Why we hate Recruitment Agencies

[lawtoni]

Hi All, I thought this might be worth discussing briefly.

I have been in recruitment for about 10 years
I also understand that like in every industry there are always a number of bad eggs.

I think the biggest reason why agencies take such a bashing and are constantly moaned and complained about as estate agents and now anyone who works in a bank are, is this:
Most people don't understand the purpose of a rec agency.

Misconception:
They are there to find people jobs.

Truth:
They are there to fill their client's jobs. In general (sub £70-100k jobs) the agency gets the vacancy, then looks for the candidates. NOT agency gets lots of random candidates, then looks for jobs to place them in.

They gain absolutely zero in spending time, money effort on people who they cannot place so they don't. No placement = no fee.
In a world where many job seeks very often don't read job specs and fire off 20+ applications in one sitting, similarly agencies don't spend the time rejecting individual candidates.

So when you aren't been contacted/chased/updated by your agency about your application, it is quite probable that you are not successful. Move on and don't waste your time on that job.

Of course we all need to improve our communications skills and customer service skills- every company does. Agencies are no exceptions.

However I think if everyone knew the reality about what recruitment agencies did, everyone would get along a lot better and a lot less blood, sweat and tears would be spilled.

Edited by lawtoni on Tuesday 22 October 16:49

[lawtoni]

SilverLink said:

Two questions if you (or others) don't mind answering for me (IT contract related)..

1. Why do agencies advertise on jobserve and the such and not put the contract rate or budget?
2. Do you ever ask or take up references for people before interview or job offer? Whenever I am asked for this I refuse as I see it as a way of getting potential client names to then bother with cold calls. Is this correct or is there sometimes a job behind this method?

No problem

1. Because an agency will pay you as low a rate as you will accept.
If they advertise a job for £30/hr and you would have accepted £25/hr, they don't make as much money.

2. A good agent will call your refs if he/she thinks they can be a source of new jobs. Agencies don't take up refs before an interview because they only need to do it once- with the person who gets the job, at offer stage

[lawtoni]

Nope. I meant
1 an agency will increase their margins as much as they can. A bit like... er... every company in the world
2. an intelligently run agency will find developing new business important. A bit like... er... every company in the world

stevenjhepburn said:

lawtoni said:

No problem

1. Because an agency will pay you as low a rate as you will accept.
If they advertise a job for £30/hr and you would have accepted £25/hr, they don't make as much money.

2. A good agent will call your refs if he/she thinks they can be a source of new jobs. Agencies don't take up refs before an interview because they only need to do it once- with the person who gets the job, at offer stage

Did you mean

1. My recruitment agency will screw you over
2. A "good" agent will bleed you and your contacts dry

[lawtoni]

If you make money by taking a contract, placing a job advert, and passing the CV's on to your client, then good for you. If and when I use the services of a Recruitment Agency, I will try my damnedest to avoid companies like yours.
[/quote]


No I don't. I provide a very high quality service. Considering we have never spoken or met I don't understand your presumptions on the way I run my business.

[lawtoni]

itsnotarace said:

I spent 9 years contracting in IT so have a reasonable amount of experience with recruitment agencies, nearly all of it bad

Once I was with a client for nearly 3 years. After the initial placement I never heard from the agency again, until I negotiated (by myself with the client) a £5 p/h pay rise. The recruitment agency phones up a few days later out of the blue and claims they have negotiated me a £2 per hour pay rise expecting me to be pleased about it. FLOL

Lying bds, the lot of them

The recruitment industry is worth £34b and employs circa 100,000 people.
Yes liars and bds each and every one
Good for you!

[lawtoni]

stevenjhepburn said:

er... wrong again! Guys like you have such a negative, money-grabbing, short-term gain attitude. You simply can't comprehend that many, many companies "in the world" value long-term, sustainable, ethical business practices to create long-term value.

By sustainable I mean at a micro level - valuing individual relationships, not a macro "there are so many mugs, the next one will be along soon" level.

What is negative, money-grabbing, short-term gain about finding a guy a job who is happy to accept the role, conditions, location and salary
Do we put guns to people's heads and force them to accept these jobs?!

There is such a thing as competition! which like in every industry, (partic one as competitive and saturated as recruimentment) that controls prices and profits

[lawtoni]

alock said:

lawtoni said:

Truth:
They are there to fill their client's jobs. In general (sub £70-100k jobs) the agency gets the vacancy, then looks for the candidates. NOT agency gets lots of random candidates, then looks for jobs to place them in.

In my experience they are not very good at this either! They just seem to take a job spec from a client, rip the key words out of it and search for them in a database of CVs. The top five search results get sent to the client.

I've yet to see an agency which couldn't be replaced by a computer program.

then why haven't they been?!

[lawtoni]

stevenjhepburn said:

Your client has a specific budget, you (hopefully) have the knowledge of the market rates and where this particular job should be pitched, along comes someone with the right skill-set who for whatever reason doesn't know the market rates or circumstances mean that he is desperate for a job, and your business philosophy is "screw every penny you can out of him". Yet you wonder how I can judge you?

Have you ever considered pricing the job fairly, getting in a better candidate, being content with an adequate profit for a placement and making everyone happy?

Sorry, but yet again you are making far reaching presumptions of how my business works. You are 100% incorrect in these assumptions.

I do all of these things, and still (again) like every company have a healthy eye for the margin I make. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

[lawtoni]

stevenjhepburn said:

lawtoni said:

You are 100% incorrect in these assumptions.

Tell us, if you can, why someone who is looking for a job should approach your agency.

Because having fully understood what makes them tick, I may be able to find them a great job with a great salary with job prospects that match their aspirations

[lawtoni]

stevenjhepburn said:

lawtoni said:

Because having fully understood what makes them tick, I may be able to find them a great job with a great salary with job prospects that match their aspirations

So nothing different to any of the other circa 100,000 people in the industry?

Right now it sounds like your USP is that you have jobs. Which isn't much of a USP. How do you differentiate yourself from the "bad eggs"?

Do you think all recruiters deliver that?
Gosh what makes you think I have time or inclination to beg you to love me?!

My USP is the quality of service I provide. My clients and the candidates I place and deal with tell me they are delighted. That's good enough for me.

[lawtoni]

Disastrous said:

lawtoni said:

stevenjhepburn said:

lawtoni said:

Because having fully understood what makes them tick, I may be able to find them a great job with a great salary with job prospects that match their aspirations

So nothing different to any of the other circa 100,000 people in the industry?

Right now it sounds like your USP is that you have jobs. Which isn't much of a USP. How do you differentiate yourself from the "bad eggs"?

Do you think all recruiters deliver that?
Gosh what makes you think I have time or inclination to beg you to love me?!

My USP is the quality of service I provide. My clients and the candidates I place and deal with tell me they are delighted. That's good enough for me.

I suppose it would be the needy thread trying to convince everyone what a nice business you run would be what might make one think you have both the time and inclination.

Why have you started a thread effectively saying "We're not all bad and I'm one of the good ones!" and then argued with everyone who has had a bad experience with recruitment agencies?

I don't care either way as agencies are irrelevant to me but the thread is just mildly irritating.

The guy was making accusations about me and my business without any knowledge of either. So no I don't need to pander to him! I'm also not here to sell my own business, this is not the place for that. Who sells to people without having an idea they might want to buy anyway?
Who else have I 'argued' with?
If you are irritated by the thread, why don't you leave it?

[lawtoni]

Nick Grant said:

"...offers a highly focused and comprehensive service across all industry sectors and at all levels of seniority within the multi-lingual market. We offer services in the permanent, contract and temporary job market."

How can your service be highly focused and yet cover all levels, sectors and role types?

You may very well be spot on but given that I know nothing of the company you refer to (stevenjhepburn please take note) i couldn't I make any comment about it?

[lawtoni]

Nick Grant said:

There's too many Paul Lawtons in recruitment on LinkedIn

Again! you know nothing about my old company (I left there 6 months ago)
Have you used their service before making these assumptions?
Phone them up and try them, they are excellent. But don't slag stuff off without any knowledge of them!

[lawtoni]

Nick Grant said:

Not sure if serious. How do you judge people? By what is written on thier CV. Same way I'm making my judgement.

I make my judgement by meeting people, by talking to them and gaining a full understanding about who they are and what they are looking for. You not so much
There are agencies that just skim read CVs and send them on but not many

[lawtoni]

Nick Grant said:

And how do you decide which ones to meet?

with common sense ffs!

[lawtoni]

STW2010 said:

So your selling point is that you could find someone their dream job by understanding what they want, but in reality you don't do this? So your selling point is also a load of bullst.

Ever think, and I mean really think, about why people believe that recruitment consultants are liars?

My comments were clearly about the recruitment industry in general. The way I work is professional and courteous and I find good people good jobs.

Proclaiming (like many people have done on this thread) that the 100,000+ people in the UK that work in recruitment agencies are all liars, bds and lying bds is not intelligent.
100,000 people from all parts of the country, ends of the pay scales and all parts of society are not all liars! That is as dim as saying all french people are dishonest or all Americans are thick!

The problem seems to be the perception of what recruiters do, are able to do (as highlighted by RepiV)and what they should do.
I agree that there are improvements needed across the industry, clearly. But there are so many misconceptions and sweeping generalisations it's untrue

[lawtoni]

blindswelledrat said:

Lawtoni, you are a terrible reflection on the recruitment industry. You talk/type exactly like the sort of person whose nickname is his surname with an "I" tagged on to the end.

Effectively you have started a thread saying "Don't get angry with recruiters, just accept that if I don't need you at a given time then I don't give a flying fk about you. As long as you accept this you will understand how recruitment companies work and we will all be happy"

I've been in recruitment for a long time, and I know exactly what type of consultant you are from your attitude on here, and like it or not, you are exactly the sort of person who gives the industry a bad name.
I believe you that your clients and contractors think you give them a good service and I believe that is all that matters to you.
I don't agree with you though. I believe any company in the world (as you like to benchmark) gains a reputation from it's dealings with everyone they come into contact with and if you are as dismissive as you imply just because someone is of no immediate financial gain then you have to accept the reputation you have and give your industry without whinging about it.

This thread that I started in order to hear and share people's views has become too personal and based on the last poster, i will leave you to it