it.

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walm said:

I like motorcyclists in the ASLs.
It leaves less room for the cars and unlike the cars the motorcyclists tend to do a good job of keeping out of the way.

So Stig if you ever pull up next to me in the ASL we can shout at RLJers together.

Will do

I have no beef with cyclists - as long as they obey the rules of the road, same goes for any other road user.

Room for all of us - just play nice

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bigandclever said:

I wonder.... it wasn't Matt Seaton was it?

Could be? Who is he?

(quick search) err. isn't he New York based?

Could have been visiting. I'm just down the road from the Grauniad's old offices.

Edited by Stig on Wednesday 26th October 11:36

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will_ said:

the fact remains that motorbikes are not allowed to sit in the ASLs and are technically running red lights by doing so

How so? Surely you only cross the light when you pass the line at the signals?

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walm said:

Stig - you see that large green box with a BIcycle painted on it??

Not for MOTORcycles!

The ASL - Advanced Stop Line is for cyclists only.
It is always preceeded by the regular stop line - for everyone else.

Never in the whole of human history has this been enforced by trafpol though.

Err.. you may want to read some of my previous replies. Whilst it may be unbelievable to accept, I do, in fact, stay out of ASLs.

I was just interested to hear a technical explanation of how it constitutes running a red light (it's been a while since I passed my test).

So wind your neck in please.

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walm said:

Sorry. Mis-read your OP.

I thought you were in the box with Matt and the now-identified WjPrince.

http://www.lfgss.com/post2481668-1544.html

No probs Not sure if WjPrince is the same bloke as Surray Quays to Greenwich would be the wrong direction? This was embankment on the stretch from Blackfriars to Westminster - but I guess it may be the same 'RED' Matthew

From that post:

"You are not in charge of the road and it's users.
You are not the police.
F*** off."

Great attitude!

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walm said:

Never in the whole of human history has this been enforced by trafpol though.

This made for interesting reading on the matter:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/29/...

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My interest, further piqued, found this study by TFL re the (ab)use of ASLs by road users:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Behaviour-a...

Of interest re. my earlier point about the technicalities of it constituting 'running a red light' is section 5.3 - Red Light Violation:



Please note, I'm not trolling here, just highlighting the confusion that exists regarding the use of ASLs (same with my Grauniad link) - I apologise for highlighting the main offenders (cough), but it helps explain why generalisations are made against cyclists in this regard.

I'm staying out of them either way - heaven help me should I accidently bump into a PH peddler

Think I'll stick a PH smiley on my topbox just so you can keep tabs on me

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will_ said:

The most worrying element of that article - which I've heard repeated elsewhere - is "some officers see the penalty for the infringement – six points on the licence the same as you'd get for sailing all the way through the red light – as somewhat disproportionate."

Since when was it the job of the police to decide whether the penalty for an offence is "disproportionate" and therefore decide not to enforce that particular law?

I accept that the issues surrounding ASLs are not completely understood either by the police or the general public, but it is a sad indicator of the polices' attitude to cyclists that whilst they (and by that I mean the City of London police) are often seen specifically targeting red-light jumping cyclists (and so they should), they are yet to hand out a ticket to anyone infringing upon an ASL....

The six point thing in itself seems to me confused, as elsewhere I've seen 3 points and 60 quid quoted. I think the confusion is down to the differentiation between encroaching on an ASL and actually running the light (see below TFL findings and differentiation between the two offences), being 3 and 6 points accordingly.

If it makes you feel better, I saw a scooter rider (the equivalent of a fixie rider to a motorcyclist ) being done for entering an ASL by a motorbike cop only last week in Clerkenwell Road - so it does happen!

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will_ said:

Indeed - the penalty is surely 3 points and £60 fine. But stil, as I said, I've heard this excuse used elsewhere by the police, as the penalty for cyclists is "only" a £30 fine (although, arguably, that reflects the differences in the risk/seriousness of the offence. Que frothing at the mouth by some posters).

I hope when you say "done" you mean given a ticket, and not a warning. I've seen the police ignore blatent ASL infringements right in front of them whilst watching for RLJing cyclists....!

Nope, definitely given a ticket. Whilst he was writing it out another biker (motor) rode into the box (you'll be pleased to say that I shook my head in disbelief - if I'd have known about 'RED' I'd have used it ) - bike cope stopped the ticket, walked to biker, gave him an earful and made him reverse out.

Then carried on with scooter ticket

Re seriousness of offence, sorry, cyclist/driver or rider - running a red light is equally dangerous IMHO. Sadly, I believe the fact that cyclists have no licence to lose (or effect on insurance etc.) to worry about, nor any ready means of identification, make it largely part of the problem.

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walm said:

I don't RLJ but I strongly disagree.
For anyone, being hit by a car would be far worse than being hit by a bicycle.

Also - great find on the TFL report.
Finally we have evidence that not 100% of cyclists RLJ. It is just 17% of us!

Not just a question of hitting someone with the bike, it's the accident that it may cause as a result. Bike runs red, car (or artic as per will's exmaple) emergency brakes to avoid, loses control, wipes out peds etc.

Again, just as dangerous, though not necessarily for the same reasons IMHO.

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will_ said:

But if you use that analogy, almost anything you do behind the wheel (or handlebars) should be considered on the "worst case scenario" risk and punished accordingly? I.e. dangerous driving and prison?

Maybe it should - cuts both ways though

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will_ said:

Well, at the moment it doesn't. And righfully so, in my view, reflecting real risk rather than doomsday!

Maybe I should get a PH smiley on my helmet [fnar]

We'll agree to disagree then

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Needless to say, given this thread, I've been even more attentive as to the use of the ASL in the last couple of days.

Bemusement this morning when coming down Theobald's road. Stopped before ASL at a busy junction and (for a change) so did other motorists, leaving the cycle box completely clear.

Several cycles turn up and ride into and straight through the empty cycle box and wait on the far side of the box exit line on the ped crossing.

Had I not been wearing a helmet, I would have facepalmed

I do admit to having a chuckle about the irony of their actions in the context of this thread though

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will_ said:

Well what can you do

Even more staggeringly, this morning at the second of the two junctions where motorbikes religiously overtake me and then sweep left immediately thereafter, a motorbike (nay, a BMW motorbike) not only didn't do that but also, through the medium of sign language, confirmed that he, like I, was in fact going straight on. He then moved over to let me overtake a slowing and turning van.

If there were such a thing as an anti-face-palm, I would have done it.

There's hope for us yet!