Interested in your thoughts or advice...
Discussion
Hi Guys. I don’t post on here very often and tend to just browse, but after reading some of the threads on here recently regarding University, I’d be interested to read some of your views, and perhaps advice with regards to the position I find myself in at the moment.
I graduated in Automotive Design from Swansea Metropolitan in 2011, it was a BSc with Honours and I obtained a 2:2 Grade. I was very disappointed with this, as I worked hard throughout (I’m not the drinking/partying type). Although I was very proud of my Final Project, which can be found here, and amounted to quite a sizeable chunk of the degree grade, Design is a subjective thing and the Tutors failed to agree with the reasoning behind my project.
While going through college, and then my degree, I held down a good part time job in retail, working weekends and other free time such as holidays. This helped me to support myself with regards to paying rent and keeping a car on the road, with the added bonus that I mostly enjoyed it and worked with some great people.
Disappointed with my degree grade, I resigned myself to continuing with the retail job, taking as many hours as they would give me, and started looking for something full time.
Fortunately I wasn’t looking for long, as while my model was at the University exhibition, it was spotted by guys from a company that specialised in making models and concepts for a variety of companies, but mainly car manufacturers. While I was in University, I always wanted to design cars, but when I got to make a model of my own design, I really enjoyed that aspect as well and felt that it was something I was good at.
We got in touch and I was asked if I would be interested in going to work for them temporarily over the summer, as they had a lot of work on. I jumped at the chance, and went for it. As it was a temporary thing, I also kept on with my retail job, so I was working in the Midlands Monday to Friday, staying in a hotel, and would drive back to South Wales late Friday night, to work in the shop over the weekend, and then drive back up to the Midlands late Sunday night, ready for Monday morning.
I enjoyed the experience and they seemed happy with my work ethic and capabilities, and about a month after the temp work they got back in touch with me to offer me a permanent full time contract. To say I was pleased was an understatement!
So by September ’11 I found myself living in the Midlands and starting my first proper full time job, and in the Car Industry as well. I loved it, I worked with some great people and built up my model making skills. I got to work on a variety of things, Astons, Bentleys, Jags, Land Rovers and loads of other stuff. The pay was also very good.
Things did take a bad turn for me around this time last year, I became really ill, and lost so much weight while waiting to our wonderful NHS to get there arses in gear that it got to a point that I was within a week or two of death (later told this by a doctor). I was diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease. I was out of work for around 2 months, but the company were great and very supportive.
I was back in work by the middle of August, and everything was largely back to reality, aside from needing a day off every few weeks for Remicade infusions at the hospital. I was lucky in that the condition did not effect me in work, and I was back working on some great projects.
Unfortunately, my luck was to strike again. The company started to go through a rough patch and needed to cut back, and in October 2012, myself along with a few others were made redundant. I was gutted.
I moved back to Wales to live with my parents again, and within a few weeks managed to get back in to the retail job that I was doing before, only this time it was a temporary thing over Christmas, although they did say if things looked ok they may be able to keep me on.
I completed the temporary contract, and they kept me on an extra week until everything went tits up and the company went into administration.
As of then, January 2013, I have been out of work. Since then I’ve been looking for stuff in industry, and also out of it here in Wales, and it is driving me mad.
One company in the industry, offered my a weekend’s work paid with the possibility of something longer on offer. I felt I had done well, and they got back to me to say that I had done well, but apparently I lacked the previous experience they wanted for someone longer term. I eventually found out they were short a few people that particular weekend and needed someone quickly to cover the hours and get the project done.
Industry wise I keep getting the usual rejections for not having enough experience. I also cant get onto most Car Manufacturer Grad Schemes because of my poor degree. JLR accept people with 2:2s, so I applied there for the Graduate Modeller role, my portfolio got through, but I failed the ridiculous psychometric tests, which given I had a bit more experience than a graduate, grated slightly. I’m waiting for it to open again this year to give it another shot.
I also lost out on another job to an ex colleague who wasn’t exactly truthful about his prior experience, and then there is the plethora of recruitment consultants who promise much and deliver nothing.
I’ve also spent some time trying to promote myself. I managed to get my model into a couple of magazines and online articles, and I’ve been asked about putting it on show at a car show near the Humber Bridge in August.
Outside of industry, back home, is just as difficult. I’ve submitted countless applications and CVs. I have changed my CV several times, and always try to tailor to whatever I am applying for. I’ve applied for anything from shelf stacking, admin work, and even washing cars.
I have had 1 interview. It was for a Service Advisor job at a car dealership, the guy seemed to love my CV and even said “We had to get you in just to see if you were real.” The interview actually went really well, and I down to the last 2 and had a second interview, with a guy higher up in the business. That one went well too.
I didn’t get it however, he told me “I think you would do well here, but I can probably bet no-one that works here has a degree, and can do the stuff that you can, and I’d be worried you’d jump ship as soon as something you really want comes along”. He even told me not to give up on the industry stuff yet.
So I’m starting to feel really stuck. I can’t get a job in the industry because, although I’ve got more experience than the average graduate, it’s still not enough. I also can’t get a job outside the industry seemingly because of the stuff I have done, things I’m really proud that I’ve achieved.
I’ve reached the point now where I’m considering removing the Degree and the Model Making job off my CV, because I really need a job. I’m not currently on the dole, my outgoings are really small right now, so I’m living on my savings, my parents help me out here and there, and I’ve started selling things I don’t need, I’d sooner sell things than face the shame of joining the dole queue, but it wont last forever.
I’m also ashamed to admit I’m quite jealous of friends who didn’t bother with Uni, and are happy in full time jobs. It makes me wonder sometimes whether I should have bothered.
I know there are many in the world who have worse problems than I do, but it’s getting me really down and wondering what I’ve done to deserve this?
Apologies for the long thread guys. It was actually quite a good feeling to write.
Cheers,
Ben
I graduated in Automotive Design from Swansea Metropolitan in 2011, it was a BSc with Honours and I obtained a 2:2 Grade. I was very disappointed with this, as I worked hard throughout (I’m not the drinking/partying type). Although I was very proud of my Final Project, which can be found here, and amounted to quite a sizeable chunk of the degree grade, Design is a subjective thing and the Tutors failed to agree with the reasoning behind my project.
While going through college, and then my degree, I held down a good part time job in retail, working weekends and other free time such as holidays. This helped me to support myself with regards to paying rent and keeping a car on the road, with the added bonus that I mostly enjoyed it and worked with some great people.
Disappointed with my degree grade, I resigned myself to continuing with the retail job, taking as many hours as they would give me, and started looking for something full time.
Fortunately I wasn’t looking for long, as while my model was at the University exhibition, it was spotted by guys from a company that specialised in making models and concepts for a variety of companies, but mainly car manufacturers. While I was in University, I always wanted to design cars, but when I got to make a model of my own design, I really enjoyed that aspect as well and felt that it was something I was good at.
We got in touch and I was asked if I would be interested in going to work for them temporarily over the summer, as they had a lot of work on. I jumped at the chance, and went for it. As it was a temporary thing, I also kept on with my retail job, so I was working in the Midlands Monday to Friday, staying in a hotel, and would drive back to South Wales late Friday night, to work in the shop over the weekend, and then drive back up to the Midlands late Sunday night, ready for Monday morning.
I enjoyed the experience and they seemed happy with my work ethic and capabilities, and about a month after the temp work they got back in touch with me to offer me a permanent full time contract. To say I was pleased was an understatement!
So by September ’11 I found myself living in the Midlands and starting my first proper full time job, and in the Car Industry as well. I loved it, I worked with some great people and built up my model making skills. I got to work on a variety of things, Astons, Bentleys, Jags, Land Rovers and loads of other stuff. The pay was also very good.
Things did take a bad turn for me around this time last year, I became really ill, and lost so much weight while waiting to our wonderful NHS to get there arses in gear that it got to a point that I was within a week or two of death (later told this by a doctor). I was diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease. I was out of work for around 2 months, but the company were great and very supportive.
I was back in work by the middle of August, and everything was largely back to reality, aside from needing a day off every few weeks for Remicade infusions at the hospital. I was lucky in that the condition did not effect me in work, and I was back working on some great projects.
Unfortunately, my luck was to strike again. The company started to go through a rough patch and needed to cut back, and in October 2012, myself along with a few others were made redundant. I was gutted.
I moved back to Wales to live with my parents again, and within a few weeks managed to get back in to the retail job that I was doing before, only this time it was a temporary thing over Christmas, although they did say if things looked ok they may be able to keep me on.
I completed the temporary contract, and they kept me on an extra week until everything went tits up and the company went into administration.
As of then, January 2013, I have been out of work. Since then I’ve been looking for stuff in industry, and also out of it here in Wales, and it is driving me mad.
One company in the industry, offered my a weekend’s work paid with the possibility of something longer on offer. I felt I had done well, and they got back to me to say that I had done well, but apparently I lacked the previous experience they wanted for someone longer term. I eventually found out they were short a few people that particular weekend and needed someone quickly to cover the hours and get the project done.
Industry wise I keep getting the usual rejections for not having enough experience. I also cant get onto most Car Manufacturer Grad Schemes because of my poor degree. JLR accept people with 2:2s, so I applied there for the Graduate Modeller role, my portfolio got through, but I failed the ridiculous psychometric tests, which given I had a bit more experience than a graduate, grated slightly. I’m waiting for it to open again this year to give it another shot.
I also lost out on another job to an ex colleague who wasn’t exactly truthful about his prior experience, and then there is the plethora of recruitment consultants who promise much and deliver nothing.
I’ve also spent some time trying to promote myself. I managed to get my model into a couple of magazines and online articles, and I’ve been asked about putting it on show at a car show near the Humber Bridge in August.
Outside of industry, back home, is just as difficult. I’ve submitted countless applications and CVs. I have changed my CV several times, and always try to tailor to whatever I am applying for. I’ve applied for anything from shelf stacking, admin work, and even washing cars.
I have had 1 interview. It was for a Service Advisor job at a car dealership, the guy seemed to love my CV and even said “We had to get you in just to see if you were real.” The interview actually went really well, and I down to the last 2 and had a second interview, with a guy higher up in the business. That one went well too.
I didn’t get it however, he told me “I think you would do well here, but I can probably bet no-one that works here has a degree, and can do the stuff that you can, and I’d be worried you’d jump ship as soon as something you really want comes along”. He even told me not to give up on the industry stuff yet.
So I’m starting to feel really stuck. I can’t get a job in the industry because, although I’ve got more experience than the average graduate, it’s still not enough. I also can’t get a job outside the industry seemingly because of the stuff I have done, things I’m really proud that I’ve achieved.
I’ve reached the point now where I’m considering removing the Degree and the Model Making job off my CV, because I really need a job. I’m not currently on the dole, my outgoings are really small right now, so I’m living on my savings, my parents help me out here and there, and I’ve started selling things I don’t need, I’d sooner sell things than face the shame of joining the dole queue, but it wont last forever.
I’m also ashamed to admit I’m quite jealous of friends who didn’t bother with Uni, and are happy in full time jobs. It makes me wonder sometimes whether I should have bothered.
I know there are many in the world who have worse problems than I do, but it’s getting me really down and wondering what I’ve done to deserve this?
Apologies for the long thread guys. It was actually quite a good feeling to write.
Cheers,
Ben
awooga said:
Thought about taking some time out for travelling? 6 months or so away from things, different pressures, you could still work many countries on a casual basis. Come back with a fresh outlook, some different cv fodder and let the industry pick up a bit. You definitely want to keep in touch with the company that was forced to let you go though.
Travelling is something I had considered early on, along with looking at contract work in the likes of Germany. However I have to go to the hospital for Remicade infusions every 8 weeks, together with the possibility of needing other treatments, and the cost of travelling puts me off going abroad for extended periods.Chim said:
Shheeeesh that was dull, gave in half way. Any chance of posting an abridged version
Sorry, wasn't intending to be that long. I started and kept going.Sucked at Degree, but managed to get job in industry.
Made redundant.
Out of work for 6 months
Can't get back into industry, and struggling to get any job.
Wondering if uni was waste of time, and whether to remove degree and industry job off CV, to give me a better chance at getting any job.
Better?
Edited by BenRichards89 on Thursday 18th July 20:32
Sharted said:
Get yourself signed on the dole.
Not for the giro but to get your NI stamp paid, you might need this in about 40 years time when you want a bit of state pension.
In the meantime, don't give up. Your doing some of the right things just do more and get your name known, you're in a really good position - you have knowledge, experience, qualifications and most of all know what you want to do.
How many muppets are out there with a generic degree and no idea what to do with it?
Thanks for the heads up, I must admit I didn't know that, I guess I should.Not for the giro but to get your NI stamp paid, you might need this in about 40 years time when you want a bit of state pension.
In the meantime, don't give up. Your doing some of the right things just do more and get your name known, you're in a really good position - you have knowledge, experience, qualifications and most of all know what you want to do.
How many muppets are out there with a generic degree and no idea what to do with it?
I know there are genuine people who are on the dole, but there is a stereotype, and I don't want to be seen as a scummy scrounger.
Chim said:
Much better a degree is never a waste of time, no one said that you only have to have one CV. It amazes me that people will blindly send out the same standard CV for every job they apply for, read the job advert, have a look at the company that you are applying to join and modify your CV to suit the position and the job.
Just don't go nuts claiming skills that you have not got the first clue about.
I'm just wondering whether it's worth removing them altogether, to give me a better chance at basic jobs. Just worried about what could happen if they found out that I did actually have a degree and the industry experience.
OpulentBob said:
Apologies for my somewhat poor attempt above, now having read your OP.
No, don't take it off. Keep it on there I would say. Always better to have more strings on your bow, even if they are maybe unrelated to what you're going for.
You've got a degree. That shows at least commitment and an ability to learn, apply yourself and succeed - regardless of the grade, your degree is more than I have. I'm in my mid-30's and wish I had a degree. If you get another job within the industry, it's a door-opener. If outside the industry, it's evidence of commitment.
Work is f
king scarce at the moment. For sure. But you've obviously got a bit of intelligence, could you transfer your skills? My industry (civil engineering) can cater for all sorts, people good with aesthetics can be good 3d designers, number-crunchers can reasonably easily transfer to quantity surveying.
I'm sure other people in other industries can offer similar examples tailored to them. A friend was an M+E grad who couldn't get work, transferred to civils, did ten years, then went on to teaching. Horses for courses and all that, but don't give up hope.
Good luck to you.
Oh and (possibly flame suit on) while you're searching, claim what you are entitled to. You'll be paying in to it when you're working, and it's what it's there for. st experience, yes (I've done it, once!) but it really makes you appreciate work when you do finally find it!
My fault to some extent. The OP is a bit long. I posted as I knew people would have good suggestions.No, don't take it off. Keep it on there I would say. Always better to have more strings on your bow, even if they are maybe unrelated to what you're going for.
You've got a degree. That shows at least commitment and an ability to learn, apply yourself and succeed - regardless of the grade, your degree is more than I have. I'm in my mid-30's and wish I had a degree. If you get another job within the industry, it's a door-opener. If outside the industry, it's evidence of commitment.
Work is f
king scarce at the moment. For sure. But you've obviously got a bit of intelligence, could you transfer your skills? My industry (civil engineering) can cater for all sorts, people good with aesthetics can be good 3d designers, number-crunchers can reasonably easily transfer to quantity surveying. I'm sure other people in other industries can offer similar examples tailored to them. A friend was an M+E grad who couldn't get work, transferred to civils, did ten years, then went on to teaching. Horses for courses and all that, but don't give up hope.
Good luck to you.
Oh and (possibly flame suit on) while you're searching, claim what you are entitled to. You'll be paying in to it when you're working, and it's what it's there for. s
t experience, yes (I've done it, once!) but it really makes you appreciate work when you do finally find it!I do look into transferable skills, I keep an eye on other design sectors, graphics etc. I always thought Civils would be a bit too technical for me, but again it's worth looking into so thanks for that
Edited by BenRichards89 on Thursday 18th July 21:01
real4star said:
Have you tried toy companies?
Airfix, scale(x?)tric and such... they must need model makers and designers
That's a really good shout. I've likened some of the projects I worked on in the past to giant airfix kits!Airfix, scale(x?)tric and such... they must need model makers and designers
I don't think I've been concentrating on one thing too much, but peoples suggestions are helping to broaden my search. Some of these things just don't spring to mind.
SpudLink said:
Just finished reading the thread on you build project. You have real talent, as a designer and model builder.
Wish I could offer helpful advice. In the short term, perhaps have a 'downgraded' CV to get your foot in the door at a McJob. And keep putting the real CV out their to those that might offer a job suitable to you talents.
Good luck mate.
Thanks, that means a lot Wish I could offer helpful advice. In the short term, perhaps have a 'downgraded' CV to get your foot in the door at a McJob. And keep putting the real CV out their to those that might offer a job suitable to you talents.
Good luck mate.
That is pretty much the plan at the moment. Get in somewhere to keep me afloat while I continue to look around, while using some of the wage to make another model to showcase some of the skills I've picked up since, as that model is over 2 years old now, and I need something fresh for the portfolio.
OpulentBob said:
Civils is as technical as you make it. Everything you need to know is in a book or design guide somewhere. 
Maybe have a look at matchtech or hays websites (others are available), may even be worth chucking a CV their way - youll probably get a call from an "advisor" but you can then have a chat about transferrable potential.
I don't want to get all "self-help" on you, or tell you stuff you already know, but have you thought about speaking to an employment specialist, see if they can give you hints or constructive criticism on your CV? There are little pointers - like using generic terms for more specialised skills - which might make your CV stay at the top of the pile.
Thanks. I think I do need to have another look at my CV and refresh it. Currently I just feel like the stuff I've done is going against me rather than for meMaybe have a look at matchtech or hays websites (others are available), may even be worth chucking a CV their way - youll probably get a call from an "advisor" but you can then have a chat about transferrable potential.
I don't want to get all "self-help" on you, or tell you stuff you already know, but have you thought about speaking to an employment specialist, see if they can give you hints or constructive criticism on your CV? There are little pointers - like using generic terms for more specialised skills - which might make your CV stay at the top of the pile.
OpulentBob said:
That is brilliant!NeMiSiS said:
Don't be ashamed to sign on, it won’t be long term, and believe it or not the JobCenterPlus can give some sound advice on how to get into work.
My advice would be to emigrate while you have few ties, or should I say before it's too late, even if it’s picking fruit in Australia - it’s a window of opportunity to see what’s there and what could be open to you.
If there is nothing here, move on.
I've always wanted to go to Australia. Although I thought they would only let you in on a permanent basis if you had so much experience in a certain industry and had something to offer. Aside from normal jobs over there I would love to work in Holden's Studio as a modeller.My advice would be to emigrate while you have few ties, or should I say before it's too late, even if it’s picking fruit in Australia - it’s a window of opportunity to see what’s there and what could be open to you.
If there is nothing here, move on.
The only concern with going abroad is the arrangements of my Crohns Treatment.
paolow said:
+1 - while I wish you every success OP - and you clearly have more talent in your little finger than I have in my entire (Adonis like) body - don't forget that if on benefits things like your medication would be free (though it may be now) and you may be entitled to free dentistry, eye checks, that kind of thing. You have paid into it and are entitled to it. Though the reality is, I appreciate, galling.
You have clear ability - don't give up on it and go back to your old job because it's a safety net. Work might be scarce but you clearly have the skills, drive and enthusiasm - something will come up. It might not be in motoring just yet, but there's plenty of time to return there.
Thank you. I don't currently have to pay for my treatment, but I do know its very expensive.You have clear ability - don't give up on it and go back to your old job because it's a safety net. Work might be scarce but you clearly have the skills, drive and enthusiasm - something will come up. It might not be in motoring just yet, but there's plenty of time to return there.
I hope you're right
8Ace said:
I got the reference. "Get me the Justice department. Entertainment division"
Seriously OP, you have my symapthies. How are you applying for jobs BTW? Are you using specialised recruitment agencies? As someone who deals with then from an employers POV I have interviewed and employed people who after reading a CV I was set to reject at first stage. A decent agent can get you in the door and hugely increase your chances.
The fact that yoappaear to be mobile (ie: not confined to South Wales) will go in your favour too. Good luck.
Edited by 8Ace on Friday 19th July 08:48
I've also tried to draw on some of the contacts I have. For example I've spoken a couple of times to one of JLR's chief designers about prospective stuff there. I was also talking to people at SAIC MG over a few weeks and nearly got in there at the beginning of the year, and I've spoken to people at Aston Martin on a few occasions as well as people at a few other places.
Edited by BenRichards89 on Friday 19th July 14:40
craigjm said:
Can I just say that you cant fail psychometric tests. They will have a certain profile they are looking for and you cant "play" the test to try and be that if you are not because there are a number of tests built into the questions to look for consistency and weed out people who are trying to play a game.
Perhaps psychometric was the wrong word that I used? These tests had distinct correct/incorrect answers. My last attempt I ran out of time on the last section. I certainly didn't intend to "play" them, merely get the right answer in the time allowed, which by the end I failed to do as I couldn't get my head around what was being asked quick enough.If I recall the tests were Verbal Reasoning, Numerical Reasoning, and Diagrammatical Reasoning.
The only reason it grated on me was because I knew I was more than capable of the job I was applying for, having already had a year's experience of doing the same job elsewhere, and infact on some occasions, working on their site, on their projects!
Controversial thought perhaps but I felt the tests were not relevant to the position I was applying for and done me a disservice, but they have got to trim down X000's of Graduates to something more accommodating I guess.
Ironically, a friend of mine works there on the Grad Scheme as a Designer, and never even took the tests.
Edited by BenRichards89 on Tuesday 23 July 01:40
Hi Guys, I thought it would be courteous to update what's happening at the moment.
Obviously thanks for all the advice, it is appreciated.
I've completely revamped both of my portfolios, and made a few alterations to my CV. It's all modular depending on what I'm gearing it towards, but I have left my degree and my time as a concept model maker on there.
I have applied for jobs at two formula one teams, which would be a dream if I got! I am also making as much use of as many of the contacts I have as I can. I am chasing up a couple of prospective contracts at OEMs. I've also had correspondence over the last week with some designers at JLR, about opportunities there.
This is on top of basic job appilcations, and other speculative applications.
Although I really don't want to do it, I have my interview for JSA tomorrow. I don't intend to be on it for long.
I am determined to have something lined up at least by the end of this month.
Cheers
Obviously thanks for all the advice, it is appreciated.
I've completely revamped both of my portfolios, and made a few alterations to my CV. It's all modular depending on what I'm gearing it towards, but I have left my degree and my time as a concept model maker on there.
I have applied for jobs at two formula one teams, which would be a dream if I got! I am also making as much use of as many of the contacts I have as I can. I am chasing up a couple of prospective contracts at OEMs. I've also had correspondence over the last week with some designers at JLR, about opportunities there.
This is on top of basic job appilcations, and other speculative applications.
Although I really don't want to do it, I have my interview for JSA tomorrow. I don't intend to be on it for long.
I am determined to have something lined up at least by the end of this month.
Cheers
Slurms said:
Do a masters.
Get yourself something part-time and do a masters to top up your degree, especially if you want roles with companies who won't consider you without it.
I have emailed my old university for more details about an MA course, although I think costs may be prohibitive.Get yourself something part-time and do a masters to top up your degree, especially if you want roles with companies who won't consider you without it.
mu0n said:
Good luck. I just read through your model thread, and although not a fan of the design (it reminded me of the newer MG they actually released), it looked like you put a lot of work into it and must take some talent to even do those drawings, let alone make them 'come to life'. So I thought the 2:2 was a little harsh, but as you say, design is objective.
Working for an F1 team would be amazing, I really hope that comes off for you!
Thanks, I really hope so too.Working for an F1 team would be amazing, I really hope that comes off for you!
The design was already signed off for modelling before the MG6 was released, so although your not a fan (which I understand) at least it looks like an MG to you, which works for me!
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