Starting to think there is no point in trying to educate?
Discussion
Two very sorry episodes but the answer is in a John Niven book!
Queuing at the downhill lights in Regents park waiting to turn right at the Mosque and out if the park (if you know it) and a cyclist decided that he didn't want to Lose his momentum at the red light!
So (I've ridden the circuit many times) at approx. 23/24mph, he screams 'hey! Hey! Hey!' Coming to the very red light as a lady had almost finished crossing the road and was soon to be crossing his path. She was visibly startled and rattled as he flew past her and right through the red light with no hint of slowing.... Utter pr4t so I hit the horn (wrong I know) whereby I got the bird! All other cyclists did stop.
Roll on a couple of days and I'm out with my neighbour on our bikes for a 35 mile pootle averaging around 14.5 mph. Needless to say, I'm generally on a one man crusade to change the perception of drivers and always acknowledge people waiting or giving way etc with often exaggerated waves and thumbs up. I would say the gestures are generally acknowledged with a wave around 25-30% of the time, if not more.
On the above pootle, we were two abreast chatting but obviously pulling in to single file as and when any car came close or there was any issue of an easy overtake. I promise we are really well behaved (normally)!
So, slight loud engine noise from way behind and as I'm drifting into single file, we get the full on horn... Not a little 'beep beep' but a 'get out of my way horn'. I know this even more from what the pr1ck does next.
He roars his engine and proceeds with a stupidly close pass (oncoming traffic was tight to centre line but nothing was going to stop this moron.) so, unfortunately, the normally mild mannered and polite companion proceeded to give the Churchill solute!
Red rag, meet Bull! Hard braking and he waits for us without getting out - thank god.
So I sidle up alongside and start by apologising for the gesture but explained why he got it. He wasn't having any of it. I stayed 100% calm and tried apologising again but explained why cyclist generally don't like close passes! especially on country roads with ropey verges etc.
Apparently he didn't want to tell me what he did for a living when I informed him he was a little mistaken on the law and Highway Code as he would have no choice but to escalate things. In summary, he came out with every possible cliche and a few new ones but I especially liked these two:
"It is illegal to ride two abreast unless overtaking" and
"Who do I think I am holding up a car which is also illegal"
He particularly didn't like it when I replied that I was confident that "I probably pay more 'road tax' than him" when he came out with all our favourite little rant!
His final comments revolved around me needing a slap if I didn't stop being cheeky by not listening and taking his advice on board. I found this particularly galling as had been very (surprisingly for me
) polite and let him hang himself so to speak.
It was at this point I suggested he follow through with his threat - and am ashamed for doing so - by suggesting he was also a totally unreasonable pr1ck! His reaction - he drives off giving the coffee beans shake!
Moral of this dull post - can't we all just 'be nice' to each other? There are to55ers on roads and bikes but fighting or trying to educate each other simply doesn't seem to work
Queuing at the downhill lights in Regents park waiting to turn right at the Mosque and out if the park (if you know it) and a cyclist decided that he didn't want to Lose his momentum at the red light!
So (I've ridden the circuit many times) at approx. 23/24mph, he screams 'hey! Hey! Hey!' Coming to the very red light as a lady had almost finished crossing the road and was soon to be crossing his path. She was visibly startled and rattled as he flew past her and right through the red light with no hint of slowing.... Utter pr4t so I hit the horn (wrong I know) whereby I got the bird! All other cyclists did stop.
Roll on a couple of days and I'm out with my neighbour on our bikes for a 35 mile pootle averaging around 14.5 mph. Needless to say, I'm generally on a one man crusade to change the perception of drivers and always acknowledge people waiting or giving way etc with often exaggerated waves and thumbs up. I would say the gestures are generally acknowledged with a wave around 25-30% of the time, if not more.
On the above pootle, we were two abreast chatting but obviously pulling in to single file as and when any car came close or there was any issue of an easy overtake. I promise we are really well behaved (normally)!
So, slight loud engine noise from way behind and as I'm drifting into single file, we get the full on horn... Not a little 'beep beep' but a 'get out of my way horn'. I know this even more from what the pr1ck does next.
He roars his engine and proceeds with a stupidly close pass (oncoming traffic was tight to centre line but nothing was going to stop this moron.) so, unfortunately, the normally mild mannered and polite companion proceeded to give the Churchill solute!
Red rag, meet Bull! Hard braking and he waits for us without getting out - thank god.
So I sidle up alongside and start by apologising for the gesture but explained why he got it. He wasn't having any of it. I stayed 100% calm and tried apologising again but explained why cyclist generally don't like close passes! especially on country roads with ropey verges etc.
Apparently he didn't want to tell me what he did for a living when I informed him he was a little mistaken on the law and Highway Code as he would have no choice but to escalate things. In summary, he came out with every possible cliche and a few new ones but I especially liked these two:
"It is illegal to ride two abreast unless overtaking" and
"Who do I think I am holding up a car which is also illegal"
He particularly didn't like it when I replied that I was confident that "I probably pay more 'road tax' than him" when he came out with all our favourite little rant!
His final comments revolved around me needing a slap if I didn't stop being cheeky by not listening and taking his advice on board. I found this particularly galling as had been very (surprisingly for me
) polite and let him hang himself so to speak.It was at this point I suggested he follow through with his threat - and am ashamed for doing so - by suggesting he was also a totally unreasonable pr1ck! His reaction - he drives off giving the coffee beans shake!
Moral of this dull post - can't we all just 'be nice' to each other? There are to55ers on roads and bikes but fighting or trying to educate each other simply doesn't seem to work
grumbledoak said:
It isn't your job to educate, and efforts in that direction won't be appreciated. And, in case your mate didn't know, calling someone a w
ker (I assume this is what you mean by a "Churchill salute") is starting a fight.
I just do what I can to make myself safer - a lid and, more importantly IMO, a dayglo top.
One can try to 'educate' by example and then when your female mild mannered companion sticks two fingers at someone, I find the best approach is to start with an apology ker (I assume this is what you mean by a "Churchill salute") is starting a fight.I just do what I can to make myself safer - a lid and, more importantly IMO, a dayglo top.
this simple action so often disarms someone (normally the aggressor funnily enough) that it is possible to get a word in!Education can take many forms.... And the way I normally attempt it - which I have tried to explain - is IMHO worth attempting!
We may disagree on this point but I am happy to keep trying to set a good example.
And does anybody know the Niven book I mean?
yellowjack said:
I'm absolutely certain that there's no point in trying to educate the mobs of morons roaming the roads in cars, vans and lorries........
........but other than trying to set a good example I don't see how I can have a hand in educating these retards.
This is kind of my overall point ........but other than trying to set a good example I don't see how I can have a hand in educating these retards.
I think we should do something - albeit by trying to rise above the norm and set a good example! At no point do I want that phrase above on my tombstone. Believe me, I really do try to avoid the classic issues but there are times, both in London/SE and down in Glos when that option is removed from your arsenal.....
(I would add bikes to the first bit quoted also unfortunately)
I am the last to go out of my way to confront in an attempt to educate. Think the exact opposite to that warrior cyclist that dresses in black handing out yellow and red cards
(Road Droid?)Ps - I do struggle with classic bullies though, whether on foot, cycle, motorbike, car, office whatever
Edited by Slaav on Tuesday 29th July 09:04
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