Enforceable?

[BrabusMog]

Never had a problem with this before from employees but one of our best guys is kicking up a bit of a stink and I need to know what we can do...

We ask that everyone works an additional 30 mins per day in January and February as it is our busiest period for which they are paid overtime at time and a quarter. This is company wide, including finance and HR depts who help out answering email enquiries sent to our sales team in this time. One of my guys asked last week to not do this, which I agreed to as I thought it was just for one night. He has just emailed me saying he will no longer be doing the overtime and just working his normal hours.

Am I right in thinking that as his contract is a bit ambiguously worded ("You may be required to work additional hours, for which you will be paid, when the business requires it") that we can't really do anything? I do not like making threats, especially when I don't know the legal position, and he is one of the best guys in my team so I would like to keep him happy but I can imagine it's going to cause resentment amongst other staff who are being "forced" to work the additional 30 mins when he swans off at 17.30.

I am going to sit him down for a chat to explain why we ask everyone to do this in the morning but he knows he's well thought of by myself and other management and I think he may mention something along the lines of how much additional work he does/revenue he generates and he should be exempt from the additional 30 mins.

Apologies for any typos, on the train!

[BrabusMog]

NDA said:

From my own experience as an employer, I'd say this guy has just written himself out of a future with the company. Whilst this would be illegal to acknowledge or say to him, it's how it is in the world of grown ups!

There is no way this was the first thing I thought when I got his email...

Thanks for your response, it's what I was hoping for - I didn't think I was being unreasonable.

[BrabusMog]

Cheers for the replies guys.

I will be having an informal chat over lunch with him tomorrow. He's a really good worker and we are also quite friendly and usually go for a few beers once a week together as well.

He was quite resentful of doing the extra hours last year, I'm pretty sure part of the reason is that we're "making" him work the hours and it's pissing him off, he can be a bit alpha male/territorial sometimes.

To answer other questions:

- He lives a 5 minutes walk from the office and is 28/29, no kids and no responsibilites apart from rent on his flat so it's no child/transport issues for working an extra 30 mins.

- I've already said to him just to take 30 mins less lunch (he gets an hour) if he wants to leave "on time" but he either goes to the gym/home/pub every lunch and likes his hour away.

I don't want him to go, I am a bit annoyed at his attitude, hopefully I can resolve this tomorrow without having to take it any further.

[BrabusMog]

He's on commission and, having already hit his target for the month a week ago, he is now on double what he would usually earn, per unit. As such, even if he didn't care about the company and its success, you'd think he'd want to be doing that extra bit of work to really increase his own pay packet. You can't fault his drive, he's always on time, always doing more than he needs to, it's just this additional 30 mins that seems to be a sticking point.

[BrabusMog]

I can see your point re lunch but we'd already planned to go today and I thought it might be a bit better to have a chat then instead of calling him into one of the offices.

With regards to taxation, I hadn't thought about that, it could be a factor I guess - he is quite meticulous when it comes to planning his finances from what I know of him.

The simple fact of the matter is that we like to turn queries around within 24 hours whilst keeping responses as high-quality as possible, therefore we just ask everyone to do an additional 30 mins of emails at the end of the day for these 2 months. In fact, it got quieter towards the middle of Feb last year so we stopped asking people to do it unless they volunteered. All the team have hit their sales target and earned a decent level of commission for the last 12 months as it is, this guy just pushes on a bit more usually as his conversion rates are about 15-20% higher than anyone else.

I'm starting to think he might be thinking about leaving.

[BrabusMog]

We've previously offered him a supervisory role within another department and laid out a sort of career path for him but he didn't want to take it as he would lose money in commission.

It turns out he's got a new missus which he hadn't told anyone about and she works nights quite a few times a week - he drops her off and she'd be late if he didn't do it Call me cynical but I think that's a load of ste and that all he just simply can't be arsed to work the extra 30 mins.

It's a bit of a rock and a hard place scenario, I don't want to lose him/anger him but I also don't want someone to not pull their weight regardless of how well they perceive themselves to do for the company. I told him I expect him to do the extra half an hour, preferably at the end of the day til 18.00 but if he really couldn't manage that then either before work or out of his lunch.

MotorcyclesFish said:

Some people value a high degree of work/life separation and resent extension of working time. I'm one of them.

I sort of sympathise with him but it is something everyone is asked to do and they get various benefits that none of our competitors would ever offer if they were to work for them. If it was a day here or there it would be tolerable but it's not fair on the other people who give up the extra half an hour, he just sees it as beneath him in my opinion. And we don't keep it a secret, everyone is informed what is expected of them at interview stage.

Edited by BrabusMog on Friday 25th January 09:18

[BrabusMog]

icetea said:

You're the boss... you need to work a solution that suits you. Do something similar to what MotorcyclesFish has suggested. Tell people they won't be required to work the extra 30 minutes if they hit all their targets.

It gives your best earner an excuse not to do it, while not making it look like you're giving in. If anyone else can hit these targets then let them have the time off also - it'll be a good problem to have if nobody ends up working those 30 mins and you need to take on a part time hire to do it...

The whole point is that we have a massive influx of business in January and February and to manage the volume the best solution is to have staff work an additional 30 mins. This has been happening for the last 6 years - it's not a new thing. Most people don't mind, some sales people actually do more overtime unpaid during this period to make additional sales once they hit targets. I am not changing our operation to suit one person.

[BrabusMog]

icetea said:

BrabusMog said:

I am not changing our operation to suit one person.

Well theres your answer then - tell him to work the 30 minutes or clear his desk out.

The fact this thread exists makes it pretty obvious you don't want to do that though...

You're quite right, I don't want to. However, if he walks off at 17.30 tonight then I will be getting HR involved and head down a disciplinary route.

[BrabusMog]

I can't really make this much clearer.

When we hire staff, we tell them that in January and February the will have to do 30 mins a night overtime. This is not exclusive to our company within the industry, it's the busiest time of the year. Everyone else is fine to do it, the overtime is paid and if they need the odd night here or there to slip off at their usual time we won't stop that. They get paid overtime and the opportunity to make more commission, most level-headed people see this as a good oppportunity.

I've just had an email saying that he's off at 17.30, not amused.

[BrabusMog]

We work in a very niche sector of the travel industry - Jan/Feb is the busiest time for people planning/booking their holidays for the year and as the product we sell is limited they like to get in quick tonensure they get the departure dates they want.

I've been working from home so far this week due to illness and have been told he left at 1730 last night. So we'll now be speaking with HR and starting with an official verbal warring.

[BrabusMog]

Sorry, I wasnt clear - what I meant was that we will speak to HR to find out how to go down the disciplinary route. This isnt something I have no experience with, as you can tell. Our HR dept are very "by the book", they will do it the correct way, I just presumed that a verbal warning will be the outcome.

[BrabusMog]

Pothole said:

singlecoil said:

Pothole said:

singlecoil said:

Pothole said:

NDA said:

From my own experience as an employer, I'd say this guy has just written himself out of a future with the company. Whilst this would be illegal to acknowledge or say to him, it's how it is in the world of grown ups!

Very grown up, breaking the law. You must be very proud.

What he said may be illegal, but it is the way things happen in many employment situations.

You ought to know me better than to think I am so naive as to think otherwise.

I didn't think you were that naive, but I was slightly surprised at your response to NDA, it seemed somewhat overstated, as if you were grinding an unseen axe.

It's a hateful attitude, and not helpful to business in my opinion, but then nor is a vaguely-worded expectation in a contract of employment. It's the kind of management ineptitude that winds me up!

Whilst it is vaguely worded in his contract, it couldn't be made clearer when they are interviewed that the company expects this in Jan/Feb but they will get paid for it.

icetea - whilst I understand what you are saying, I am keen to avoid anyone thinking they may wish to try it on next year. So, with this in mind, we are going down the disciplinary route.

[BrabusMog]

andy-xr said:

I think hes given you a pretty valid reason, whether or not you believe it, you're asking him to change plans daily for two months. You'd not get the same for people with childcare arrangements I guess? If the work is fairly menial, consider knocking it out to an outsourced admin company or Amazon Mechanical Turk, give the rest of the staff the same time off and save some money in the wage bill?

ETA, this has been bugging me so I've come back to it

OP - where's your focus? It sounds like it's on you and your company. I'm not seeing where you're putting yourself in the shoes of your staff, how do you know this guys's saying what others are thinking?

It sounds to me as though he's telling you time with his family vs (rough guess) £60/month net is more important to him, and you're not only questioning it, you're considering hauling him over the coals on it.

The COO of Facebook is fairly publicly OK saying that she leaves her office at 5.30. I'm guessing she doesnt stop work at 5.30, what with all the important calls and stuff COO's do. So translate that to your business - how can you empower your staff and be a leader, instead of the boss you appear to be? I'm sure you're a great boss, but are you holding your business back?

If the wage bill for this 2 month charade is what, £5k, where else can you get a better return on that money? How can you make your people more productive? It doesnt seem that an extra £100 a month gross is doing it for at least 1 of them

How much remote access solution can you get for £5k and let everyone log in when they get home, do their admin etc? Let them be more productive. And thank the guy for bringing it to your attention, I'll bet money that he'll work more and harder, because he's being allowed and encouraged to, not told to with a disciplinary

Edited by andy-xr on Tuesday 29th January 22:50

I didn't see this earlier, apologies for not replying.

We tell people when they join the company that they are expected to work an additional 30 mins (paid) in January and February as this is our busiest period. It's not a big ask and everyone else can manage to work around it. I should also add that at any other time of the year we are flexible in terms of leaving early/starting late and he quite often takes advantage of this, which of course he is entitled to do so.

It's not a question of him being satisfied with the extra money, the business needs the additional work doing and we've offered start early/take 30mins less lunch - all of which he can't do, apparently.

People already have remote access and are welcome to do the 30 mins from home if they really have to but we do prefer people to do it in the office.

Without wanting to sound harsh, whilst he generates the most revenue for the business, he is not as irreplacable as he seems to think he is. The problem we have is that, as a specialist company, we need people who can sell and also have a lot of knowledge. He has both and it takes about 3-4 months for most people to get up to speed and start selling at anywhere near the rates he does. I can't see another company paying him such a high basic salary as we do, which is a reward we have given him for excellent year-on-year performance.

I just want to make it clear that I haven't marked his card, so to speak, I am just extremely disappointed that he cannot pull his weight like the rest of the team do. He is very well treated, well paid, gets at least one free holiday a year (usually 2 or 3) and our office is usually a really nice place to be. We won't be managing him out or anything like that and I can't see his sales decreasing as he has a pretty decent lifestyle off the commission he earns on top of his basic.

[BrabusMog]

Yes, we do notice a difference, it's why we ask the staff to do it.

[BrabusMog]

Pothole said:

Breadvan72 said:

That's a management judgment for the OP's company, which we must assume knows its own business. At present, the management judgment is that a collective effort by all for an extra half hour is worthwhile. One worker object to joining in this. That need not be a basis for a change of management judgment.

Of course it is. In my experience this type of thing is often left in place long after its usefulness has been disproven however. I was just wondering, not advocating a restructure!

Well said, Breadvan. I didn't want to be rude to people offering advice on how we operate but rest assured, this is a tried and tested method that is being questioned for the first (and hopefully last) time.

[BrabusMog]

Haha, apologies for not providing the closure and now I can't provide any as I dropped the matter when I moved to a new company!