BMW E36 328 Track Car - Advice?
Discussion
Hi all,
yes I know its the old cliché E36 track car perhaps now long in the tooth, nevertheless two friends and I have committed and purchased a 328 Sport Coupe for the obligatory fun time without breaking the bank....or the wife's breaking our heads lol
I have been a passive member here for a few years and have spent countless hours reading up on the subject of the E36 as a track tool, on the back of which some great advice was found and followed, so thanks to all contributors on the subject going back to posts made in 2007
Now onto the car. We purchased in July this year, and spent the following four months on and off buying parts and carrying out mechanical maintenance and various necessary upgrades towards reliability, with a couple of upgrades added towards performance along the way.
We took the car on it's shakedown on December 1st to Bedford GT circuit through javelin, primarily to find out if all was well mechanically. Not withstanding a couple of adjustments with the spanners after the siting laps, the car performed above expectations, so by he end it was being chucked about and abused a little to ensure nothing would break close to the limit. In that regard we are 98% satisfied all is well as it stands with exception to the brake pads and discs which were as it stood after purchase.
I have a query however that I have been unable to find an answer to neither on UK nor US forums, so I decided to post here and ask for some advice.
The car came equipped with cheap coilovers (JOM I believe) at time of purchase and whilst this is planned to be addressed further down the line, our preparation plan is going to be focusing on refreshing various other underpinnings first.
So to my query, I have read in various posts on the interweb that fitting an uprated front ARB is a good way to go. With that said however, in none of those cases were coilover setups mentioned in conjunction with an uprated front ARB. My understanding of car balance tells me that fitting a bigger ARB upfront only is likely to induce understeer. Further not withstanding budget coilovers, my experience with coilovers thus far has proven to significantly reduce body roll, at least as far as fast road cars I have owned are concerned (none have been BMW). My query therefore is with respect to the benefit or lack there of, installing an uprated front ARB on the E36 platform that is already using coilovers.
With regards to the current setup chassis wise:
1. Jom coilovers (height adjustable only).
2. Treehouse Racing (US based) eccentric lilipops fitted.
2. M3 front cross member fitted along with an M X-brace.
3. M3 Evo engine mounts.
4. rear end is currently standard (but is next on the plan for a complete overhaul, following the brakes overhaul).
There are other upgrades already installed but they are not chassis/suspension related so not relevant, but can list if required.
The car is fully stripped out fitted with two bucket seats and only the top part of the dash remaining.
Any views on the subject are welcome from those with more experience than us.
Many thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone :-)
Humour
yes I know its the old cliché E36 track car perhaps now long in the tooth, nevertheless two friends and I have committed and purchased a 328 Sport Coupe for the obligatory fun time without breaking the bank....or the wife's breaking our heads lol
I have been a passive member here for a few years and have spent countless hours reading up on the subject of the E36 as a track tool, on the back of which some great advice was found and followed, so thanks to all contributors on the subject going back to posts made in 2007
Now onto the car. We purchased in July this year, and spent the following four months on and off buying parts and carrying out mechanical maintenance and various necessary upgrades towards reliability, with a couple of upgrades added towards performance along the way.
We took the car on it's shakedown on December 1st to Bedford GT circuit through javelin, primarily to find out if all was well mechanically. Not withstanding a couple of adjustments with the spanners after the siting laps, the car performed above expectations, so by he end it was being chucked about and abused a little to ensure nothing would break close to the limit. In that regard we are 98% satisfied all is well as it stands with exception to the brake pads and discs which were as it stood after purchase.
I have a query however that I have been unable to find an answer to neither on UK nor US forums, so I decided to post here and ask for some advice.
The car came equipped with cheap coilovers (JOM I believe) at time of purchase and whilst this is planned to be addressed further down the line, our preparation plan is going to be focusing on refreshing various other underpinnings first.
So to my query, I have read in various posts on the interweb that fitting an uprated front ARB is a good way to go. With that said however, in none of those cases were coilover setups mentioned in conjunction with an uprated front ARB. My understanding of car balance tells me that fitting a bigger ARB upfront only is likely to induce understeer. Further not withstanding budget coilovers, my experience with coilovers thus far has proven to significantly reduce body roll, at least as far as fast road cars I have owned are concerned (none have been BMW). My query therefore is with respect to the benefit or lack there of, installing an uprated front ARB on the E36 platform that is already using coilovers.
With regards to the current setup chassis wise:
1. Jom coilovers (height adjustable only).
2. Treehouse Racing (US based) eccentric lilipops fitted.
2. M3 front cross member fitted along with an M X-brace.
3. M3 Evo engine mounts.
4. rear end is currently standard (but is next on the plan for a complete overhaul, following the brakes overhaul).
There are other upgrades already installed but they are not chassis/suspension related so not relevant, but can list if required.
The car is fully stripped out fitted with two bucket seats and only the top part of the dash remaining.
Any views on the subject are welcome from those with more experience than us.
Many thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone :-)
Humour
@iguana thank you for the feedback. I agree with your line of thought, but thought I would ask here as my knowledge of the E36 platform is very limited.
@McSam also thank you for the feedback Sam. The Joms came with the car, so for now they will be used, but the intention is to get the HSD Monopro coilies eventually so to gain camber and castor adjustment capability up front without breaking the bank. Before we get to the suspension though we have other priorities so we will follow an agreed upgrade path.
Interesting that you suggest 0.10~0.20 degrees toe out at the front. We did a base geo on the car before the track day and asked for zero toe on the front and standard 328 sport toe at the back whilst the rear end is all standard with old bushings in place. When we got the car the rear geo was all over the place and the ditch finder HiFly tyres were squealing on every roundabout at low speeds, which following the geo was corrected and the rear end felt much better even though we are still running the ditch finders until we get the rear end sorted.
The rear shock towers already have reinforcement plates installed top and bottom, this was already on the car when we purchased it, so I think we will be ok until we get the HSD's. We had the M3 front cross member supplied with engine mounts reinforcement plates welded in by Chris at CRM-Tech who supplied the part. We are also planning to have rear chassis reinforcement plates welded in when the rear end is taken out at some point in 2015 to rebuild it.
As far as LSD, the car is a 98 YOM model so ASC+T was fitted from the factory. I was however able to find a rebuilt 40% lock LSD (using 3 clutch plates) along with stronger end cap bolts which I sourced from the US. Also managed to source a used C&P with 3.23 ratio from the EU, both of which are sitting in stock awaiting to be put into the differential during the rear end rebuild, so we will have an LSD in the near future and I cant wait, as the inside wheel spin on track was humorous but rather boring. We have removed the ASC+T system and throttle body so this isn't going to get in the way of the LSD
We have a few other pictures but their file size is too big to upload here despite trying to reduce it. Also had a small video taken by my friend and partner in crime nearing the end of the day at Bedford on his phone, so he had to keep it on the low down when coming into and out of marshal posts for obvious reasonshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3_-jNpag_w
Regards, Humour
@McSam also thank you for the feedback Sam. The Joms came with the car, so for now they will be used, but the intention is to get the HSD Monopro coilies eventually so to gain camber and castor adjustment capability up front without breaking the bank. Before we get to the suspension though we have other priorities so we will follow an agreed upgrade path.
Interesting that you suggest 0.10~0.20 degrees toe out at the front. We did a base geo on the car before the track day and asked for zero toe on the front and standard 328 sport toe at the back whilst the rear end is all standard with old bushings in place. When we got the car the rear geo was all over the place and the ditch finder HiFly tyres were squealing on every roundabout at low speeds, which following the geo was corrected and the rear end felt much better even though we are still running the ditch finders until we get the rear end sorted.
The rear shock towers already have reinforcement plates installed top and bottom, this was already on the car when we purchased it, so I think we will be ok until we get the HSD's. We had the M3 front cross member supplied with engine mounts reinforcement plates welded in by Chris at CRM-Tech who supplied the part. We are also planning to have rear chassis reinforcement plates welded in when the rear end is taken out at some point in 2015 to rebuild it.
As far as LSD, the car is a 98 YOM model so ASC+T was fitted from the factory. I was however able to find a rebuilt 40% lock LSD (using 3 clutch plates) along with stronger end cap bolts which I sourced from the US. Also managed to source a used C&P with 3.23 ratio from the EU, both of which are sitting in stock awaiting to be put into the differential during the rear end rebuild, so we will have an LSD in the near future and I cant wait, as the inside wheel spin on track was humorous but rather boring. We have removed the ASC+T system and throttle body so this isn't going to get in the way of the LSD
We have a few other pictures but their file size is too big to upload here despite trying to reduce it. Also had a small video taken by my friend and partner in crime nearing the end of the day at Bedford on his phone, so he had to keep it on the low down when coming into and out of marshal posts for obvious reasons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3_-jNpag_wRegards, Humour
Also, what are your views on performance oriented modifications? In particular the exhaust system setup of the M52?
I've been reading that M3 Evo manifolds, centre section and custom cat back or Scorpion equivalents have been used to good effect along with other mods, but the gains relative to the cost have been minimal, other than perhaps loosing a bit more weight compared to the standard exhaust setup. Having looked at the OEM manifolds although tubular the ports mating to the head look quite restrictive, so there may be some value in getting busy with a dremmel, but the OEM item doesn't look like its equal length so not much can be done there without replacing it.
We currently have an M50 manifold and an Alpina 68mm BBTB installed along with a Simota air intake and according to the last owner a remap with an EWS delete and a 7.5Krpm limiter, but the car doesn't feel like it pulls as hard beyond 6.5Krpm, just revving out instead.
Also considering sourcing an M54B30 inlet camshaft, sprocket and Vanos gear to drop in the engine to try and force a bit more air in it. Any thoughts? I know about the S52 cams but they are rocking horse poo as far as I'm concerned.
P.S. In terms of the use for the car, it is 100% track only toy, however we are keeping it road legal as it allows us to drive to the third owner's garage in another town to have work carried out, along with any other garages we need to take the car to for maintenance/development work. At present we do not have the space to accommodate a trailer, or the funds to include something like this in our budget.
regards, Humour.
I've been reading that M3 Evo manifolds, centre section and custom cat back or Scorpion equivalents have been used to good effect along with other mods, but the gains relative to the cost have been minimal, other than perhaps loosing a bit more weight compared to the standard exhaust setup. Having looked at the OEM manifolds although tubular the ports mating to the head look quite restrictive, so there may be some value in getting busy with a dremmel, but the OEM item doesn't look like its equal length so not much can be done there without replacing it.
We currently have an M50 manifold and an Alpina 68mm BBTB installed along with a Simota air intake and according to the last owner a remap with an EWS delete and a 7.5Krpm limiter, but the car doesn't feel like it pulls as hard beyond 6.5Krpm, just revving out instead.
Also considering sourcing an M54B30 inlet camshaft, sprocket and Vanos gear to drop in the engine to try and force a bit more air in it. Any thoughts? I know about the S52 cams but they are rocking horse poo as far as I'm concerned.
P.S. In terms of the use for the car, it is 100% track only toy, however we are keeping it road legal as it allows us to drive to the third owner's garage in another town to have work carried out, along with any other garages we need to take the car to for maintenance/development work. At present we do not have the space to accommodate a trailer, or the funds to include something like this in our budget.
regards, Humour.
Edited by Humour on Wednesday 24th December 10:01
Hi Mark,
I've read through your build thread in the past. Excellent build.
Our budget however is probably less than quarter of yours. ITB's, Cams ect. would be great brand new but way out of budget for us at the moment, plus from what you have said, they are not a straight fit
Anyway, our car needs a fair bit of tidying up in the handling and underpinnings department and that where the funds will be going in first.
An M54B30 camshaft can be had for little under 150 quid from the right seller, a fraction of Cat cams even, hence under consideration. We cant all get our parts for free btw :P
I am interested in details of your 6 branch exhaust manifold however, as I have read allot about RHD models not having much choice in that department. If you are able to share a bit more about your exhaust setup, that would be great
BTW, you might want to look up on you tube an E36 328 running M3 ITB's and pushing out 308BHP in NA form!!! That's over 100bhp/1L, so there is scope for the M52 to make big power relative to its capacity.
regards, Humour
I've read through your build thread in the past. Excellent build.
Our budget however is probably less than quarter of yours. ITB's, Cams ect. would be great brand new but way out of budget for us at the moment, plus from what you have said, they are not a straight fit
Anyway, our car needs a fair bit of tidying up in the handling and underpinnings department and that where the funds will be going in first.An M54B30 camshaft can be had for little under 150 quid from the right seller, a fraction of Cat cams even, hence under consideration. We cant all get our parts for free btw :P
I am interested in details of your 6 branch exhaust manifold however, as I have read allot about RHD models not having much choice in that department. If you are able to share a bit more about your exhaust setup, that would be great
BTW, you might want to look up on you tube an E36 328 running M3 ITB's and pushing out 308BHP in NA form!!! That's over 100bhp/1L, so there is scope for the M52 to make big power relative to its capacity.
regards, Humour
@andyiley, thanks for the feedback. 5degrees negative camber in the rear 
that seems like a massive amount to me.
The car will be fully polly bushed. The front end is already done with exception to the ARB bushes. The rear end is planned to be completely disassembled and rebuilt along with the differential at which time the rear end will also be polly bushed throughout. The only indecision at the moment is whether to go solid bushes (aluminium) for the Differential or the Subframe, there are arguments for and against each option, but we are still undecided until parts start getting ordered.
@McSam, its hard to give an informed opinion yet to be honest Sam. The car is mostly as it was bought. Currently it has two different branded tyres on the front axle (Michelin and Pirelli iirc) and HiFly ditch finders on the rear axle. The rears seemed to gain rubber instead of loose it during the shakedown
We have fitted Treehouse racing FCAB eccentric lollipops using a completely different bushing arrangement and are almost solid, but add more caster. We also fitted a Z3 steering rack as one came up for silly money so I couldn't refuse. Along with the M3 Evo engine mounts, and the X-brace, the front end felt quite sharp, pointy, and easy to change direction, but it did feel a tad understeery in the slow hairpins at Bedford. Given that all of the above was done before we had ever taken the car on track, this really is our only baseline, so we don't have anything to compare to yet.
I have to say I don't understand your references to "minutes" of alignment instead of degrees, but maybe its my lack of knowledge about terminologies lol.
Interesting about your view on the OEM manifolds. I have read through many threads suggesting that the gain from manifolds is minimal (5-9bhp range) and that the standard exhaust apart from being heavy is actually pretty good. I'm curious to hear about what Supersprint manifolds you think you will be buying, because I have searched including the Superpsrint website for "RHD" exhaust manifolds for the 6 cylinder engines and there are none listed, even the M3 ones are "LHD" only. The only other options I have seen are Chinese knock offs via UK ebay sellers, stacking them high and selling them cheap. The pictures of which do not suggest good quality or design thought having been applied (e.g. equal length, tig welds, etc.) So I'm not convinced there is a solution out there for RHD cars without going fully custom which will be in the 2-3K range for an exhaust system and that for 5-10bhp gain is just not worth it imo.
The M50 was fitted before we bought the car. Badly I might add!!! The plastic t-pieces used to connect various vacuum pipes are not designed to compress and were mangled by the hose circlips as a result, in turn resulting in air leaks galore. I took most of it out, connected the ICV direct to the M50, removed the CCV and installed a new pipe with an aluminium T-piece at one end attached to an Oil breather with the small outlet of the T-piece attached to the original oil drain pipe back into the sump. The other end of the pipe attaches direct to the cam cover outlet. In effect venting crank case oil vapours into atmosphere for now, but with the provision for oil to drain back into the engine once it cool down and returns to liquid form.
After this, I contacted Alpina (member on one of the BMW forums) who supplied me with his 68mm BBTB and I fitted that whilst at the same time I removed the ASC+T throttle body and used a pre ASC+T intake pipe (pre 1995 I think) between the MAF and BBTB. Apart from some new piping to couple the Simota to the MAF at the required angle, that was the Intake done and dusted.
The car does feel free at the top end, but the torque dies down after 6500krpm so revving it more doesn't feel like is providing much benefit imo. Having looked at some BW Chiptune dyno graphs of cars running similar setups before and after mapping, my theory appears to be confirmed as the torque curve dies down after 6-6500krpm even though the hp curve goes on up to 7Krpm on the same graphs, so in my opinion shifting much beyond 6.5K is less efficient even though the engine is happy to rev beyond that.
I don't know the weight of the car as it stands. Too much work yet to be done before I will be interested to know where we are as an end result.
BTW, if you go shopping in MK BMW, you are not too far away from us. We are based in Luton, so a visit either way in the new year when we tax the car again could be on the cards if you are up for it. P.S. enjoyed watching your missus doing her thing on track @ Bedford, her hand placement and use of the wheel reminds me of being in a car with an "L" plate though 
Regards, Humour
that seems like a massive amount to me. The car will be fully polly bushed. The front end is already done with exception to the ARB bushes. The rear end is planned to be completely disassembled and rebuilt along with the differential at which time the rear end will also be polly bushed throughout. The only indecision at the moment is whether to go solid bushes (aluminium) for the Differential or the Subframe, there are arguments for and against each option, but we are still undecided until parts start getting ordered.
@McSam, its hard to give an informed opinion yet to be honest Sam. The car is mostly as it was bought. Currently it has two different branded tyres on the front axle (Michelin and Pirelli iirc) and HiFly ditch finders on the rear axle. The rears seemed to gain rubber instead of loose it during the shakedown
We have fitted Treehouse racing FCAB eccentric lollipops using a completely different bushing arrangement and are almost solid, but add more caster. We also fitted a Z3 steering rack as one came up for silly money so I couldn't refuse. Along with the M3 Evo engine mounts, and the X-brace, the front end felt quite sharp, pointy, and easy to change direction, but it did feel a tad understeery in the slow hairpins at Bedford. Given that all of the above was done before we had ever taken the car on track, this really is our only baseline, so we don't have anything to compare to yet.
I have to say I don't understand your references to "minutes" of alignment instead of degrees, but maybe its my lack of knowledge about terminologies lol.
Interesting about your view on the OEM manifolds. I have read through many threads suggesting that the gain from manifolds is minimal (5-9bhp range) and that the standard exhaust apart from being heavy is actually pretty good. I'm curious to hear about what Supersprint manifolds you think you will be buying, because I have searched including the Superpsrint website for "RHD" exhaust manifolds for the 6 cylinder engines and there are none listed, even the M3 ones are "LHD" only. The only other options I have seen are Chinese knock offs via UK ebay sellers, stacking them high and selling them cheap. The pictures of which do not suggest good quality or design thought having been applied (e.g. equal length, tig welds, etc.) So I'm not convinced there is a solution out there for RHD cars without going fully custom which will be in the 2-3K range for an exhaust system and that for 5-10bhp gain is just not worth it imo.
The M50 was fitted before we bought the car. Badly I might add!!! The plastic t-pieces used to connect various vacuum pipes are not designed to compress and were mangled by the hose circlips as a result, in turn resulting in air leaks galore. I took most of it out, connected the ICV direct to the M50, removed the CCV and installed a new pipe with an aluminium T-piece at one end attached to an Oil breather with the small outlet of the T-piece attached to the original oil drain pipe back into the sump. The other end of the pipe attaches direct to the cam cover outlet. In effect venting crank case oil vapours into atmosphere for now, but with the provision for oil to drain back into the engine once it cool down and returns to liquid form.
After this, I contacted Alpina (member on one of the BMW forums) who supplied me with his 68mm BBTB and I fitted that whilst at the same time I removed the ASC+T throttle body and used a pre ASC+T intake pipe (pre 1995 I think) between the MAF and BBTB. Apart from some new piping to couple the Simota to the MAF at the required angle, that was the Intake done and dusted.
The car does feel free at the top end, but the torque dies down after 6500krpm so revving it more doesn't feel like is providing much benefit imo. Having looked at some BW Chiptune dyno graphs of cars running similar setups before and after mapping, my theory appears to be confirmed as the torque curve dies down after 6-6500krpm even though the hp curve goes on up to 7Krpm on the same graphs, so in my opinion shifting much beyond 6.5K is less efficient even though the engine is happy to rev beyond that.
I don't know the weight of the car as it stands. Too much work yet to be done before I will be interested to know where we are as an end result.
BTW, if you go shopping in MK BMW, you are not too far away from us. We are based in Luton, so a visit either way in the new year when we tax the car again could be on the cards if you are up for it.
P.S. enjoyed watching your missus doing her thing on track @ Bedford, her hand placement and use of the wheel reminds me of being in a car with an "L" plate though Regards, Humour
Edited by Humour on Wednesday 24th December 16:48
e21Mark said:
You could consider using Jenvey manifolds and M3 ITB's, running the OE ECU in Alpha N mode?
The 6 branch manifold I have was a fluke find on Gumtree. Delivered to my kitchen window for the princely sum of £40! It was brand new and the guy had simply changed his mind about fitting it to his 328. Unfortunately I have no idea what make it is or whether it was for RHD or LHD? When it was tried on my e21 though, only one or two pipes needed alterations. The guys who did the Tig welding were impressed with the quality of materials too. The exhaust is simply a twin pipe 323 style system made from 50mm stainless, with free flow silencers.
WOW! You lucky sod......I'm not jealous, honest The 6 branch manifold I have was a fluke find on Gumtree. Delivered to my kitchen window for the princely sum of £40! It was brand new and the guy had simply changed his mind about fitting it to his 328. Unfortunately I have no idea what make it is or whether it was for RHD or LHD? When it was tried on my e21 though, only one or two pipes needed alterations. The guys who did the Tig welding were impressed with the quality of materials too. The exhaust is simply a twin pipe 323 style system made from 50mm stainless, with free flow silencers.
Shame you don't know the source of the manifold. Perhaps the original seller can shed some light if you have his contact details?
I have no idea what ECU or Map is in our car. Only that the previous owner said that the car was mapped with EWS delete applied and from his feedback it sounded like the previous owner to him carried this out and probably most of the basic strip and prep of the interior.
Hum
andyiley said:
No, just adjustable top mounts & Spax coilovers dropped by around 40mm, she corners real well, my favourite haunts being Cadwell & Blyton as they are closest.
Ok. Interesting that you are able to run so much camber with only those parts. Out of interest, with your current setup have you checked what the roll-centre of your car currently sits at? I've read that with the McPherson being lowered roll centre is negatively affected and stiffer springs and more camber is being used to counter instead of addressing the geometry as far as roll centre is concerned back to OEM.I take your comments onboard and will experiment when we have a proper suspension with camber adjustability. Our basic geo showed a noticeable difference in front camber left to right, but of course we couldn't do anything about that with our current setup so we just had to go with it as is.
@andyiley well roll centre is difficult to explain, I'm only just getting my head around the concept however it is a critical component of suspension geometry and an important part of a suspension system in order to get the best performance from a car setup.
This link explaining RC and COG in detail is worth a read http://www.thecartech.com/subjects/auto_eng2/Roll_...
@Fab32 I have no basis for comparison regarding the M50, but I feel that your findings are correct. In our case we have a fair few mechanical modifications we would like to apply, so mapping the car at this stage will be a waste of resources. Our plan is to add all of the mechanical mods we would like/can afford, then map it at the end to take advantage of all of them.
No doubt people would be scratching their heads if you are running an S50B32 engine in your 328 from what I have read the 328 can be made to be as competent and an S50B30/S50B32 E36 with the right selection of mods, nevermind dropping the Evo engine in it
We are running the tyres that came with the car, which are to say ditch finders. No semi slicks for a while yet, probably not in 2015. Engine/exhaust/suspension/drivetrain modifications all need to be implemented and the car setup properly before we can justify wanting more grip. Not to mention driver skill/experience acquisition
I'm hopeful it will come eventually though.
With regards to brakes, I actually thought that the standard brakes with who knows what pads stood up quite well, so with a change of discs, pads and a bit of extra thermal management I think the standard system can be made to be quite competent. Ok its still a single piston setup so modulation and clamp power wouldn't match 4/6-pot setups, but the bias will remain as designed and mass/ unsprung weight will be advantageous to the common E46 parts bin upgrades imo. Time will tell
I haven't heard of End Tuning before, can you tell me what they charged for the map and was it a full rolling road map or....?
Humour
This link explaining RC and COG in detail is worth a read http://www.thecartech.com/subjects/auto_eng2/Roll_...
@Fab32 I have no basis for comparison regarding the M50, but I feel that your findings are correct. In our case we have a fair few mechanical modifications we would like to apply, so mapping the car at this stage will be a waste of resources. Our plan is to add all of the mechanical mods we would like/can afford, then map it at the end to take advantage of all of them.
No doubt people would be scratching their heads if you are running an S50B32 engine in your 328
from what I have read the 328 can be made to be as competent and an S50B30/S50B32 E36 with the right selection of mods, nevermind dropping the Evo engine in it We are running the tyres that came with the car, which are to say ditch finders. No semi slicks for a while yet, probably not in 2015. Engine/exhaust/suspension/drivetrain modifications all need to be implemented and the car setup properly before we can justify wanting more grip. Not to mention driver skill/experience acquisition
I'm hopeful it will come eventually though.With regards to brakes, I actually thought that the standard brakes with who knows what pads stood up quite well, so with a change of discs, pads and a bit of extra thermal management I think the standard system can be made to be quite competent. Ok its still a single piston setup so modulation and clamp power wouldn't match 4/6-pot setups, but the bias will remain as designed and mass/ unsprung weight will be advantageous to the common E46 parts bin upgrades imo. Time will tell
I haven't heard of End Tuning before, can you tell me what they charged for the map and was it a full rolling road map or....?
Humour
Edited by Humour on Friday 26th December 18:47
Edited by Humour on Friday 26th December 18:53
@Fab32 The car came fully stripped out when we bough it. All that remains internally is the top part of the dash. We were somewhat lucky as someone else went through the trouble to remove the sound deadning which I have seen is a right pig to remove. Result 
Bonnet, boot lid, and windows are still original, but these would be the only other items on a list of lightening mods I would consider as the car is not intended to be a full on racer, so we are most of the way there already.
@McSam, thanks for the info Sam, I have already read many a threads about brake upgrade options e.g. E46, M3, ect. etc. I didn't know however that the E46 328 uses the same calipers with a slightly bigger disc, so this may be worthwhile an upgrade to include with what else is being planned. My view is to go with Bluestuff NDX pads front and rear, source cooling duct plates to replace the dust plate at the front and mate this to the cooling ducts I have installed in place of the fog lights already. This will direct cool air directly into the "inner centre" part of the front disks and allow cool air to move through the disk vanes from the centre out. In addition we are going for the Brass caliper guides and dropping the rubber guide in the process both front and rear. I feel that with these mods the brake system will be significantly improved over what we have now. I like the idea of a slight change of bias to allow us to experiment with removing the ABS for a session to see how this affects things, so I will see if I can get hold of E46 328 front carriers and source E46 328 disks instead. The ideal situation for heat management is thicker discs but that is not an option with the OEM calipers, so we will try what's planned first and go from there.
I can tell you though that we did NOT take it easy on the brakes in our shakedown once we felt the car didn't have any issues reliability wise and found the limit of the brakes within a couple of laps, so I'm confident that we pushed the package to nearing its limit. I managed a 2.59 minute lap on the GT circuit with the ditch finders and standard brakes at +1C air temperature throughout the day, so I'm confident I didn't take it easy on the car.
Braided hoses 6-lines, clutch braided hose and CDV were fitted as a matter of course during the maintenance works, along with Super blue, so the minimum of the basics were done before we hit the track. Without these I wouldn't have felt comfortable pressing on the car.
Hum
Bonnet, boot lid, and windows are still original, but these would be the only other items on a list of lightening mods I would consider as the car is not intended to be a full on racer, so we are most of the way there already.
@McSam, thanks for the info Sam, I have already read many a threads about brake upgrade options e.g. E46, M3, ect. etc. I didn't know however that the E46 328 uses the same calipers with a slightly bigger disc, so this may be worthwhile an upgrade to include with what else is being planned. My view is to go with Bluestuff NDX pads front and rear, source cooling duct plates to replace the dust plate at the front and mate this to the cooling ducts I have installed in place of the fog lights already. This will direct cool air directly into the "inner centre" part of the front disks and allow cool air to move through the disk vanes from the centre out. In addition we are going for the Brass caliper guides and dropping the rubber guide in the process both front and rear. I feel that with these mods the brake system will be significantly improved over what we have now. I like the idea of a slight change of bias to allow us to experiment with removing the ABS for a session to see how this affects things, so I will see if I can get hold of E46 328 front carriers and source E46 328 disks instead. The ideal situation for heat management is thicker discs but that is not an option with the OEM calipers, so we will try what's planned first and go from there.
I can tell you though that we did NOT take it easy on the brakes in our shakedown once we felt the car didn't have any issues reliability wise and found the limit of the brakes within a couple of laps, so I'm confident that we pushed the package to nearing its limit. I managed a 2.59 minute lap on the GT circuit with the ditch finders and standard brakes at +1C air temperature throughout the day, so I'm confident I didn't take it easy on the car.
Braided hoses 6-lines, clutch braided hose and CDV were fitted as a matter of course during the maintenance works, along with Super blue, so the minimum of the basics were done before we hit the track. Without these I wouldn't have felt comfortable pressing on the car.
Hum
@championissmo I have looked into Lexan/plastic windows and would love to have them installed, but we have more immediate things to address first, and with a limited budget the priority on spend right now has to focus on other areas of the car. I'm glad to hear they are being manufactured for E36's though, as it gives us time to source at a later date.
@MarkVWT5 interesting feedback, thanks Mark. Your AP BBK setup budget will more than likely buy our car with all the maintenance carried out thus far, so your budget is way bigger than ours. We bought the car for 1K, already stripped with a single racing seat installed. We have put into it another 1K, mostly on the cooling system overhaul, a couple of Intake mods, camshaft position sensor, new spark plugs, brake lines and all fluids servicing. Brakes are next, then I would like to have the rear end completely taken out and rebuilt along with the LSD and C&P installation. Once this is done we will take stock and double up on the paper rounds (lol) to save up for a mid-range coilover system (PSS9's are out of our budget) to allow us to setup the Geo/Camber/etc. properly.
Mark, do you happen to know the specifics on the amount of toe-out and toe-in front and rear? It would be interesting to know as a guide.
The sharp eared among you will have noticed on the video that the release bearing is on its way out and sounds like we have a cat under the bonnet on every gear change, so a new clutch, ideally a lightened single mass flywheel and a Z3M or similar short shifter all would need buying and fitting as part of one job. I'm guessing we will be another 2K in before we even think about budgeting for semi-slicks........this hobby can get expensive fast
but all work and no play is not healthy either 
so we will see how we get on.
Our saving grace is that one of the three owners is a mechanic with his own shop, so access to a lift, tools and expertise is included free of charge which makes this do-able for us.
Still, allot of work to do so gathering knowledge is very useful to minimise spend on unnecessary bits and pieces.
Humour
@MarkVWT5 interesting feedback, thanks Mark. Your AP BBK setup budget will more than likely buy our car with all the maintenance carried out thus far, so your budget is way bigger than ours. We bought the car for 1K, already stripped with a single racing seat installed. We have put into it another 1K, mostly on the cooling system overhaul, a couple of Intake mods, camshaft position sensor, new spark plugs, brake lines and all fluids servicing. Brakes are next, then I would like to have the rear end completely taken out and rebuilt along with the LSD and C&P installation. Once this is done we will take stock and double up on the paper rounds (lol) to save up for a mid-range coilover system (PSS9's are out of our budget) to allow us to setup the Geo/Camber/etc. properly.
Mark, do you happen to know the specifics on the amount of toe-out and toe-in front and rear? It would be interesting to know as a guide.
The sharp eared among you will have noticed on the video that the release bearing is on its way out and sounds like we have a cat under the bonnet on every gear change, so a new clutch, ideally a lightened single mass flywheel and a Z3M or similar short shifter all would need buying and fitting as part of one job. I'm guessing we will be another 2K in before we even think about budgeting for semi-slicks........this hobby can get expensive fast
but all work and no play is not healthy either so we will see how we get on.Our saving grace is that one of the three owners is a mechanic with his own shop, so access to a lift, tools and expertise is included free of charge which makes this do-able for us.
Still, allot of work to do so gathering knowledge is very useful to minimise spend on unnecessary bits and pieces.
Humour
Edited by Humour on Sunday 28th December 13:04
Edited by Humour on Sunday 28th December 13:07
Andy, presumably to run 245 tyres all around you are running square setup wheels that a wider than standard?
We are using the RC041's RC042's that came with the car. If I recall the fronts are 225's and the rears 235's. Thanks for the tip on the Contis and Eagle F1's though, these are more along the lines of what we might be looking to source second hand as replacements.
We are using the RC041's RC042's that came with the car. If I recall the fronts are 225's and the rears 235's. Thanks for the tip on the Contis and Eagle F1's though, these are more along the lines of what we might be looking to source second hand as replacements.
@Sea Demon, thank for the feedback fella. I agree on all fronts regarding the suspension. The car came with the JOM's fitted which are almost brand new so we thought that it will do for the shakedown and whilst we are upgrading and refreshing various other parts of the car.
The intention is to go HSD Monopro with Nurburgring spec spring rates eventually, or similar setup which allows us to adjust front camber as our basic geo showed that we have a significant difference in front camber left to right which we are unable to adjust with our current setup, but this will have to wait until other areas are addressed first. Given a limited budget, suspension and grippy tyres will have to come last in the development cycle when the rest of the setup is up to the task of utilising such components, including the safety aspects such as a cage and revised seats and harnesses, so for now we have to compromise and deal with the basics of refreshing an old road car's underpinnings first.
Interesting that you are running coils and uprated ARB's though. Can you shed more light on which came first and why you felt the need to add the ARB's? This is an area of much interest for me to try and understand. I have read reports over on the US forums that a decent coilover setup with corrected Roll Centre (the front in particular) negates the need to manage body roll by adding uprated roll bars. With that in mind, do you know what ride height you are running front and rear on your coilover setup and have you looked into your front CoG/Roll Centre/Bump Steer as part of your Geo setup before adding the ARB's?
Regards, Humour
The intention is to go HSD Monopro with Nurburgring spec spring rates eventually, or similar setup which allows us to adjust front camber as our basic geo showed that we have a significant difference in front camber left to right which we are unable to adjust with our current setup, but this will have to wait until other areas are addressed first. Given a limited budget, suspension and grippy tyres will have to come last in the development cycle when the rest of the setup is up to the task of utilising such components, including the safety aspects such as a cage and revised seats and harnesses, so for now we have to compromise and deal with the basics of refreshing an old road car's underpinnings first.
Interesting that you are running coils and uprated ARB's though. Can you shed more light on which came first and why you felt the need to add the ARB's? This is an area of much interest for me to try and understand. I have read reports over on the US forums that a decent coilover setup with corrected Roll Centre (the front in particular) negates the need to manage body roll by adding uprated roll bars. With that in mind, do you know what ride height you are running front and rear on your coilover setup and have you looked into your front CoG/Roll Centre/Bump Steer as part of your Geo setup before adding the ARB's?
Regards, Humour
Edited by Humour on Monday 29th December 11:27
Andy97, there is allot of info online on the subject however every car and its level of prep/components will be different therefore drawing comparisons from what is suitable for some vs others is futile. I wouldn't want to give specifics for geo on this basis even though I have an opinion on where I want to start with ours.
Our car was set to 0degrees toe on the front and the rear was set to the OEM 328 sport geometry. We have no camber adjustment available on our car at present and the ride height is all wrong as is, so I have little to contribute right now other than my understanding of other people's setups. What do you think the geometry setup on yours should be as a starting point?
You have an already track prepped car from what you said in your post? If so presumably then it has the components to get a full geo check/reading and go from there. There are places you can go and have this done professionally if budget allows. Personally I would drive the car first as is and get a feel for it so I can tie the feeling with the car with the readings obtained by a geo check.
Our car was set to 0degrees toe on the front and the rear was set to the OEM 328 sport geometry. We have no camber adjustment available on our car at present and the ride height is all wrong as is, so I have little to contribute right now other than my understanding of other people's setups. What do you think the geometry setup on yours should be as a starting point?
You have an already track prepped car from what you said in your post? If so presumably then it has the components to get a full geo check/reading and go from there. There are places you can go and have this done professionally if budget allows. Personally I would drive the car first as is and get a feel for it so I can tie the feeling with the car with the readings obtained by a geo check.
Edited by Humour on Sunday 25th January 22:29
Andy97, as others have pointed out already a good starting point will be 4-deg negative camber on front axle, 2-deg negative on the rear axle. Zero toe front and rear, or 0.10 degrees toe in at the rear (not clever enough to express in minutes lol).
Ride height wise, I've been taking some ideas from the yank forums where some people do serious racing in these cars. The general consensus amongst those is 320mm up front when measured from the wheel arch centre (the centre of the curve following the shape of the wheel) to the wheel centre (centre bore hole) with the car on the ground, and anywhere from 300-310mm on the rear, again measured the same way.
After the above is set and tracked, I would look to check the roll centre of the car to see if any adjustment is required to complete the setup. The only thing left then is adjusting the shock stiffness to work with your springs and the track in question.
That's what I'm planning to do with ours, when we eventually buy the suspension setup and camber arms/top mounts to allow us to adjust the geo in that way. For now we will be hillbillying it about and having "fun" whilst refreshing all the bushes and the components that make up the drivetrain/suspension a bit at a time.
One thing I personally would be looking to do is check the health of the car top to bottom. There is little point spending money on geo if you have tired bushes, ball joints, arms, etc. Any alignment that is done with iffy/worn parts in place can be a waste of time and resources. So I would bear than in mind first and foremost.
Humour
Ride height wise, I've been taking some ideas from the yank forums where some people do serious racing in these cars. The general consensus amongst those is 320mm up front when measured from the wheel arch centre (the centre of the curve following the shape of the wheel) to the wheel centre (centre bore hole) with the car on the ground, and anywhere from 300-310mm on the rear, again measured the same way.
After the above is set and tracked, I would look to check the roll centre of the car to see if any adjustment is required to complete the setup. The only thing left then is adjusting the shock stiffness to work with your springs and the track in question.
That's what I'm planning to do with ours, when we eventually buy the suspension setup and camber arms/top mounts to allow us to adjust the geo in that way. For now we will be hillbillying it about and having "fun" whilst refreshing all the bushes and the components that make up the drivetrain/suspension a bit at a time.
One thing I personally would be looking to do is check the health of the car top to bottom. There is little point spending money on geo if you have tired bushes, ball joints, arms, etc. Any alignment that is done with iffy/worn parts in place can be a waste of time and resources. So I would bear than in mind first and foremost.
Humour
Edited by Humour on Monday 26th January 18:11
Hey guys. Good suggestion hamster69 about a PH track day
We are going to Bedford on March 30th for our second shakedown now that we have addressed a few areas on the car. Still sooooo much to do however perhaps later on in the summer when everyone has lined their ducks up.......
I agree in principle about tyres, but I also believe that putting on sticky tyres can also mask issues with the setup which is why we are staying on the ditch finders for the foreseeable future. Our plan is to improve the setup on low grip and thus low(ish) corner speeds and only move towards more grip once the car is in a state able to take advantage of this on the limit whilst staying predictable. In our estimations we are still a year away from being there judging by the pace and cost of prep thus far.
Humour
We are going to Bedford on March 30th for our second shakedown now that we have addressed a few areas on the car. Still sooooo much to do however
perhaps later on in the summer when everyone has lined their ducks up.......I agree in principle about tyres, but I also believe that putting on sticky tyres can also mask issues with the setup which is why we are staying on the ditch finders for the foreseeable future. Our plan is to improve the setup on low grip and thus low(ish) corner speeds and only move towards more grip once the car is in a state able to take advantage of this on the limit whilst staying predictable. In our estimations we are still a year away from being there judging by the pace and cost of prep thus far.
Humour
Thanks for the feedback Cmoose. I have done alot of reading on coils and I agree it is definitely a key component of the suspension and geometry system to get right. It's on the list of things to do
I have read though that the GAZ coils are under damped and that feedback has come through different forums regarding different cars, I have seen at least three different reports mentioning the same limitation, amongst others that are claiming the springs are too soft for track (as supplied). I appreciate that you can change the latter to your own spec, which is great, however if the shocks are at their limits, going stiffer with the springs may (if the reports are accurate about the shocks capacity) not necessarily yield the best results.
On the topic of coils, initial consideration was HSD Monopro, however with further research done, we are realising that a best/sufficiently capable long term solution can only be had above the £1.6K mark, so now we are considering KW Clubsport or AST 5000 series, both of which tip the 2K mark with adjustable top mounts added. The piggy bank needs some heavy investment this year lol
A little update following our second shakedown on March 30th, prior to the day we managed to renew the brakes, fitted Brembo Hi Carbon disks front and rear and EBC Blue NDX pads front and rear, changed the rubber sliders to brass and stainless slider pins, added to this we fitted front cooling duct plates and joined up ducting to the intakes I had previously prepared in place of the fog lights. Brakes revision complete, we were ready to go.
We had no brake issues all day and to say we tried to cook the brakes was an understatement We immediately managed to do 10 hot lap stints (previously only 3-4 before having to cool off), and that continued throughout the day. Looking back each driver was doing around 40-45 minute sessions on track. No hint of brake fade, judder, or lack of feel and interestingly the front tyres were not heating up as much as they did previously on a much colder day. Also noticeably the front brakes were cooler than the rears when checked immediately after a session. Overall, the car did double the mileage of the previous attempt and we burned through two full tanks of fuel in one day, compared to one on the first shakedown. Very happy with the track time we got out of the day.
We had an E92 M3 and a Z4M both cook their brakes in front of us and nearly hit the grass at the hairpin on the long back straight on Bedford GT. Tbh it was their fault as they were intent on not allowing us past as we creeped up to them on track. I assume because there was no contest on the straights, they thought they were quicker, so didn't feel the need to make way, eventually they did anyway as their brakes had had enough and we waved as we drive past online hehe. Suffice it to say in the pits they were looking at us rather oddly and another chap with an E46 M3 came up to ask us if our car was an M3
I guess this is a very good example for "fit for purpose" as our car never felt like it was having a hard time throughout the day and the only reason we had to stop after 10 laps is due to the drivers getting tired lol.
The bloody cam cover gasket has started to leak again from the same place though, which is disappointing as I changed it and the associated rubber bolt seals during the brake system refresh. I think either the bolts have un-torqued or we have a cracked cam cover, since we used a Victor Reinz gasket and BMW OEM bolt/stud seals. I have to re-investigate that area again, but I hope it will not be a recurring issue after every track day
Humour
I have read though that the GAZ coils are under damped and that feedback has come through different forums regarding different cars, I have seen at least three different reports mentioning the same limitation, amongst others that are claiming the springs are too soft for track (as supplied). I appreciate that you can change the latter to your own spec, which is great, however if the shocks are at their limits, going stiffer with the springs may (if the reports are accurate about the shocks capacity) not necessarily yield the best results.
On the topic of coils, initial consideration was HSD Monopro, however with further research done, we are realising that a best/sufficiently capable long term solution can only be had above the £1.6K mark, so now we are considering KW Clubsport or AST 5000 series, both of which tip the 2K mark with adjustable top mounts added. The piggy bank needs some heavy investment this year lol
A little update following our second shakedown on March 30th, prior to the day we managed to renew the brakes, fitted Brembo Hi Carbon disks front and rear and EBC Blue NDX pads front and rear, changed the rubber sliders to brass and stainless slider pins, added to this we fitted front cooling duct plates and joined up ducting to the intakes I had previously prepared in place of the fog lights. Brakes revision complete, we were ready to go.
We had no brake issues all day and to say we tried to cook the brakes was an understatement
We immediately managed to do 10 hot lap stints (previously only 3-4 before having to cool off), and that continued throughout the day. Looking back each driver was doing around 40-45 minute sessions on track. No hint of brake fade, judder, or lack of feel and interestingly the front tyres were not heating up as much as they did previously on a much colder day. Also noticeably the front brakes were cooler than the rears when checked immediately after a session. Overall, the car did double the mileage of the previous attempt and we burned through two full tanks of fuel in one day, compared to one on the first shakedown. Very happy with the track time we got out of the day.We had an E92 M3 and a Z4M both cook their brakes in front of us and nearly hit the grass at the hairpin on the long back straight on Bedford GT. Tbh it was their fault as they were intent on not allowing us past as we creeped up to them on track. I assume because there was no contest on the straights, they thought they were quicker, so didn't feel the need to make way, eventually they did anyway as their brakes had had enough and we waved as we drive past online hehe. Suffice it to say in the pits they were looking at us rather oddly and another chap with an E46 M3 came up to ask us if our car was an M3
I guess this is a very good example for "fit for purpose" as our car never felt like it was having a hard time throughout the day and the only reason we had to stop after 10 laps is due to the drivers getting tired lol.
The bloody cam cover gasket has started to leak again from the same place though, which is disappointing as I changed it and the associated rubber bolt seals during the brake system refresh. I think either the bolts have un-torqued or we have a cracked cam cover, since we used a Victor Reinz gasket and BMW OEM bolt/stud seals. I have to re-investigate that area again, but I hope it will not be a recurring issue after every track day
Humour
Edited by Humour on Wednesday 8th April 21:54
Edited by Humour on Wednesday 8th April 22:02
Hi Sam, looking at the picture the plates are the exact same one's we fitted. We didn't buy through Bimmerworld though, their delivery charges are extortionate. Also we only bought the plates, nothing else. The other parts we bought locally, or made up (e.g. the air intakes in the fog light locations). I'll see if I can dig up the supplier and post back, I remember he is an obscure one though.
@Cmoose, thanks for the confirmation. I agree about the value for money. The dampers is one area I'm not certain I want to compromise too much on though. In my mind springs are available from many places and custom wound springs are not too expensive to have made, so when buying coilovers you pay for the dampers essentially. In which case if I'm having to drop a grand out of my wallet I prefer to get parts that are matched and of good quality to hopefully translate into performance with consistency and longevity, even if it means throwing another 500+ quid in the mix. Don't get me wrong, I'm not made of money and I have to sacrifice heavily in other areas, although it does help to co-own the car with a mate, so his wallet will be taking a heavy hit too when we get to the suspension lol.
@Andyiley, thanks for the feedback Andy, I had previously spotted the Spax, but couldn't find any meaningful feedback. Can you please shed some light on the spring rates you are running? Other things of interest are whether front or rear adjustments are even left to right (e.g. Front +4 clicks from Soft left plus right) and generally some feedback on your setup you have settled on after tinkering I read some info on HSD's or BC Racing's where some poor guy had to have +8 clicks and +12 clicks on his shocks on the front axle just to get the same resistance from the dampers across the axle, which is no bueno and he wasn't a happy bunny (to be expected).
It's definitely a lottery out there from what I have read thus far, so the old rule of measure (research in this case) 15 times and cut once is very much applicable on the subject of suspension imo.......
On a different note, I'm just back from Shrewsbury today having collected a new 6 puck ceramic clutch plate and an M3 evo Sachs pressure plate and release bearing (the latter I think is shot) as our clutch and release bearing are way past their best, the cat inside the gearbox is getting louder and probably looking for a way out, hehe. Hopefully a new lightweight solid flywheel will soon be on order also, so the rear end is being pushed back to be preceeded by the clutch, flywheel and short shifter works before we look towards another day out on track
If we are lucky we may be ready for a day out near the end of May. I will check back to see what you guys are doing in the coming month or two once we are ready because it would be cool to organise a common day out and meet you guys as well as other E36's on a day out
Humour
@Cmoose, thanks for the confirmation. I agree about the value for money. The dampers is one area I'm not certain I want to compromise too much on though. In my mind springs are available from many places and custom wound springs are not too expensive to have made, so when buying coilovers you pay for the dampers essentially. In which case if I'm having to drop a grand out of my wallet I prefer to get parts that are matched and of good quality to hopefully translate into performance with consistency and longevity, even if it means throwing another 500+ quid in the mix. Don't get me wrong, I'm not made of money and I have to sacrifice heavily in other areas, although it does help to co-own the car with a mate, so his wallet will be taking a heavy hit too when we get to the suspension lol.
@Andyiley, thanks for the feedback Andy, I had previously spotted the Spax, but couldn't find any meaningful feedback. Can you please shed some light on the spring rates you are running? Other things of interest are whether front or rear adjustments are even left to right (e.g. Front +4 clicks from Soft left plus right) and generally some feedback on your setup you have settled on after tinkering
I read some info on HSD's or BC Racing's where some poor guy had to have +8 clicks and +12 clicks on his shocks on the front axle just to get the same resistance from the dampers across the axle, which is no bueno and he wasn't a happy bunny (to be expected).It's definitely a lottery out there from what I have read thus far, so the old rule of measure (research in this case) 15 times and cut once is very much applicable on the subject of suspension imo.......
On a different note, I'm just back from Shrewsbury today having collected a new 6 puck ceramic clutch plate and an M3 evo Sachs pressure plate and release bearing (the latter I think is shot) as our clutch and release bearing are way past their best, the cat inside the gearbox is getting louder and probably looking for a way out, hehe. Hopefully a new lightweight solid flywheel will soon be on order also, so the rear end is being pushed back to be preceeded by the clutch, flywheel and short shifter works before we look towards another day out on track
If we are lucky we may be ready for a day out near the end of May. I will check back to see what you guys are doing in the coming month or two once we are ready because it would be cool to organise a common day out and meet you guys as well as other E36's on a day out
Humour
Edited by Humour on Saturday 11th April 19:20
Thanks for the feedback Andy. I will review the RSX series once again once we get to a position to invest in the suspension setup.
Out of curiosity, what width wheels are you running to run 245 wide tyres? Also what wheels specifically are you using?
@McSam, sam I dug out the supplier re; the cooling plates, Gruvenparts I spoke to a chap called Paul (MD of the company iirc). He did his best to minimise on the shipping charges, so definitely a cheaper route than the other place
Humour
Out of curiosity, what width wheels are you running to run 245 wide tyres? Also what wheels specifically are you using?
@McSam, sam I dug out the supplier re; the cooling plates, Gruvenparts I spoke to a chap called Paul (MD of the company iirc). He did his best to minimise on the shipping charges, so definitely a cheaper route than the other place
Humour
iguana said:
Yip rears do get v hot & just don't cool much on cool down laps vs fronts, I roughly wear 2x rear sets pads to 1 front, I was eying up a Porsche type idea of a scoop on the wishbone, type idea, maybe utilising a coke bottle cut in half & cable ties or a small pies of guttering etc, but maybe a Gt3 arm scoop coidl be adapted, they are cheap enough, link of some fitted here
& quote from Das Chin-
"The 4 ducts cost £20 all in from the Tonbridge Porsche opc. I could not believe how cheap they were. I thought everyone was at least £50 in there!!
997 GT3 Front Ducts - £2.18 each plus vat
997.341.483.92 (part number)
997.341.484.92
997 Rears - £6.30 each plus vat
997.331.487.92
997.331.488.92"
Thanks Iguana, looks possibly like a plausible solution for the rears.& quote from Das Chin-
"The 4 ducts cost £20 all in from the Tonbridge Porsche opc. I could not believe how cheap they were. I thought everyone was at least £50 in there!!
997 GT3 Front Ducts - £2.18 each plus vat
997.341.483.92 (part number)
997.341.484.92
997 Rears - £6.30 each plus vat
997.331.487.92
997.331.488.92"
I had another PH'er driving an S1 K20 Elise provide me with a link to an all around lower tech solution from the Honda 2K forums in the US. Source which also looks doable, if a suitable mounting point can be found on the E36 rear end. Got to love the DIY spirit of those guys
I think the rears don't need much, but some airflow will make a difference as opposed to none.
We are currently running EBC Blue NDX pads as a 'in budget' starting point, to be followed by PF Z series when finished with. Now with the front cooling in place, it was very evident that the cooling efficiency front to rear was massively different. On our first go with standard everything, our tyre pressures were going up by 7psi both front and rear. After fitting the front cooling solution, the fronts only went up by 2-3psi where as the rears were still up by 7psi (starting at 28psi prior to a run and ending up at 35+psi immediately following a run). It became evident after our comparison before and after that the amount of heat retained by the brakes makes a substantial difference to tyre pressures as well, so the effect of cooling extends not only to efficiency and pad life, but also tyre pressures and possibly tyre wear.
In my mind this is worthwhile doing even if performance isn't gained, as it will eventually reflect on spend against consumables.
Humour
P.S. Sam, I'm the guy who posted on your latest Bedford you tube vids btw. Mum having a go was class!!!
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff