Lifting at work
Discussion
I joined a company selling heavy diagnostic equipment. When I joined, it was explained that engineers would deliver and move about the equipment in their vans, with very occasional need to move it myself via car (the heaviest is about 45kg unevenly distributed). We also have medical tables which are large (as in fill the back of an estate car) and weigh about the same.
Since joining, it's actually been down to me to collect and move the kit around. This is having an impact on my back, as I'm quite slight in build and the lifting and twisting I need to do to get things in and out means I have no way of avoiding my back taking the strain. leaning over and putting the 45kg kit onto the back seat of the car is very uncomfortable.
Sadly, in the past month the person who hired me has been ousted and a little Hitler put in his place. THe relationship is already becoming strained and I am concerned that if I make a fuss over the weight, I am going to find myself out of a job. Having only been there 5 months, I am not protected by unfair dismissal provisions and I don't know whether serious breaches of HSE lifting guidance and my refusal to continue with them would offer me any protection were I to be fired for this reason (my performance otherwise is not in question).
I'm already looking to move on but would be interested to hear from anyone with experience of these kind of matters.
Since joining, it's actually been down to me to collect and move the kit around. This is having an impact on my back, as I'm quite slight in build and the lifting and twisting I need to do to get things in and out means I have no way of avoiding my back taking the strain. leaning over and putting the 45kg kit onto the back seat of the car is very uncomfortable.
Sadly, in the past month the person who hired me has been ousted and a little Hitler put in his place. THe relationship is already becoming strained and I am concerned that if I make a fuss over the weight, I am going to find myself out of a job. Having only been there 5 months, I am not protected by unfair dismissal provisions and I don't know whether serious breaches of HSE lifting guidance and my refusal to continue with them would offer me any protection were I to be fired for this reason (my performance otherwise is not in question).
I'm already looking to move on but would be interested to hear from anyone with experience of these kind of matters.
Edited by tenpenceshort on Thursday 10th July 10:14
If anyone could recommend a reasonable employment specialist I'd like to take advice on whether a disclosure to the company over the ongoing HSE breaches (which apply to two of us in the company at the moment and we are hiring further sales people) would lead to protection under PIDA 1998? My back is today killing me after lifting the gear into the car, out again and wheeling it half a mile into a hospital.
0000 said:
Not sure if it's actually lawyers.
The reason I need legal advice is to help protect me by advising the best way I bring this to the attention of management as a problem.As I have not been there 2 years, I may be seen as a problem person and disposed of rather than the issue dealt with. I don't believe I have any unfair dismissal protection. If I bring it to their attention by way of a disclosure qualifying under Public Interest Disclosure Act they cannot fire me for that reason and, without any other reason, will have to act very carefully (there is no limit on damages in such cases).
The advice I need relates to whether it can be a qualifying disclosure under PIDA and, if so, how it needs to be worded to gain maximum protection (particularly with regard to the public interest element required).
Well, this took an interesting and swift turn yesterday.
For some time I had been scheduled to have an initial sales meeting yesterday with the new UK chief and the guy who's been shuffled across to sales manager (who I do not have a good relationship with). I was also due to collect some heavy kit for a trial today.
As planned, I drove down from Leeds to Sandhurst yesterday morning. The sales manager was not there. They let me load the kit, then work for three hours, before the UK chief and financial controller sat me down and said my work "was good", but they could not afford to keep me, as times are hard. I pointed out that I was making a profit, so their position did not make sense (I am also their only sales person). They fluffed about for a couple of minutes before thrusting a document in my face to sign offering 4 weeks pay as severance (my contract entitled me to one week), and they would give me a lift to the station.
A fairly frank discussion followed, mentioning their inaction regards my back troubles and their insistence on my lifting way beyond HSE guidelines. We compromised on 10 weeks salary in return for waiving right to any claims against them. This was a take it right now or get nothing agreement. Hopefully I won't have any long lasting back problems to make me regret signing it.
On a side note, they refused to make me redundant. Does anyone know the tax implications with regards settlement agreements?
For some time I had been scheduled to have an initial sales meeting yesterday with the new UK chief and the guy who's been shuffled across to sales manager (who I do not have a good relationship with). I was also due to collect some heavy kit for a trial today.
As planned, I drove down from Leeds to Sandhurst yesterday morning. The sales manager was not there. They let me load the kit, then work for three hours, before the UK chief and financial controller sat me down and said my work "was good", but they could not afford to keep me, as times are hard. I pointed out that I was making a profit, so their position did not make sense (I am also their only sales person). They fluffed about for a couple of minutes before thrusting a document in my face to sign offering 4 weeks pay as severance (my contract entitled me to one week), and they would give me a lift to the station.
A fairly frank discussion followed, mentioning their inaction regards my back troubles and their insistence on my lifting way beyond HSE guidelines. We compromised on 10 weeks salary in return for waiving right to any claims against them. This was a take it right now or get nothing agreement. Hopefully I won't have any long lasting back problems to make me regret signing it.
On a side note, they refused to make me redundant. Does anyone know the tax implications with regards settlement agreements?
spikeyhead said:
If ti was couched as a redundancy, then the first week of the ten is PILON and taxable as normal, the rest is tax free.
It's termed as full and final settlement equivalent to 2.5 months salary. They expressly refused redundancy as the paperwork is too onerous on them. My concern is that they're intending to pay it as normal payroll, which they say will be subject to tax and NI as normal, and that I'll have to claim back any tax from HMRC. Every penny will count whilst I look for another role and if possible I'd like the bulk of the amount paid gross.I totally agree that's what they intend, though it's not what they said.
I suspect the guy who took over running of the UK sales has a friend on mind for my old role.
It's all very frustrating, as the guy spent a year 'managing' the UK sales in 2012 and had to be taken off it, having being unable to keep hold of sales people and internal staff threatening to leave if he continued. I was expressly promised he wouldn't be reinstated to the role when the MD who hired me left.
Oh well, you live and you learn.
I'm hoping I can persuade them to pay me the one weeks notice through payroll as normal and the remaining £8000 or so direct to me as a settlement figure, as per our agreement.
I suspect the guy who took over running of the UK sales has a friend on mind for my old role.
It's all very frustrating, as the guy spent a year 'managing' the UK sales in 2012 and had to be taken off it, having being unable to keep hold of sales people and internal staff threatening to leave if he continued. I was expressly promised he wouldn't be reinstated to the role when the MD who hired me left.
Oh well, you live and you learn.
I'm hoping I can persuade them to pay me the one weeks notice through payroll as normal and the remaining £8000 or so direct to me as a settlement figure, as per our agreement.
Thanks Zeeky, that was my understanding. I've just got to figure out how to encourage them to do this (pay me the balance directly).
I'm presuming that whilst the agreement gives them no protection, as I was prevented from taking legal advice before signing, my settlement is protected. In other words they cannot renage on their obligations.
I'm presuming that whilst the agreement gives them no protection, as I was prevented from taking legal advice before signing, my settlement is protected. In other words they cannot renage on their obligations.
andy-xr said:
Dan, if it's a compromise agreement, you have to have legal advice on it, otherwise it's not valid for them. They should, but dont have to, pay for this - couple of hours with an employment solicitor who tells you everything you already know, then handles it with the company
You want the payment ex gratia, which isnt subject to income tax and all that. It's a helper outer payment, pay tax on your 1wk notice, and the rest without any deductions
I used Sara Frisby at Morgan Russell, really good. And helped in negotiations too
Hi Andy, that's my understanding. They caught me out unawares and I was told "take it now, or our layers will dispute everything and you'll get nothing". I don't want any more than we agreed at the time, but I do want the agreement to bind us both properly and the settlement to be paid as it should.You want the payment ex gratia, which isnt subject to income tax and all that. It's a helper outer payment, pay tax on your 1wk notice, and the rest without any deductions
I used Sara Frisby at Morgan Russell, really good. And helped in negotiations too
Zeeky said:
If the agreement itself is void then neither party can enforce it.
If the agreement covers both employment rights and PI then the PI part of the agreement should survive and you can enforce that part of the agreement.
The specialist advice I've taken is that my employer is not protected by the agreement, however I have common law rights to enforce the contract for my benefit (ie. The money). If the agreement covers both employment rights and PI then the PI part of the agreement should survive and you can enforce that part of the agreement.
Having spoken to them about this, my previous employer's response was 'we are not rewriting the agreement under any circumstances'. This leaves them committed to paying out but not protected from legal action later on. Which is an utterly bonkers point of view.
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