JFReturns' Honda S2000

[JFReturns]

Hi all,

Not a project thread as I'm keeping the car relatively standard, but nevertheless I thought I would maintain a thread with my experience.

So here she is, a 2003 S2000 GT (called, erm.... Wanda) with 80,000 miles on the clock:



I've owned it for around six weeks now and what a great sports car. Manic performance once the VTEC kicks in from 6,000rpm, but surprisingly brisk performance can still be made below that. Not as comfortable and refined as I was expecting, even compared to my beloved MK1 MX5. The steering feels weighty but along with the chassis does not offer a great deal of feedback, but then I was spoiled by the '5.

Paintwork is in great condition, and needs very little correction. So far I have just lightly clayed, polished and sealed it until I have time to get the DA polisher out. Service history was full, but due one so the first thing I did was a full level 4 service at Gatwick Honda. Oh, and some windscreen wipers from Halfrauds (which were awful to fit!).

Costs so far
- Level 4 service: £324
- Wipers: £20

The service came with a free MOT which it passed easily, with advisories on the rear breaks and tyres all round (no worries there, budgeted). They also mentioned the timing chain was noisy, which costs around £1100 to replace . Further investigation reveals that the plastic runners can become worn causing the noise, but otherwise does no damage. The car was sat at the garage for a while and after putting some miles on it the chain sounds fine, so I won't worry about that.

The dealer mentioned the clutch 'didn't feel right', but they would need to take the gearbox out to check it. It does feel quite stiff, but loosens up when warm and especially after spirited driving. I have budgeted for a replacement clutch but there is no judder or slipping, and the biting point is not right at the top of the pedal travel. I also want to top up the coolant as it is not on the MAX line.

Apologies for waffling, and well done if you read this far. So I have a few questions:


- What coolant does Honda advise / use, and where can I buy it?
- Is there anything other than a worn clutch that would cause a heavy, sticky action?
- Does anyone else have a noisy engine chain that quietened after being used?


Thanks in advance, and any other comments or questions are welcome

J.

Edited by JFReturns on Tuesday 7th June 20:36

Edited by JFReturns on Tuesday 7th June 21:23

[JFReturns]

paulmoonraker said:

Stick a louder exhaust on it, and you wont be able to hear the chain

-P

The exhaust is on my list, but they are so expensive! A cat back for my MX5 was £160, the S2000 ones cost triple that!

ady_GTi said:

Car looks tidy, really considering one to replace the mx5, good to hear some more opinions.

No expert on s2k's but perhaps a clutch bleed or a slave cylinder is causing the stiffness?

The S2000 is a great replacement for an MX5. The reason I sold my '5 was I wanted something a bit faster and also safer. Not very PH I know, but I did worry about the lack of protection. For me, the S2000 feels like a bigger, more grown up MX5 (the MK3 MX5 does not appeal...).

[JFReturns]

Bit of an update. First thing, the coolant - after a bit of reading I discovered:

- Not to mix coolants
- Use Honda approved coolant as there is aluminium in the cooling system
- No need to add water, most are ready mixed 50 /50

£18 later, I got four litres from my local Honda garage and given it a tiny top up. Should last me ages!



Next job was to replace a metal bracket in the engine bay that had rusted. This holds down a rubber seal but water had got underneath causing it to perish. Replacement bracket = £20 from main dealer (screws were £4.20 EACH so I decided to re-use the old ones, whilst the rubber seal was fine). I soaked the screws in WD40 the night before to aid removal.

Before:





After:



In another thread, someone recommended I take the air filter box off and go for a drive. All I can say is WOW - the induction sound is fantastic! When I got back, I took a (poor quality) video to try and capture the sound which you can view here. I've put the cover back on for now, as I'm a bit worried about heatsoak.

Next was fitting my first mod



And finally, a gratuitous shiny shot:



Costs so far
- Level 4 service: £324
- Wipers: £20
- 4 Litres of Honda coolant: £18
- Seal bracket: £20
- PH smiley: £10

Edited by JFReturns on Sunday 12th June 16:14

[JFReturns]

MattDell said:

You took the air filter box off? Was there another filter on the intake or am I missing something here?

I didn't explain properly - I meant the air filter box lid. Check the YouTube vid

[JFReturns]

Small update. The oil was showing low on the dip stick after a long run; I paniced and searched furiously for a leak but couldn't find one. Should have RTFM

It is entirely normal for an S2000 to consume a litre of oil every 600 miles and just need topping up. I used Mobil fully synthetic 5w40 as this is what was used at the last oil change. For reference, 10w30 is preferred for improved fuel economy (it needs to say "API service SJ or SL"), and 5w40 is normally used if the temperature in your area goes down to -20! Oh well, 5w40 it is - £40 delivered.



Really impressed with the fuel economy of the S2000 on a run:



Eventually got around 340 miles before the fuel light came on. Not sure what MPG that equates to, but it is twice as frugal as my Scoob managed!

Costs so far
- Level 4 service: £324
- Wipers: £20
- 4 Litres of Honda coolant: £18
- Seal bracket: £20
- PH smiley: £10
- 5 litres oil: £40

[JFReturns]

Shiny pic to stop this thread getting too boring

[JFReturns]

iphonedyou said:

Regarding the noisy timing chain. Does the noise disappear when you press the clutch?

If so it could be the clutch release bearing. It makes a whiny rubbing noise that, in my experience, could be confused with a noisy timing chain.

Could well be. I'm taking it to a Honda specialist soon for a look over and will bring it up then. Cheers.

[JFReturns]

WBC said:

Hi, just bought an S2000 myself but frustratingly recovering from an operation so can't drive for 6 weeks. Regarding the clutch issue I am certain that I read an article on the official S2K forum (perhaps in the 'FAQs' section) about stiff clutches. Apologies for not remembering the exact details but brain is still not working 100%!

Here you go http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/301506-technical-f... you'll need to scroll down to find the bit on the clutch issue

Edited by WBC on Monday 4th July 13:22

How frustrating! It will be the sweetest drive when you have recovered though.

Thank you for the information, that is a great guide which I will mention to my mechanic to try first!

PlayersNo6 said:

"The S2000 is a great replacement for an MX5. The reason I sold my '5 was I wanted something a bit faster and also safer. Not very PH I know, but I did worry about the lack of protection. For me, the S2000 feels like a bigger, more grown up MX5"

Great looking car in my favourite colour for the S2000. Can you offer any more input on changing from your MX5 to the S2000 as I am considering trading up from my Mk2 1.8 MX5.

After dreaming of a Triumph Stag, I was initially thinking Boxster 2.5 but potential problems and costs are scaring me off so am now considering one of these.

Thanks

Where to start! First off, I think you are correct in choosing an S2000 over an older 2.5 Boxster. A 2.7 or S would be a harder decision, mind.

So, back to MX5 vs S2000 (my experience is of a MK1, I believe they will be valid for a MK2). Firstly, the S2000 does not offer anywhere near the communication the '5 does in terms of steering and chassis feedback. To steal a cliche, I could run over a fifty pence piece in the '5, and tell if it was heads or tails Jokes aside, it was soooooo easy to feel what the front wheels were doing through the steering, and the rears through the seat. I KNEW when it was about to lose grip, even in the wet. The S2000 is not so transparent, and though the steering is weighty it has little feel. Well, actually, the steering is pretty good but I am comparing it to the '5, and not much else this side of an Elise/VX220 will be better.

I won't cover aesthetics as they are subjective and you can make your mind up, but I do miss my pop ups! Gear change is fantastic on both, the best I've experienced. The '5 has a stubby lever and shorty throw, but the S2000 is so mechanical and precise; there is no rubbery-ness, you slot the gear and is stops. Nice and clean, crisp and accurate. Heel and toeing in both is easy, fun and rewarding in terms of smooth gearchanges. None of this computer aided, perfect blip on downshift, wipe your butt nonsense - you don't match the revs, you get a jerky, crap change. Get it right, and

Engine. You will have read that the S2000 can be frustrating to drive, and has to be thrashed to make any progress whatsoever. This is bks, especially if you are coming from an MX5. I would describe the speed as being exactly like your '5, with the added advantage of going ballistic at 6,000rpm. It does not feel like turbo lag (of which I have experience), just a smooth transition into a rortier, meaner and harder engine. You will love it - the feeling of revving to the change up point in your '5 then realising you have another 3,000rpm to go does not get old.

I imagine you have also read that the S2000's handling is dangerous, and will chew you up and spit you out with no hesitation. Again, bks. The horror stories likely arise because they are cheap enough for young idiots who drive them like a FWD hatch, with predictable consequences. Give it the respect it deserves, especially in the wet, and you will be fine.

The insurance will be higher than your '5, can't hide that. For reference, I paid £300 ish for the '5, and £650 for the S2000. Servicing and maintenence will be more expensive, but overall reasonable (and less than the Boxster).

As previously mentioned, the S2000 does feel like a more grown up, faster version of the '5. It is (surprisingly) not much more refined though - lots of engine noise, tyre noise and overall high NVH. Something to consider if you do a lot of motorway miles (though I found it great, feeling fresh and ache free at the end of the journey). The stereo is pretty crap. In addition, you don't get any toys (trip computer, cruise control etc) and the steering wheel does not adjust. Nevertheless, I found it easy to get settled into a good position and I don't doubt you will too. One of the things I love is how the dash and layout is centred round the driver. All controls are a hands breadth away, from the gear stick to the heater controls.

Similar fuel economy, so long as you don't stray into the VTEC too often. Obviously the S2000 is safer than my old '5, with airbags etc.

I'm sure I've missed loads out, but don't want to waffle too much more (though I could!). Overall, I believe the S2000 is a much more natural progression from a MK1/2 MX5 than any other car, MK3 included. Whilst it does not handle or communicate as well as the '5, it trumps it in every other area and I recommend it in a heartbeat.



I still miss my '5 though, badly!

[JFReturns]

Further to the Boxster comment, here is a link to Boxster 2.7 vs S2000 I remember reading in EVO. The S2000 does well, but gets beaten. Take note; the article is based purely on driving and not overall ownership!

[JFReturns]

PlayersNo6 said:

Thanks for the reply JF (not Sebastian is it?), most informative.

Erm no, my name is Robert

I think Gaz had pretty much answered your questions, but any more, fire away!

[JFReturns]

RichyBoy said:

"A litre of oil every 600 miles." I had two of them and neither used anything like that.

I'm going by the manual Richy. I quote: "The amount of oil consumed depends on how the vehicle is driven and the climatic and road conditions encountered. The rate of oil consumption can be up to 1l per 1,000km/600 miles. Consumption is likely to be higher when the engine is new."

[JFReturns]

PlayersNo6 said:

Thanks for the views Gaz, appreciated.

JF - JF Sebastian = 'Bladerunner' character.

This looks to be a nice car :

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2985008.htm

Gah, why didn't I get that!!

That car looks good tbh, well worth a view (personally not keen on the blue interior). Let us now how you get on. Make sure the wheel locking nut is present.

[JFReturns]

Gaz. said:

JFReturns said:

Gah, why didn't I get that!!

The law of sod, see something as good as your new car for less, or better for the same price you paid, it's why I don't look in the classifieds after a purchase

I meant the Bladerunner reference

Of course, your point is very, very valid and I no longer look at the S2000 adverts!

[JFReturns]

ady_GTi said:

From what I have read the undercar cross braces do a lot to improve the steering feel, I don't know how close it would get to the mx5 but even 8/10ths would be good!

Hmmm, interesting. I'll look into it, cheers.

jsl20 said:

OP: you say you got 340 miles out of a tank-is this on regular or high octane fuel?

I use premium fuel only.

Note that was on a long trip too, I would say normal driving would result in 250 - 280 miles per tank.

[JFReturns]

Nice day today, and a great drive in to work. I cycle in most days, but Fridays Wanda gets a run out

Some pics:

[JFReturns]

russy01 said:

Just came back from a nice trip to cornwall, used just over two tanks of fuel and did about 650 miles (all roof down). So looking at about 300 miles a tank, however half of the trip (so half of each tank was 75-80mph top down dual carriage way cruising)

However have a fast week and you could empty a tank in 200miles quite easily.

I think that is pretty damn good, considering the performance on offer

But yes, I can imagine 200 miles on a tank is possible. Better than my Scoob though, where I had to try in order to get over 150 miles, and that had a bigger tank!

[JFReturns]

paulmoonraker said:

You must have been wearing clogs 150 miles indeed...

Not you again!

I admit, my Scoob was especially juicy

[JFReturns]

zombies said:

A Q I have is - sometimes over bumps (not always) on the drivers side it can be hard over the smallest bump, almost like no shock absorber, I cant find if its front or rear.
Any ideas on this?

Well the shock absorbers do wear out over time, but also the bushes. Quite a big job apparently as they are tough to get off.

[JFReturns]

Rich A said:

I just wanted to chip in and say, JFReturns: nice car! and I agree with everything said in this thread so far.

Thanks

Update, and a good one As mentioned in my first post, the clutch was very heavy and there was a clonking/ticking noise coming from the engine when hot and after a run (like a piece of card held against bicycle spokes). The main Honda dealer advised a new clutch (£1100) and a new timing chain (£1200+, estimate).

I have just come back from the garage I used to take my '5 to (Freelance Mazda, also Freelance Honda) and they have fixed both issues for the princely sum of £80. They also removed my locking nuts free of charge, as I wasn't given the key.

The issues? The clutch fork was dry as a bone, and need cleaning up and re-greasing. The engine noise was narrowed down to the timing chain tensioner (TCT) which they stripped and cleaned, then put back. This stopped the noise but if it does come back then they will replace the TCT for £300.

It was likely that as the car stood for a while before being sold, the TCT didn't get as much oil as it needed. Now it is cleaned, and with use, this should solve the problem.

Moral of the story - don't trust main dealers!

[JFReturns]

Serg2K said:

Gaz. said:

Wow.

Do you have the contact details of that garage?

Incidently I've got 150 miles from half a tank so far, although my gauge gets a bit naughty towards empty.

They are all like that I think. The gauge is only accurate at full! from then on its an increasingly erratic reading.

Caught me out twice.
The first time, soon after I bought it, I parked up with a 3rd of a tank after a spirited drive. Come the next morning and it's reading 2 or 3 bars... queue the dealer ripping the tank out to investigate, nothing found.
The second time I arrived at work with 3 bars left (very risky), come home time and I cant start the car! no bars! I let the car roll downhill a bit until its level it finally started... It was a very nervous gentle drive to the nearest petrol station! During the drive to the PS 3 bars magically materialize... wtf.

Garage is Freelance Mazda, in Chatham - don't know how close that is for you Gaz.

The fuel guage is a bit hit and miss. This morning I drove to the petrol station as I was on two bars but the pumps were out, bugger. No worries though, because when I turned the engine on again it was on five bars!