New Canyon Endurace - love it but....
Discussion
Feels a little heavier than I expected?
I posted on bikeradar so thought I would share here:
I had my Endurace CF 8.0 105 Disc delivered last week and have now ridden it pretty much every day since Wednesday last week. I have done a mixture of stuff, commuting, faster rides, climbs and flats. I love the bike, and this was purchased to replace my "all year round / do it all" bike, an aluminium Bianchi Impulso 105. I decided to prioritise comfort and value over lightness and aerodynamics. I still have my Carbon Aero summer bike, which I can't see being bettered unless I spend 5k plus nor am I looking to change that either.
So, the bike is great, but it feels different and I am interested in others experience of changing bikes or of this model. I have done 18000 miles on the Impulso over 4 years and so it has become a very dialled in default bike for me. I find it boring, now, but it has always worked. As a matter of fact it is currently in the classifieds. But, this Canyon, which is advertised as 8.5kg, def feels heavier, both to pick up and to ride. I would go as far as to say that it feels like a bit of a porker. That will actually serve me well, because it IS supposed to be a training bike that will get all sorts thrown at it. But immediately I notice two things, 1) Climbing on it is not the carbon experience of my summer bike which is a De Rosa Merak, and 2) maintaining speed above 20mph takes work, more so I think than the Bianchi.
I always billed the Bianchi as a tank, I just assumed it was a heavy ally bike, but, I am actually moving marginally slower on the Carbon Canyon both in terms of average speed and segment times. The Canyon def feels like it needs more work to keep going. I am really feeling it in my legs and even on short climbs I seem to lack the "margin" of spare power, or the reserve ability I am used to, to throw it up. Maybe it is just me getting used to it, or getting the position right, but it's an odd one.
The Canyon I sized as small, as my Bianchi is a 55cm top tube and I am only 5 foot 9 ish, so it has always probably been a bit too big. I have had a fit and have numbers, and I have checked them agains the Canyon, they more or less stack up, but even the though the frame is smaller the reach is further and it is noticeable. I can still make adjustments, but it has been the main thing I notice in terms of position.
How long does it take to get used to a bike, when going from a bike you have ridden daily over the last 4 years to a new model that you also throw yourself right into and ride plenty? Anyone else have a Endurace and how do you find it?
I posted on bikeradar so thought I would share here:
I had my Endurace CF 8.0 105 Disc delivered last week and have now ridden it pretty much every day since Wednesday last week. I have done a mixture of stuff, commuting, faster rides, climbs and flats. I love the bike, and this was purchased to replace my "all year round / do it all" bike, an aluminium Bianchi Impulso 105. I decided to prioritise comfort and value over lightness and aerodynamics. I still have my Carbon Aero summer bike, which I can't see being bettered unless I spend 5k plus nor am I looking to change that either.
So, the bike is great, but it feels different and I am interested in others experience of changing bikes or of this model. I have done 18000 miles on the Impulso over 4 years and so it has become a very dialled in default bike for me. I find it boring, now, but it has always worked. As a matter of fact it is currently in the classifieds. But, this Canyon, which is advertised as 8.5kg, def feels heavier, both to pick up and to ride. I would go as far as to say that it feels like a bit of a porker. That will actually serve me well, because it IS supposed to be a training bike that will get all sorts thrown at it. But immediately I notice two things, 1) Climbing on it is not the carbon experience of my summer bike which is a De Rosa Merak, and 2) maintaining speed above 20mph takes work, more so I think than the Bianchi.
I always billed the Bianchi as a tank, I just assumed it was a heavy ally bike, but, I am actually moving marginally slower on the Carbon Canyon both in terms of average speed and segment times. The Canyon def feels like it needs more work to keep going. I am really feeling it in my legs and even on short climbs I seem to lack the "margin" of spare power, or the reserve ability I am used to, to throw it up. Maybe it is just me getting used to it, or getting the position right, but it's an odd one.
The Canyon I sized as small, as my Bianchi is a 55cm top tube and I am only 5 foot 9 ish, so it has always probably been a bit too big. I have had a fit and have numbers, and I have checked them agains the Canyon, they more or less stack up, but even the though the frame is smaller the reach is further and it is noticeable. I can still make adjustments, but it has been the main thing I notice in terms of position.
How long does it take to get used to a bike, when going from a bike you have ridden daily over the last 4 years to a new model that you also throw yourself right into and ride plenty? Anyone else have a Endurace and how do you find it?
This post is not a complaint, but an observation, and the reason I bring it up is because I am surprised by it that's all.
The rotors were one of the first things I checked, and although I had some "post assembly pad catching" from the front wheel, this disappeared soon afterwards, as far as I can tell it is fine now. I have not weighed the bike with scales, however, I have been lugging it up and down loads of platform steps as well as moving it about at home to clean it e.t.c. and I definitely notice the weight more. It also feels quite back heavy around the cassette end.
What I meant by the climbing aspect, was that it feels like I am pushing noticeabbly harder to go uphill - to give just one example I rode up Red Road in Lightwater yesterday, and the last part of the climb I was travelling at around 14mph which is normally do able with a bit in reserve, so say I am at about 85%. Yesterday I felt firmly at 100% with no reserve, legs burning, and I was 20 seconds slower than my best time over the 0.5 mile segment. So I'm not just plucking nonsense out the air, I am actually using some logic here although I grant it's not scientific. In terms of overall stats though it seems on a par with the Bianchi, but ever so slightly slower. Yesterday was the first time I averaged over 19mph, before I got the bike I was happily putting in some 19.5 averages on the Bianchi.
I have literally just gone out and double checked the measurements, and I have made adjustments. I have raised the seat again and pulled the saddle forward, which should match the reach with the Bianchi, as well as the saddle height as the saddle was low and the reach was further out on the Canyon. I have to confess I do have a slightly sore lower back today, although I don't know whether that's unrelated as I have ongoing back issues anyway.
Pictures as requested, and I am heading out this afternoon so will report back.
The rotors were one of the first things I checked, and although I had some "post assembly pad catching" from the front wheel, this disappeared soon afterwards, as far as I can tell it is fine now. I have not weighed the bike with scales, however, I have been lugging it up and down loads of platform steps as well as moving it about at home to clean it e.t.c. and I definitely notice the weight more. It also feels quite back heavy around the cassette end.
What I meant by the climbing aspect, was that it feels like I am pushing noticeabbly harder to go uphill - to give just one example I rode up Red Road in Lightwater yesterday, and the last part of the climb I was travelling at around 14mph which is normally do able with a bit in reserve, so say I am at about 85%. Yesterday I felt firmly at 100% with no reserve, legs burning, and I was 20 seconds slower than my best time over the 0.5 mile segment. So I'm not just plucking nonsense out the air, I am actually using some logic here although I grant it's not scientific. In terms of overall stats though it seems on a par with the Bianchi, but ever so slightly slower. Yesterday was the first time I averaged over 19mph, before I got the bike I was happily putting in some 19.5 averages on the Bianchi.
I have literally just gone out and double checked the measurements, and I have made adjustments. I have raised the seat again and pulled the saddle forward, which should match the reach with the Bianchi, as well as the saddle height as the saddle was low and the reach was further out on the Canyon. I have to confess I do have a slightly sore lower back today, although I don't know whether that's unrelated as I have ongoing back issues anyway.
Pictures as requested, and I am heading out this afternoon so will report back.
I have taken a video of me and my position - it's at the bottom of this post.
I tweaked it again today, turning the bars up. I have quite a sore lower back which I have had for a couple of days and I suspect it comes from last week when I was riding it overstretched. The soreness is subsiding now, and this is despite me riding the bike each day this week, so I am hoping that by adjusting things I can achieve the desired result. It's a significant deep ache though and not one I have had for a long time. I have double and triple checked the numbers, and they definitely match. If anything the Canyon should now be less aggressive than the Bianchi. I feel more relaxed on it today and certainly less stretched out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-dNeHTDP0
I tweaked it again today, turning the bars up. I have quite a sore lower back which I have had for a couple of days and I suspect it comes from last week when I was riding it overstretched. The soreness is subsiding now, and this is despite me riding the bike each day this week, so I am hoping that by adjusting things I can achieve the desired result. It's a significant deep ache though and not one I have had for a long time. I have double and triple checked the numbers, and they definitely match. If anything the Canyon should now be less aggressive than the Bianchi. I feel more relaxed on it today and certainly less stretched out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-dNeHTDP0
Yup, which is kind of the intention, as remember this is an all year round, endurance long distance bike for me, not something I am going to competitve on.
Believe it or not this is less upright than I used to be, I have relaxed into it a bit as I used to be like a building on the seat but over the last few months comments from other riders have lured me into a more relaxed position.
Believe it or not this is less upright than I used to be, I have relaxed into it a bit as I used to be like a building on the seat but over the last few months comments from other riders have lured me into a more relaxed position.
Probably yes, what I am intending is that as long as this remains comfortable, I will slowly and surely edge the seat back by a few mm at a time and try and get further back over the cranks. I have only adopted this approach short term as I was seemingly too stretched out to start off with and am paying the price a bit now. Once comfy, I will elongate a bit more.
Did 30 miles today with a decent climb chucked in, the actual climb felt ok and over 7 minutes I was only 10 seconds behind my previous time up it and that was on my De Ribble Merak. So perhaps it is just "feel" after all. I maintain it still "feels" heavier than I expected, but maybe it was my expectations that were off the mark.
hadenough! said:
The bikes look too small to me, looks like you're trying to get them to fit as you would with a mountain bike.
I spent quite a lot of time researching the size and fit before ordering. I am 5 foot 9 and seem to be shrinking with age. The measurement on their site put me in between XS and S. I also have a friend who is similar size to me, and has a S. I therefore chose small, as the top tube length was slightly less than my Bianchi which is slightly too big for me at 55cm.I can certainly say the frame doesn't feel too small, in fact it feels just right. The wheel base seems a bit shorter than I am used to. And in that video, the seat is pulled right forward and the handlebars pulled up. I am currently in the process of elongating those slightly.
I can flatten my back more even with it like it is now, and I certainly wouldn't want or need to be any more stretched out, so I don't feel size is an issue. The next size up, a medium, is over 55cm top tube, so too big.
Little update on this.
I feel happier about the bike on the whole having tweaked and got a bit more used to it, however I have noticed something which may go towards explaining how I initially felt towards the bike. I have barely come out the small ring on the front, not something I am used to as I never used the small ring previously unless going up anything of significant gradient. Maybe the gearing has played a part in my initial feel, don't know.
I managed a decent paced 40 mile commute this week, so I am fairly confident the bike is not "actually" slower than the previous bike, but I still maintain it feels very different and the constant deep aching from my quads suggests to me that I am having to work harder to achieve the same performance.
Annoyingly I have also found the the front wheel arrived with a slow puncture, it continues to lose around 8 psi a day, I will replace the tube but can't be bothered at the moment. In addition, the easiest gear (big ring at the back) keeps jumping down onto the next cog down, so that will need indexing by me, which is a hazardous thought. Canyon are sending replacement tubes though and I have been impressed with their customer service so far so no complaints there.
I feel happier about the bike on the whole having tweaked and got a bit more used to it, however I have noticed something which may go towards explaining how I initially felt towards the bike. I have barely come out the small ring on the front, not something I am used to as I never used the small ring previously unless going up anything of significant gradient. Maybe the gearing has played a part in my initial feel, don't know.
I managed a decent paced 40 mile commute this week, so I am fairly confident the bike is not "actually" slower than the previous bike, but I still maintain it feels very different and the constant deep aching from my quads suggests to me that I am having to work harder to achieve the same performance.
Annoyingly I have also found the the front wheel arrived with a slow puncture, it continues to lose around 8 psi a day, I will replace the tube but can't be bothered at the moment. In addition, the easiest gear (big ring at the back) keeps jumping down onto the next cog down, so that will need indexing by me, which is a hazardous thought. Canyon are sending replacement tubes though and I have been impressed with their customer service so far so no complaints there.
I think lower, slightly.
I have raised the seat twice since last week, I know for sure it was far too low last week when I built it up form the box and then when I raised it, I didn't raise it high enough, because when I checked my measurements again it was still slightly low. It now matches the bike fit numbers I was given, and is much better, but instinctively I feel like it could probably still be raised slightly.
The aches are dying down but the quads have definately had a new hit of work they have not been used to before. The small "sprocket" spins out to around 35mph so I am sticking to that rather than using the big ring, something I haven't done before.
Maybe despite all my efforts on the bike this year I am just getting fat!
I have raised the seat twice since last week, I know for sure it was far too low last week when I built it up form the box and then when I raised it, I didn't raise it high enough, because when I checked my measurements again it was still slightly low. It now matches the bike fit numbers I was given, and is much better, but instinctively I feel like it could probably still be raised slightly.
The aches are dying down but the quads have definately had a new hit of work they have not been used to before. The small "sprocket" spins out to around 35mph so I am sticking to that rather than using the big ring, something I haven't done before.
Maybe despite all my efforts on the bike this year I am just getting fat!
I'm pretty sure the numbers on the chainset are 53/26 but will go and have a look later and post up. I might also raise the saddle another few mm but the rest of the setup feels pretty good as does my back even in a lower position.
I don't think it's too small at all, the size chart and dimensions all match my height and build, plus side by side as pictured above both bikes are near identical just different frame angles. I certainly would not want a larger frame.
I don't think it's too small at all, the size chart and dimensions all match my height and build, plus side by side as pictured above both bikes are near identical just different frame angles. I certainly would not want a larger frame.
The position on that video is old though. The new position I have recorded this morning. As said it feels better. I also raised the saddle again today, less aching quads, but windy so still a hard ride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_1GN7Lr-PE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_1GN7Lr-PE
Matt_N said:
All this stuff was said on page 1 and 2, it's painful to read when the advice has already been given but ignored.
Have you not read all I have done, including the pics of the bikes next to each other and measuring them up side by side? Since then I have continued to adjust things and followed advice here by pushing the seat back to a more neutral position and instead adjusting the handlebars and saddle height to compensate...Hunched? I thought I was too upright before? Or do you mean I need a longer reach? I currently have a 90mm stem with a 100mm stem on the way so could extend the reach quite a bit with stem change and handlebar movements. Personally I find it suits me, back has been good as gold with no complaints.
mcelliott said:
Still a bit too upright to my eyes, the extra 10mm on the new stem is worth a try. Where does your saddle sit on the rails? forward/arft.
The saddle now and in that vid is slightly further back than where it was in the first vid where I pushed it forward almost as far as it could go. I pushed it back around 1cm so it currently still sits forward but more towards the centre. It has meant my knees are now more vertical when pushing on the pedals which is a good thing as before they were not.Edited by mcelliott on Friday 24th March 17:11
It's working for me there for now, no adverse issues and I have covered some ground on it. I could experiment with it some more though.
fromage said:
Out of interest what is the distance from the tip of your saddle to your handlebars (next to stem)
In a straight line to the centre of the handlebars 52.5cm. From the nose of the saddle to the hoods, so (diagonally measured) it is, for arguments sake, 66cm. I say that because the range between 64cm and 70cm covers the area where the hood starts all the way to the front edge of the shifter, so your hand encompasses a large area on the hood. 66cm is the point where the shifter starts from the bar tape so where your hand would be.The hoods are definitely more elongated and stretched out than the old Bianchi's.
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