company taking car allowance away
Discussion
The company I work for recently decided that anyone on car allowance (is me) must have a car less than seven years old or should swap to a company car. As I do around 36k miles a year a new car is out of the question as a new car would be worth virtually nil after 3 years. I advised my boss that I would opt to have a company car but he said that due to my job role (field engineer) company cars were no longer being issued and that I would have to have a company van, Vivaro. I put the case that my contract clearly states company car or allowance, he can see no problem in me taking a van. I explained that I would therefore be out of pocket and asked for an increase in salary to compensate - flat refusal. A van is of no use to a family, 2 adults and 2 kids. After an hour of him giving me the company gospel of no cars I said that I would remain on allowance and get a newer car but then he says that as cars are no longer considered suitable my car allowance would be withdrawn anyway. Any advice please?
Hi folks, tried the option of just getting a car which is less than 7 but the boss says that no matter how old (or young) my chosen car is that if he deems it as unsuitable ( ie it is not a van) then they can stop the car allowance. My point is that I should have the option, as per my contract of either allowance or CAR. If my role, and that of other engineers, has changed so much then surely the company should be giving us new TS&cs. when I joined the company, 18 years ago, the car allowance was an incentive but now the company just see it as a requirement to do the job.
Muzzer79 said:
A company vehicle is just that- a tool for doing your job
If the company therefore deem that a van is more suitable then, unless you have a specific type of vehicle mentioned in your contract, you would need to live with it IMO
It is a perk in that it's also your family car, but that's of no concern to the company
I'd negotiate a bit more cash possibly but expect to suck it up
Could not agree more, but the company has changed the role.If the company therefore deem that a van is more suitable then, unless you have a specific type of vehicle mentioned in your contract, you would need to live with it IMO
It is a perk in that it's also your family car, but that's of no concern to the company
I'd negotiate a bit more cash possibly but expect to suck it up
UpTheIron said:
hat have they changed?
Having run a Mondeo sized estate for 17 years (cavalier, merc 300, primera, volvo v70, citroen c5, maxda 6) they now require us to have a van to carry ladders and more spares.My point is that they have changed the role, not the job description or contract.
UpTheIron said:
6 year old Mondeo estate?
Do you need a van to do your job?
Or take the van and keep your current car.
Happy to take the van but fail to see why I should be 3.6k short in pay when it is the company that has changed the role. If they want me to use a van then fine, but my contract has been that I get car or allowance, not a van. Car allowance was incentive to join, for first six years did not even need as car, used the bus.Do you need a van to do your job?
Or take the van and keep your current car.
theboss said:
OP does anything prevent you from keeping your current car for family use, and taking the van for business as intended by the employer? Do you foresee yourself being considerably worse off financially, or is it more the case that you'd rather spend the time/miles in your own car and get reimbursed for it? (I know I would...)
Also are they giving you a mileage allowance at present?
I am paid the govt decreed 16p a mile, claiming rest via tax. Certainly worse off as currently get 305 quid a month car allowance which drops to nil, no private miles allowed and van tracked. Company also has strange ideas about damage, windscreen chip - stone chips - vandalism etal all down to keeper of van ie me.Also are they giving you a mileage allowance at present?
theboss said:
On the other hand... If they are paying for fuel... Why not let them bear any ordinary commuting costs, providing the OP has room to park both at home.
No room at home, mainly due to vans bearing words which translate as"I am full of computer equipment" being broken into and torched thereby causing damage to my home. Can park in local car park but van would be damaged or gone very very often.Terminator X said:
If you don't want to rock the boat Brian due to age etc perhaps just accept the van and keep the car? Time to realize though that loyalty means nowt these days ...
TX.
Agreed Terminator, amazing how often vans become u/s or damaged overnight. Could be lots of time off......TX.
conanius said:
I'd try going for a middle ground. What about something like a Zafira.
Ok, it isn't going to give cutting edge driving dynamics, but the seats fold flat into the floor, and its 'car like' enough to be potentially ok for your wife. Try suggesting that?
I too have a wife who is disabled (well, she isn't officially disabled as to quote the DWP 'she may get better one day' but that is a whole different thread !! she needs a mobility scooter for walking) so I know how difficult car choices can be. Unfortunately, your employer didn't employ your wife, they employed you, and in the nicest way, your personal circumstances are non of their concern or care really within reason. I don't agree with what or how they are doing it, but their contract is with you as an employee, and if they say you have a company vehicle and give you one to do it, you can't really do much I don't think without going elsewhere or going via HR.
Frustrating thing for you is I think you are between a rock and a hard place. Are you in a financially solvent enough situation to simply resign and do something different? Even if it means a property downsize etc it might work out less stressful than hassle with the boss and HR dragged out till you retire.
Zafira would be fine by me but manager says that whatever vehicle i choose can be considered as unsuitable by the company so potentially wasting my money. contract also clearly states car, not vehicle.Ok, it isn't going to give cutting edge driving dynamics, but the seats fold flat into the floor, and its 'car like' enough to be potentially ok for your wife. Try suggesting that?
I too have a wife who is disabled (well, she isn't officially disabled as to quote the DWP 'she may get better one day' but that is a whole different thread !! she needs a mobility scooter for walking) so I know how difficult car choices can be. Unfortunately, your employer didn't employ your wife, they employed you, and in the nicest way, your personal circumstances are non of their concern or care really within reason. I don't agree with what or how they are doing it, but their contract is with you as an employee, and if they say you have a company vehicle and give you one to do it, you can't really do much I don't think without going elsewhere or going via HR.
Frustrating thing for you is I think you are between a rock and a hard place. Are you in a financially solvent enough situation to simply resign and do something different? Even if it means a property downsize etc it might work out less stressful than hassle with the boss and HR dragged out till you retire.
UpTheIron said:
I realise it's a important issue to you Brian, but it might be that it is difficult for you to take a step back here:
- You took the role as your saw the extra cash as an incentive, rather than reimbursement for an expense you would bear. Of course I did, but it was certainly a factor, extra money which formed part of the deal.
- You've been there 18 years... perhaps makes it harder to accept but in 18 years it's inevitable that things will change. granted, but I have not made the changes.
- It sounds like the role has changed, although not clear how. The company has taken on more customers, requiring larger parts.
- Initially you didn't even the car, so it was purely a perk. Not a perk, a part of the contract.
- The company is perhaps trying (needing?) to cut costs...
- ...or perhaps the role does genuinely need a van. Not in the last 18 years.
- I suspect your contract says they can remove the car allowance if it isn't needed for the role (and they are now saying it isn't, and that you need a van). No mention of being able to remove allowance or car option.
- Have you suggested that you will buy a van-sized car (e.g. an estate). Would this be fit for purpose? He could not make any recommendations as role may change again. See above
- You keep saying your boss "can" deem anything unsuitable - so ask him to suggest something suitable. See above
- Take the van, leave it at work, pay £0 tax and accept things have changed. cannot leave at work as nearest office is 120 miles away
- Find a new job on your terms if you wish. looking more likely
- Play hard ball and risk having to find a new job on their terms. may come to that.
I don't mean to sound so negative, but on the face of it they aren't being too unreasonable. I feel they are as it reduces my pay by over 3k with no benefit to me at all, who wants a white van which I cannot use for private use on the drive?
- You took the role as your saw the extra cash as an incentive, rather than reimbursement for an expense you would bear. Of course I did, but it was certainly a factor, extra money which formed part of the deal.
- You've been there 18 years... perhaps makes it harder to accept but in 18 years it's inevitable that things will change. granted, but I have not made the changes.
- It sounds like the role has changed, although not clear how. The company has taken on more customers, requiring larger parts.
- Initially you didn't even the car, so it was purely a perk. Not a perk, a part of the contract.
- The company is perhaps trying (needing?) to cut costs...
- ...or perhaps the role does genuinely need a van. Not in the last 18 years.
- I suspect your contract says they can remove the car allowance if it isn't needed for the role (and they are now saying it isn't, and that you need a van). No mention of being able to remove allowance or car option.
- Have you suggested that you will buy a van-sized car (e.g. an estate). Would this be fit for purpose? He could not make any recommendations as role may change again. See above
- You keep saying your boss "can" deem anything unsuitable - so ask him to suggest something suitable. See above
- Take the van, leave it at work, pay £0 tax and accept things have changed. cannot leave at work as nearest office is 120 miles away
- Find a new job on your terms if you wish. looking more likely
- Play hard ball and risk having to find a new job on their terms. may come to that.
I don't mean to sound so negative, but on the face of it they aren't being too unreasonable. I feel they are as it reduces my pay by over 3k with no benefit to me at all, who wants a white van which I cannot use for private use on the drive?
Hackney said:
What about a Skoda Yeti
Or a VW Amarok (crew cab)
Would fit the brief if being sufficiently rugged / works van like but usable as a family car
I could suggest the starship enterprise but if the company can stop the allowance at any time i am stuck with something i cannot afford to buy. Even without this threat what could I get for 305 a month (before tax) on which i will be clocking up 36000 miles a year? No lease company would even entertain it.Or a VW Amarok (crew cab)
Would fit the brief if being sufficiently rugged / works van like but usable as a family car
UpTheIron said:
Best of luck... given the picture you have painted I'd be tempted to try and negotiate something amicable (take the van and ask for a small pay increase), or take the van and start looking for a new job.
How many others are in the same situation?
What if you were offered a car allowance to the same amount as the van is going to cost the company (which, if he owns the Vauxhall dealer too could be next to nothing)?
I also don't go along with the "what could I get for £XXX, I do 36k/year, can't least anything" argument. Plenty of 4/5/6 year old cars that will do the job.
Sorry to sound so negative, it's just I struggle to see a happy ending!
I know they can do the job, you know they can do the job but the company refuse to budge. We have about 40 guys in same situation but the company are picking us off one by one, no general announcement made. Hopefully a compromise can be reached or I will be stacking shelves.How many others are in the same situation?
What if you were offered a car allowance to the same amount as the van is going to cost the company (which, if he owns the Vauxhall dealer too could be next to nothing)?
I also don't go along with the "what could I get for £XXX, I do 36k/year, can't least anything" argument. Plenty of 4/5/6 year old cars that will do the job.
Sorry to sound so negative, it's just I struggle to see a happy ending!
Breadvan72 said:
I am an employment lawyer, so thanks for the lecture, but no thanks. It's not a grey area. This is nothing like a constructive dismissal.
The OP is being offered a van. Even if he could quibble that a van is not a car within the meaning of the contract, the company can just say "we have a business need to reorganise the fleet", and the OP is stuffed. If he resigns and claims constructive dismissal over this, he will be on a hiding to nothing. The OP can and should negotiate for a better deal, and if need be file a grievance. The Union may be able to get the OP a good result by negotiating. Talking of constructive dismissal is just daft.
Thanks to all of you. Hoping the union get back to me tomorrow or very soon as I want to word the grievance letter correctly as unsure as to what discrimination (if any) to complain about. Talking to our other guys regarding this, it transpires that the boss is on a bonus of £125 for each engineer he gets out of a car and into a van. As he has almost 60 reporting to him up the chain it is a very good incentive - but only for him. Would the boss be obliged to confirm the bonus if I asked him directly? Strikes me as curious that if the company want us all in vans it should simply say so in an announcement and not by picking us off one at a time. The OP is being offered a van. Even if he could quibble that a van is not a car within the meaning of the contract, the company can just say "we have a business need to reorganise the fleet", and the OP is stuffed. If he resigns and claims constructive dismissal over this, he will be on a hiding to nothing. The OP can and should negotiate for a better deal, and if need be file a grievance. The Union may be able to get the OP a good result by negotiating. Talking of constructive dismissal is just daft.
Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 21st April 18:50
Just a swift update for anyone interested. Had my grievance meeting, company more concerned about the process my manager did not follow than my grievance. Pointed out that company car policy does not even apply to me as my Ts&Cs remain unchanged since the TUPE move so I can drive whatever age car I choose as long as it is reliable and suitable for my job. Also pointed out that company cannot change my contract without my agreement as they will be in breach of contract. Following day got a letter from HR saying that I can remain on car allowance with my trusty Mazda 6 estate and if (more like when) I am required to move to a van I will be invited in for discussions on my contract. Partial victory but who knows how long for....
MitchT said:
When the time comes, and assuming that the bulk of the 36k miles is work and not commuting, just use your own car to get to work and insist that they provide a pool vehicle for work travel. Do make sure the work vehicle is a pool one and not your 'company vehicle' or you'll end up paying BIK tax on something you're getting no personal benefit from.
I work from home so have no commute to do, each day my first journey could be anywhere in our region (Lowestoft to Leicester, Felixstowe to Skegness) so cannot pick up a company vehicle as nearest office is Nottingham which would of course mean I would be paying out a shedfull of cash for commuting.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff