S2000 or CTR turbo?

[SuperchargedVR6]

Good morning Honda fans

I'm about to leave my 20 year history of Volkswagens and step into the world of Hondaness. Well, I already have a Honda lawnmower, so I feel some kind loyalty to the brand already

The reason being I have always loved the S2000 and I'd like to buy one, but I also want to fatten up it's midrange torque with a turbo. I've been there already with centrifugal superchargers and I hate them.

I have quite a lot of experience in turboing VWs that weren't forced fed to begin with and I'm hoping I can translate this experience into Honda land.

That VTEC motor flows shed loads of air, so is the perfect base for a turbo engine and it won't need stupid boost pressures to make good power.

My main questions are:-

1) Are there any bolt-on turbo kits for the S2000, or any VTEC engine for that matter? Initially I am thinking a Garret GT3071R with a 1.06AR back housing. I think a GT35R will be too laggy, but I've used one before and it's a great turbo. What do you think?

2) Is the S2000 the right chassis for it? Or should I do it to the more predictable Civic instead?

3) Are the gearboxes up to handling the torque? I would want no more than 400hp with ~350lbft torque.

4) Do either the S2000 or CTR have an LSD?

Thanks

Edited by SuperchargedVR6 on Wednesday 10th October 11:52

[SuperchargedVR6]

Thanks guys, some good pointers to get started with.

I've read most of the S2000 buying guide and it seems apart from the soft top developing holes and the suspension bush bolts seizing up, there doesn't appear to be a big list of achilles heels. That's half the reason I have chosen to go Honda, the reliability. A thirst for oil I can live with. I'm well used to that with VWs!

The reason I asked if the S2000 was the right chassis is because I've heard it can be quite wayward and too easy to get the back end out of shape? If the chassis is easy to unbalance with it's standard power, am I asking for bother sticking a turbo on it?

I've driven a few CTRs (but not an S2K yet) and they feel very benign and predictable, so could perhaps be a better platform for low boost applications? I do fancy a change to RWD though. I've owned several BMWs too and know what that propulsion method is like (and how useless it is in the winter!) but the FWC Civic feels so neutral, it's hard to tell which wheels are driven sometimes.

I'd love a DC5 Integ, but getting a good one over here is a fair of bit of hassle I don't want.

Anyway, I haven't decided on which model year S2000 / CTR to go for yet as my engine plans are kind dictating the choice at the moment. I'm warming to a late S2000 with hardtop. I hear Honda made some tweaks to the chassis on the later cars?

I've seen a few Supercharge torque curves and they don't seem to fatten up the <4000rpm area as much as I would like. Admittedly, I am being greedy here. I want the bottom end AND the top end

And yep, which ever car I get, I shall of course enjoy it in N'asp form whilst I source the parts.

Thanks for the other info about the gearboxes, LSD and links etc. I shall do some researching!

Oh, one other thing. Is the S2000's gearing as short as the CTR's? I'm kinda hoping it is!

[SuperchargedVR6]

Many thanks Russy and to the rest of you!

I saw a yellow S2000 flying round a roundabout several cars up in the commuting traffic this morning. My mind was made up at that point. S2000 it is!

There's a Honda dealer near me, so I'll try and take one out for a test drive this weekend if they've got one in. 2005 model year I'll aim for then.

I tried to get onto s2ki this morning but it appears to be down. I also looked at this site and 400hp with 265lbft for £4000 seems very reasonable - http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Rotrex/pages/...

I've seen Rotrex chargers in action on other engines and I think their boost delivery (i.e late!) quite suits the VTEC's character. It's the Vortech centrifugal chargers I hate. God awful things.

I'll keep an eye on s2ki coming back online and will have a good browse!

[SuperchargedVR6]

Kozy said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

3) Are the gearboxes up to handling the torque? I would want no more than 400hp with ~350lbft torque.

One or the other in a Honda. Due to the revs, 400bhp will be about 280lbft, 350lbft will be about 500bhp.

I suspect you want the former, which should be fine.

OK thanks. I think 400hp with 280lbft will keep me amused and not push the engine / drivetrain too far out of it's comfort zone. I want to keep as many parts original as possible. I've been there in the past with having to upgrade everything to cope with the torque, so something sensible is my aim.

scz4 said:

If you're after ultimate power headlines then it has to be a turbo or supercharger. Not sure a supercharger will help much until above 4500rpm, which is where the car starts to become alive anyway.

I'm actually quite warming to the Rotrex the more I read up on it. I have experience of them on VW engines that don't flow very much and the results weren't spectacular. I think on a VTEC, there's more bang for the same psi available, so it should feel a whole lot punchier everywhere in the rev range, in theory! If the S can rev to 9000, then the party starting at 4500rpm is fine. I forget how short the gearing is, so aiming for sub 4000rpm torque may not be necessary.

scz4 said:

In one of my M3's, I changed the final drive ratio and it made a positive difference to acceleration, whilst making it much more responsive low down, gets you into the power zone a lot quicker. Plus it gives 10-15% more torque at the wheels which is what counts. I think that's where I'll be going with the S2000. The enjoyable part of the car is the ability to use all of the available power on the road, it just needs a little more mid-range. I estimate it will be about £800 all in with genuine Honda parts.

Yeah I messed around with diffs on my old VWs and E30 325i BMWs. The acceleration did improve nicely but I found I kept reaching for a 6th that wasn't there and the drivetrain shunting in traffic was worse, but overall, a good mod.

[SuperchargedVR6]

scz4 said:

Interesting. My Z4 had a twin screw supercharger which are these most efficient in terms of loses through drive and temperature, it also generated full boost at 1950rpm, almost like a turbo, where as a centrifugal 'charger makes maximum boost at maximum revs. How does the rotrex work in comparison? I'm not familiar with those. I see TTS Performance is £3900 + VAT for the kit.

Ah OK, so you ran a positive displacment charger Eaton? Nice one
The Rotrex is a centrifugal charger like the Vortechs, but the neat thing with the Rotrex is it uses it's own autonomous oiling system, so there's no need to be tapping sumps and Teeing oil feeds off the filter housing etc. It's a true bolt on / unbolt kit, in theory.

scz4 said:

Any idea how much weight the Rotrex adds?

As a complete kit I don't know, but the charger itself is heavier than it looks! The special gearbox is most of it's bulk and weight. My friend's old C30-94 Rotrex wasn't far off the weight of my GT30 turbo.

scz4 said:

Oh.. and I wonder just how expensive a supercharged S2000 would be to insure, the standard car is bad enough given the performance.

Oh really? How much roughly for a standard car? I'm 39 with full bonus if it helps. I live in a quite village too, which stupidly enough increases the bloody premium because in the insurer's eyes, there are no 'passers by' to see the car being stolen!! I hate insurance companies. Thieves, the lot of them!

[SuperchargedVR6]

Absolutely not to ITBs if they're open trumpets. Been there, done that. Hate the noise. Hate the lack of torque. Enclosed ITBs in a decent plenum (ala BMW M style), now that's a different matter

Thanks again guys and the change to DBW at 2006 is handy to know!

I am now considering getting a LHD one. Where would I find such a beast in this country, or would I have to import one? The reason for it is my girlfrient lost her right ear to meningitis when she was a child, so we can't talk properly in RHD cars.

Been looking around on s2ki.com a lot recently and I'm liking what I see very much. Especially PTuning's turbo kit. Are there any decent UK S2K forums?

Not had time to test drive one yet. Been too busy