Job move - big risk
Discussion
Thoughts appreciated.
I'm in the fortunate position of having a well paid job (senior lecturer at a very good university, en route to becoming a Professor in the not too distant future). It's also a very safe job, and it has one of those very rare beasts as a perk: a final salary pension scheme. Only one problem. It's doing my nut in. For reasons too dreary to explain in any depth, the thought of working there for another 25 or so years makes me shrivel up inside. And not in a good way.
Last week I was offered a senior position within a small (but growing) consultancy firm that I occasionally do some work for. A very persuasive offer indeed. Good salary, a pension scheme of sorts, private medical, and annual bonus. The door is open for me. Problem being that it's in a very competitive, volatile sector (intelligence/political risk) and the risk (ironic, I know) of it going tits up is of an order of magnitude far greater than the same happening to my present employer, which will probably still be there when the Sun explodes.
Problem being that this isn't just my future I'm dicking with. My wife doesn't have great earning potential (mental health issues) so she's relying on me to pay the mortgage and provide for our retirement. My choice in the next few months could have huge implications either way. I can stay where I am, becoming increasingly unhappy but safe and secure. Or I could take this massive risk with her future. She, by the way, would follow me through the gates of hell so obviously I have been told that if I switch she will be behind me 100%. But she's not impartial. And if I leave academia, there's no going back. That door will be firmly closed by the University, and my specialisation is a narrow one, with very limited academic opportunities elsewhere in the country.
Anyone else taken this sort of jump? The sort of total, abrupt turn that promised either great success or ruin?
I'm in the fortunate position of having a well paid job (senior lecturer at a very good university, en route to becoming a Professor in the not too distant future). It's also a very safe job, and it has one of those very rare beasts as a perk: a final salary pension scheme. Only one problem. It's doing my nut in. For reasons too dreary to explain in any depth, the thought of working there for another 25 or so years makes me shrivel up inside. And not in a good way.
Last week I was offered a senior position within a small (but growing) consultancy firm that I occasionally do some work for. A very persuasive offer indeed. Good salary, a pension scheme of sorts, private medical, and annual bonus. The door is open for me. Problem being that it's in a very competitive, volatile sector (intelligence/political risk) and the risk (ironic, I know) of it going tits up is of an order of magnitude far greater than the same happening to my present employer, which will probably still be there when the Sun explodes.
Problem being that this isn't just my future I'm dicking with. My wife doesn't have great earning potential (mental health issues) so she's relying on me to pay the mortgage and provide for our retirement. My choice in the next few months could have huge implications either way. I can stay where I am, becoming increasingly unhappy but safe and secure. Or I could take this massive risk with her future. She, by the way, would follow me through the gates of hell so obviously I have been told that if I switch she will be behind me 100%. But she's not impartial. And if I leave academia, there's no going back. That door will be firmly closed by the University, and my specialisation is a narrow one, with very limited academic opportunities elsewhere in the country.
Anyone else taken this sort of jump? The sort of total, abrupt turn that promised either great success or ruin?
simoid said:
I'm thinking:
Am I to infer that leaving your job at the uni would be a step up in salary, but a step down in pension? Do you have any sort of negotiating position with the new job offer? Ie could they be tempted to up their salary/pension benefits - you say it's a niche industry so presumably there's a fairly limited supply of labour. They might be able to sweeten the deal further.
On the other hand, it does seem like going from one end of the job security spectrum to the other. It looks to me that you cannot realistically stay in your present job for more than the medium term. But I don't think you're talking like youre to make the leap for this particular offer.
Yes, I would say you are correct. Certainly the earning potential of the new role exceeds by some degree (particularly with bonuses included) that which I could ever expect in my present role. But the pension would be nowhere near as good. But the issue isn't the pay, really. I'm just so stupendously bored in my present job that I'm in danger of not giving my students the very best that is due to them.Am I to infer that leaving your job at the uni would be a step up in salary, but a step down in pension? Do you have any sort of negotiating position with the new job offer? Ie could they be tempted to up their salary/pension benefits - you say it's a niche industry so presumably there's a fairly limited supply of labour. They might be able to sweeten the deal further.
On the other hand, it does seem like going from one end of the job security spectrum to the other. It looks to me that you cannot realistically stay in your present job for more than the medium term. But I don't think you're talking like youre to make the leap for this particular offer.
Someone once said that when it came to job opportunities, they had never regretted a 'leap into the unknown'.
As it stands, I'll be taking the new job.
All
Thanks for the feeback. Much appreciated. In response to a few of the questions posed
1) Obviously I'd be using the greater remuneration in order to swell the pension pot so as to compensate. I don't actually have that much in my present employer scheme, as I only started putting in about 5 years ago. I'm 40, so I'm up against it timewise, I know.
2)In answer to your question TVR, I did a BA, then straight to a PhD, then into a think tank (IISS) then into a university. And I teach mainly international politics and security. I'm a historian by training, but not by teaching necessarily. And I never really wanted to be an academic but in the absence of any other skills, I sort of fell into it.
2) As some have pointed out, it would be a good idea to try and maintain links with my present institution. I will try to do that but once I'm out of a permanent position, I'm pretty much out for good (visiting lectureship notwithstanding). If this was a career break to go and some something 'academic' at another university then they might give me two years unpaid leave or a period of secondment, but working in the City doesn't count. So the odd lecture here and there, sure. But no more being full time academic. Not here anyway!
3) I could hold on to become a professor but that's nearer 5 years than 2. And British universities are increasingly using the US system of calling everyone a professor (I'd be an Assistant Professor, in my present post) so there's little clarity these days in who does what, something that will get worse. And yes, you are right, the kudos would be great but i don't know if I could grit my teeth that long (very first world problem I know). Doesn't help that I outperformed all my Professors' in the REF, either. Makes a mockery of the seniority thing.
4) My university demands that, if you take a sabbatical, then you teach and lecture for an amount of time subsequently in order to compensate; a sort of 'return of service'. And the sabbaticals are 3 months in duration, once every three years. So there's no way I could combine the two.
5) Twig, you're probably right
I suppose the biggest thing for me is that I've never really taken a risk in my life, and if I don't take this one, not only will I think less of myself, I will always be thinking, 'what if?'
I hasten to add that this isn't a decsion to be made immediately, but certainly within the next 6 months or so.
Cheers all
Thanks for the feeback. Much appreciated. In response to a few of the questions posed
1) Obviously I'd be using the greater remuneration in order to swell the pension pot so as to compensate. I don't actually have that much in my present employer scheme, as I only started putting in about 5 years ago. I'm 40, so I'm up against it timewise, I know.
2)In answer to your question TVR, I did a BA, then straight to a PhD, then into a think tank (IISS) then into a university. And I teach mainly international politics and security. I'm a historian by training, but not by teaching necessarily. And I never really wanted to be an academic but in the absence of any other skills, I sort of fell into it.
2) As some have pointed out, it would be a good idea to try and maintain links with my present institution. I will try to do that but once I'm out of a permanent position, I'm pretty much out for good (visiting lectureship notwithstanding). If this was a career break to go and some something 'academic' at another university then they might give me two years unpaid leave or a period of secondment, but working in the City doesn't count. So the odd lecture here and there, sure. But no more being full time academic. Not here anyway!
3) I could hold on to become a professor but that's nearer 5 years than 2. And British universities are increasingly using the US system of calling everyone a professor (I'd be an Assistant Professor, in my present post) so there's little clarity these days in who does what, something that will get worse. And yes, you are right, the kudos would be great but i don't know if I could grit my teeth that long (very first world problem I know). Doesn't help that I outperformed all my Professors' in the REF, either. Makes a mockery of the seniority thing.
4) My university demands that, if you take a sabbatical, then you teach and lecture for an amount of time subsequently in order to compensate; a sort of 'return of service'. And the sabbaticals are 3 months in duration, once every three years. So there's no way I could combine the two.
5) Twig, you're probably right
I suppose the biggest thing for me is that I've never really taken a risk in my life, and if I don't take this one, not only will I think less of myself, I will always be thinking, 'what if?'
I hasten to add that this isn't a decsion to be made immediately, but certainly within the next 6 months or so.
Cheers all
Edited by Joey Ramone on Monday 17th March 09:46
Many thanks
Oh yeah, my commute at present is 1/4 of a mile. That'll change! But my teaching/lecturing schedule appears a lot more intense than yours (not saying the overall workload is - just that aspect). And you're young, so you have time on your side. But I do have nightmares about the USS pension scheme imploding...
Academia is,I think, a great job if:
1) You have come from something else beforehand,possibly the private sector and are therefore well placed to understand how Academia compares. The happiest guys here have done that.
2)You love the subject you teach, and wish for nothing more than to study it in depth
3)You are excellent. I mean properly excellent. I meet some academics who are, quite frankly, pointless. Poor quality research and writing, poor quality teaching, poor quality people all round. Conversely, there are some that blow my mind and make the world a better place for their being in it. However, if I was one of the latter, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation (thankfully, I'm not one of the former either, otherwise people wouldn't be trying to tempt me into their company)
Oh yeah, my commute at present is 1/4 of a mile. That'll change! But my teaching/lecturing schedule appears a lot more intense than yours (not saying the overall workload is - just that aspect). And you're young, so you have time on your side. But I do have nightmares about the USS pension scheme imploding...
Academia is,I think, a great job if:
1) You have come from something else beforehand,possibly the private sector and are therefore well placed to understand how Academia compares. The happiest guys here have done that.
2)You love the subject you teach, and wish for nothing more than to study it in depth
3)You are excellent. I mean properly excellent. I meet some academics who are, quite frankly, pointless. Poor quality research and writing, poor quality teaching, poor quality people all round. Conversely, there are some that blow my mind and make the world a better place for their being in it. However, if I was one of the latter, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation (thankfully, I'm not one of the former either, otherwise people wouldn't be trying to tempt me into their company)
Edited by Joey Ramone on Monday 17th March 11:37
I may drift that way at some point. The consultancy I would be going to is slightly more specific in that it works mainly with hedge funds and UHNWI's, but yes, that might be where I eventually land up.
Weird. Youa always hear of other people going through these dilemma's and think it will never happen to you. Until it does.
Weird. Youa always hear of other people going through these dilemma's and think it will never happen to you. Until it does.
TVR Sagaris said:
Have you considered semi-academic roles (somewhere like RUSI)?
Unfortunately, RUSI is one of those places where you end up if you're desperate and can't get an academic job anywhere respectable. Awful money too.And yes, I did apply for a job there when I was just starting out
Glad I didn't get it though.
The problem is that they would only hire me back if they could include me in the 2018 REF. I probably have two pieces of the four required already but a full time job in an entirely different industry will take me right out of the research loop.I reckon a REF'able article in a high quality journal takes about 4 months to a year to write. Add another year for the peer review system to kick in, and then maybe another year before publication and you begin to see the problem. The other issue is that they would probably demand another book as part of the submission.If I stayed in I could write it, if I leave then no chance.
In fact the REF,and the 'impact' requirement that our work is now meant to have is one reason why I want to leave. It has turned academia into a game, the only winners being those that can bang out research that claims to be listened to by policymakers/Govt/etc. Total bulls
t. And completely antithetical to high quality output, particularly in book form.
In fact the REF,and the 'impact' requirement that our work is now meant to have is one reason why I want to leave. It has turned academia into a game, the only winners being those that can bang out research that claims to be listened to by policymakers/Govt/etc. Total bulls
t. And completely antithetical to high quality output, particularly in book form.It's just the risk, mate. I'm in a small pond at present, but there's no predators. Safe as houses. Out there's the ocean. May swim, may sink. Bit sobering, that's all.
If I had a PhD in maths or economics I wouldn't be so bothered. A humanities PhD and a career to date in academia is almost a recipe fur unemployment in the real world!
I appreciate your points though. Spoke to my boss today - he was sympathetic and asked me to keep him informed. I've asked for 2yrs unpaid leave but i can almost guarantee it will be refused by the university hierarchy
If I had a PhD in maths or economics I wouldn't be so bothered. A humanities PhD and a career to date in academia is almost a recipe fur unemployment in the real world!
I appreciate your points though. Spoke to my boss today - he was sympathetic and asked me to keep him informed. I've asked for 2yrs unpaid leave but i can almost guarantee it will be refused by the university hierarchy
Martin_M said:
I'm also in education but in the primary school sector. I'm currently a Principal Teacher and would love to move into Further Education but as yet, I haven't seen any vacancies advertised. From memory, not many of the lecturers on my PGCE course were doctors so I remain hopeful that a vacancy will arise that does not stipulate the need for a PhD.
All the best in your new job - it must be a very good offer for you to consider a move given your current salary and conditions.
My current salary and conditions are very generous. But they really don't compensate for the feeling of jaded boredom. Hence the potential move.All the best in your new job - it must be a very good offer for you to consider a move given your current salary and conditions.
10 years ago I would have chewed my own arm off to be where I am now. Yet now I'm here, I realise that something's missing. So as you contemplate a move onwards and upwards, bear my experience in mind!
I'll be honest. The guy offering me the job (I know him and trust him) has promised to make me a lot of money. But hand on heart, it's not really about the money in the sense of any materialistic need on my part, but the security it offers. If I can make money, I can pay off my mortgage quickly and then properly relax for the first time in about 20 years. It's about that, rather than buying flash motors and showy watches*. But that desire for security works both ways obviously. Not a risk taker by nature, not when it comes to money.
Anyway, I'll keep you peeps updated. Cheers for the words of advice/encouragement.
- Alright, maybe a Panerai PAM0388 but that's it, honest.
Martin M: Difficult, I think. Certainly going back to my original institution. Taking more than a year or two out will screw up my chances of producing the necessary output for the next university sector audit (the so-called 'REF'). Basically, research rankings are so important now for certain uni's that they focus almost solely upon a candidate's track record and future prospects in that respect.
Pit Pony: We are allowed, contractually, to do 30 days consulting a year. However, there appears little flexibility beyond that. You certainly can't split your time. It is interesting to note that two senior academics here were forced to resign recently because the University would not allow them to take time out to pursue teaching opportunities in the Gulf. The reason given was 'potential reputational damage'. It's pretty certain that the same reason would be given to me when they found out about the sort of work done by the shady bunch of hoods that have offered me a position.
Joke. Not shady. But not to a prim university's taste, either.
Pit Pony: We are allowed, contractually, to do 30 days consulting a year. However, there appears little flexibility beyond that. You certainly can't split your time. It is interesting to note that two senior academics here were forced to resign recently because the University would not allow them to take time out to pursue teaching opportunities in the Gulf. The reason given was 'potential reputational damage'. It's pretty certain that the same reason would be given to me when they found out about the sort of work done by the shady bunch of hoods that have offered me a position.
Joke. Not shady. But not to a prim university's taste, either.
Edited by Joey Ramone on Thursday 20th March 23:43
Edited by Joey Ramone on Thursday 20th March 23:44
Thought I would give an update.
I have formally accepted the offer of a job with the new consultancy. I start full-time in January, although I'm effectively working for them over July/August/September. In fact they're sending me abroad for most of August.
My present employer has, surprisingly, been most understanding and has given me two years unpaid leave, effectively holding my position open for me to return at the end of that period. I doubt I will, though, unless the new job is awful. I really don't want to go back to the University sector.
My salary will be effectively doubled, I will have private healthcare provision and all travel costs met. However, the pension will be far less generous, and the commuting far more arduous. On that point though, having a short commute to a job you hate is a very false economy indeed.
I'm excited. It's a weight off my shoulders and I can look forward to the future now, rather than just shrivel up from a combination of boredom, apathy and repressed self - loathing.
I have formally accepted the offer of a job with the new consultancy. I start full-time in January, although I'm effectively working for them over July/August/September. In fact they're sending me abroad for most of August.
My present employer has, surprisingly, been most understanding and has given me two years unpaid leave, effectively holding my position open for me to return at the end of that period. I doubt I will, though, unless the new job is awful. I really don't want to go back to the University sector.
My salary will be effectively doubled, I will have private healthcare provision and all travel costs met. However, the pension will be far less generous, and the commuting far more arduous. On that point though, having a short commute to a job you hate is a very false economy indeed.
I'm excited. It's a weight off my shoulders and I can look forward to the future now, rather than just shrivel up from a combination of boredom, apathy and repressed self - loathing.
Yeah, my new head of dept was excellent. His reasoning was, 'I can either secure you two years unpaid leave and have a chance of getting you back, or I can not bother, and I'll never see you again'. He's also done shedloads of consulting and understands that doing something different and getting well rewarded for it isn't actually a crime. Some of my colleagues are seething with jealousy it has to be said. Not because they would like my new job per se, but simply because I got off my arse and found a way out and they simply can't figure out how to do the same thing.
I'm not smug though. The new venture may not work out for me, and I may end up back at the old place. And they're good people underneath it all.
I'm not smug though. The new venture may not work out for me, and I may end up back at the old place. And they're good people underneath it all.
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