Facing a Disciplinary hearing. Help please
Discussion
Good evening all,
I have posted under a different name because I know some colleagues know my main account on here, and do not know what’s going on so would like to keep it that way, hence the new login. I have run into a bit of trouble with work recently, and I am currently facing a allegation of gross misconduct at a disciplinary hearing next week.
In short, I don’t really mind because I have recently accepted a new job which my employers have found out about. This act of gross misconduct happened last year, and is purely being used against me so I am dismissed and thus can’t use my company car as this is my managers way of getting back at me (I will come onto this later).
But in detail so you can understand my problem (sorry, it is a bit long winded, war and peace stuff).
It is alleged that in October 2013, I authorised a payment through the company higher than sign off limit. For arguments sake, this is true. It was a rebate to a customer which my manager had forgotten to pay, and was on annual leave when I made this transaction. As a company, we faced a situation of either pay this rebate of £6,000, or loose an account worth over half a million pounds worth of revenue a year. Easy decision to make being a company man. Technically however, my sign off limit is only £5,000 so strictly speaking aren’t allowed to authorise. It is worth point out here that upon my manager return, he was grateful that I sorted this so we didn’t loose a big client. That was the end of that, or so I thought.
I have recently been looking for a new job as I just don’t like some parts of the company any more. I have been offered a job with a competitor which I have accepted. This was only last week. When I accepted the role, it was over dinner with my new employees. However, a colleague saw me having dinner with them and must of known what this meant.
The next day I was emailed requesting a meeting with my manager. I go into this meeting, and to keep it short, either told to stay in my current job with them, or face the consequences. At this point I have still not handed in my notice, nor told them I have accepted another offer, they have just assumed. I chose the latter after basically walking straight out of that office.
Today, I was called into our boardroom to find 2 HR reps and my line manager. “It has come to light I autorised a transaction in October 2013 above my sign off limit and I am facing an allegation of gross misconduct conduct”. I have a hearing on Tuesday. I was given a pack with a letter and lots of witness statements, evidence etc., and as previously stated, technically I can be dismissed from this as it was a breach of policy despite being congratulated for doing so, and in the companies best interest.
Now any other time of the year, I would just walk now and be done with it, however, I am going on holiday on Wednesday, and am taking my company car to Spain. If I am dismissed on Tuesday, this would wreck my holiday as I would have no car.
Under my rights, I can postpone a hearing for up to 5 working days later if I cannot find a trade rep in that time. This is what I think is the best corse of action to at least get me past Wednesday, and I will already be in Spain. Now my question is, would this work, or can I not postpone full well knowing I can’t attend the rearranged date.
In all honesty, I think in the eyes of the court at a tribunal, I am being pretty harshly done by. However I don’t want to go down that route as I just want to get gone of my old company and wipe my hands of them.
As an alternative, if I were to hand in my notice on Monday, could I still be dismissed, or just take my months notice period and keep my job perks?
And as yet another alternative, and I hate to suggest this as I’m not one to pull sickies or anything; but I played football after work today and have sprained my ankle. I’m pretty sure I could get signed off for a few days, thus missing the hearing due to illness. Would this be an option?
As I said, sorry about the war and peace; just super stress about this as I have a very busy holiday planned,
I have posted under a different name because I know some colleagues know my main account on here, and do not know what’s going on so would like to keep it that way, hence the new login. I have run into a bit of trouble with work recently, and I am currently facing a allegation of gross misconduct at a disciplinary hearing next week.
In short, I don’t really mind because I have recently accepted a new job which my employers have found out about. This act of gross misconduct happened last year, and is purely being used against me so I am dismissed and thus can’t use my company car as this is my managers way of getting back at me (I will come onto this later).
But in detail so you can understand my problem (sorry, it is a bit long winded, war and peace stuff).
It is alleged that in October 2013, I authorised a payment through the company higher than sign off limit. For arguments sake, this is true. It was a rebate to a customer which my manager had forgotten to pay, and was on annual leave when I made this transaction. As a company, we faced a situation of either pay this rebate of £6,000, or loose an account worth over half a million pounds worth of revenue a year. Easy decision to make being a company man. Technically however, my sign off limit is only £5,000 so strictly speaking aren’t allowed to authorise. It is worth point out here that upon my manager return, he was grateful that I sorted this so we didn’t loose a big client. That was the end of that, or so I thought.
I have recently been looking for a new job as I just don’t like some parts of the company any more. I have been offered a job with a competitor which I have accepted. This was only last week. When I accepted the role, it was over dinner with my new employees. However, a colleague saw me having dinner with them and must of known what this meant.
The next day I was emailed requesting a meeting with my manager. I go into this meeting, and to keep it short, either told to stay in my current job with them, or face the consequences. At this point I have still not handed in my notice, nor told them I have accepted another offer, they have just assumed. I chose the latter after basically walking straight out of that office.
Today, I was called into our boardroom to find 2 HR reps and my line manager. “It has come to light I autorised a transaction in October 2013 above my sign off limit and I am facing an allegation of gross misconduct conduct”. I have a hearing on Tuesday. I was given a pack with a letter and lots of witness statements, evidence etc., and as previously stated, technically I can be dismissed from this as it was a breach of policy despite being congratulated for doing so, and in the companies best interest.
Now any other time of the year, I would just walk now and be done with it, however, I am going on holiday on Wednesday, and am taking my company car to Spain. If I am dismissed on Tuesday, this would wreck my holiday as I would have no car.
Under my rights, I can postpone a hearing for up to 5 working days later if I cannot find a trade rep in that time. This is what I think is the best corse of action to at least get me past Wednesday, and I will already be in Spain. Now my question is, would this work, or can I not postpone full well knowing I can’t attend the rearranged date.
In all honesty, I think in the eyes of the court at a tribunal, I am being pretty harshly done by. However I don’t want to go down that route as I just want to get gone of my old company and wipe my hands of them.
As an alternative, if I were to hand in my notice on Monday, could I still be dismissed, or just take my months notice period and keep my job perks?
And as yet another alternative, and I hate to suggest this as I’m not one to pull sickies or anything; but I played football after work today and have sprained my ankle. I’m pretty sure I could get signed off for a few days, thus missing the hearing due to illness. Would this be an option?
As I said, sorry about the war and peace; just super stress about this as I have a very busy holiday planned,
Edited by StrippyShirts on Friday 8th August 22:07
Mojooo said:
Go sick or as you say use the TU route.
Just hope they dont report the car as stolen while you are gone - which they wont if they are a big car.
This has crossed my mind, but again, in a court of law they will struggle for to hold up.Just hope they dont report the car as stolen while you are gone - which they wont if they are a big car.
The verb steal is defined at "to take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it."
I have a signed letter from two company directors stating that I can take the vehicle abroad and said dates so have the permission. In terms of not intending to return, at time of departing for holiday, I just thought it was still my company car and thought nothing else of it.
parabolica said:
How long have you been employed by your current company OP?
I've been there 5 years. It's a proper kick in the teeth. I've played Golf with the bloke numerous times; who takes something this personal?I plan to be straight on the phone on Monday morning to my new manager and let him know what's going on. Ideally they might say I can start straight away and have a spare car on fleet.
If one were to take sick leave, what the usual process, can't remember the last time I was off ill! Do you need a doctors note if you're off more than a day or something.
Right, thought I'd update you all.
So on the Monday spoke to new employers who were quite understanding. The recruiting manager said not to worry about a reference as I'm well known within our industry so I'm safe and sound there.
In regards to my current employers...
Sent a letter in for Monday stating I wish to postpone the hearing until after my annual leave because my union rep wasn't available until next week, and I'm then not available.
Had a phone call from HR before 10am saying they need to know my union rep details, all my union details, and if I could provide that by 1pm they could postpone until Monday 18th. Because I was working and not at home, didn't have union card so just logged onto my account, got an email from my rep saying I'm a member. Company wouldn't accept this so meeting was due to continue on Tuesday.
Spoke to my union; he said just to send a letter on Monday night with my Union card in the post and send it to them. That will be enough an if they continue the hearing despite receiving that they will be breeching my statutory rights. I wrote in the letter he will be attending next week in my absence with a 5,000 word document I've typed up with some pretty lengthy stuff to fight my case.
I went out last night for a curry which has got my stomach playing up so sadly couldn't go in today and had to take a sick day. I spoke to manager's PA as he didn't answer his mobile. Had 47 missed calls today, 32 of which from the office. Car is packed, ready to depart at 9am in the morning.
I will deal with repercussions on my return, but after not having a day off since September last year except bank holidays and weekends, I cannot afford to miss this holiday as I am burnt out.
Only worry now is if I was dismissed today, would they have reported my car as stolen. No no, lets stay positive. Spain here I come!
So on the Monday spoke to new employers who were quite understanding. The recruiting manager said not to worry about a reference as I'm well known within our industry so I'm safe and sound there.
In regards to my current employers...
Sent a letter in for Monday stating I wish to postpone the hearing until after my annual leave because my union rep wasn't available until next week, and I'm then not available.
Had a phone call from HR before 10am saying they need to know my union rep details, all my union details, and if I could provide that by 1pm they could postpone until Monday 18th. Because I was working and not at home, didn't have union card so just logged onto my account, got an email from my rep saying I'm a member. Company wouldn't accept this so meeting was due to continue on Tuesday.
Spoke to my union; he said just to send a letter on Monday night with my Union card in the post and send it to them. That will be enough an if they continue the hearing despite receiving that they will be breeching my statutory rights. I wrote in the letter he will be attending next week in my absence with a 5,000 word document I've typed up with some pretty lengthy stuff to fight my case.
I went out last night for a curry which has got my stomach playing up so sadly couldn't go in today and had to take a sick day. I spoke to manager's PA as he didn't answer his mobile. Had 47 missed calls today, 32 of which from the office. Car is packed, ready to depart at 9am in the morning.
I will deal with repercussions on my return, but after not having a day off since September last year except bank holidays and weekends, I cannot afford to miss this holiday as I am burnt out.
Only worry now is if I was dismissed today, would they have reported my car as stolen. No no, lets stay positive. Spain here I come!
Just to update everyone on what happened. You couldn't make this stuff up.
So I try to fill the car up just before Folkstone. I tried to used my fuel card, and it was declined after 3 attempts. I just paid for the fuel on my credit card. I guess they thought this would stop me.
Get a few missed calls from my old boss, decide to just block the number as want to relax.
The following day, I get a phone call from my brother who is down as emergency contact through work. He said my work have contacted him asking do they know where I am, as they can't get hold of me. They told him that they are worried I'm driving the car uninsured as I've gone on the wrong dates. He told them I was already abroad not knowing anything different. How ridiculous is it they called him?
Decided I best make contact to sort it out heaven forbid something happens to the car. Call my boss; and he told I need to return home immediately and I wasn't insured as I've taken the car abroad without permission. (At this point, I did not know the outcome of the disciplinary hearing).
Send him an email with a form he, and HR have signed authorising the car abroad on said dates, so I'm fine. Block his number again as didn't want any more hassle.
Get a call later that day from my neighbour, saying there have been people looking through my window at my house, parked outside, trying the doorbell etc. She went and asked if she could help and they were trying to hand deliver a letter to me. She also told them I'm away at the moment, but said she'd take it on my behalf. I asked her if it'd be possible to open it, and send me over a copy of it, apologising for the hassle and slightly embarrassed about the contents.
At this point, I am now in Spain. I looked at the letter on my email, and confirmed I have been dismissed without notice, and must return all company property, including car, fuel car, laptop, phone etc.
Send a polite email to my manager, saying I have just read the contents of the letter, but the car is now in Spain as you didn't tell me I had been dismissed when we spoke earlier. Basically say, but a bit more politely, I can either leave the car on the side of the road in the middle of Spain and post the keys back to you to then go and find the car, or you can insure it as I'm no longer covered as I'm not an employee, and I will return it as originally agreed.
Get an phone call the next day from our HR Director, reluctantly asking whereabouts in Spain, and what dates I'd be in other countries for insurance purposes. I can hear how annoyed he sounds.
Get back yesterday, and have a text from my manager saying can I return the car for midday today.
Only just replied now saying the car is on the grass outside my house, and told them the location of the key. I am not driving it on my time as I'm now not employed by them.
At the moment, it's now 4pm and no ones picked it up yet. And best news is I had a nice Thrifty car turn up today from my new employers until my proper permanent car arrives.
So what a saga. All for a car. In reference to some people saying why didn't I just rent a car, firstly, nothing decent I could get at late notice, and secondly, and properly most importantly for me, it would be accepting defeating and letting them get what they want.
On another note, no rain for 2 and a bit weeks. 35 degree heat. Very nice, relaxing break once everything was sorted.
So I try to fill the car up just before Folkstone. I tried to used my fuel card, and it was declined after 3 attempts. I just paid for the fuel on my credit card. I guess they thought this would stop me.
Get a few missed calls from my old boss, decide to just block the number as want to relax.
The following day, I get a phone call from my brother who is down as emergency contact through work. He said my work have contacted him asking do they know where I am, as they can't get hold of me. They told him that they are worried I'm driving the car uninsured as I've gone on the wrong dates. He told them I was already abroad not knowing anything different. How ridiculous is it they called him?
Decided I best make contact to sort it out heaven forbid something happens to the car. Call my boss; and he told I need to return home immediately and I wasn't insured as I've taken the car abroad without permission. (At this point, I did not know the outcome of the disciplinary hearing).
Send him an email with a form he, and HR have signed authorising the car abroad on said dates, so I'm fine. Block his number again as didn't want any more hassle.
Get a call later that day from my neighbour, saying there have been people looking through my window at my house, parked outside, trying the doorbell etc. She went and asked if she could help and they were trying to hand deliver a letter to me. She also told them I'm away at the moment, but said she'd take it on my behalf. I asked her if it'd be possible to open it, and send me over a copy of it, apologising for the hassle and slightly embarrassed about the contents.
At this point, I am now in Spain. I looked at the letter on my email, and confirmed I have been dismissed without notice, and must return all company property, including car, fuel car, laptop, phone etc.
Send a polite email to my manager, saying I have just read the contents of the letter, but the car is now in Spain as you didn't tell me I had been dismissed when we spoke earlier. Basically say, but a bit more politely, I can either leave the car on the side of the road in the middle of Spain and post the keys back to you to then go and find the car, or you can insure it as I'm no longer covered as I'm not an employee, and I will return it as originally agreed.
Get an phone call the next day from our HR Director, reluctantly asking whereabouts in Spain, and what dates I'd be in other countries for insurance purposes. I can hear how annoyed he sounds.
Get back yesterday, and have a text from my manager saying can I return the car for midday today.
Only just replied now saying the car is on the grass outside my house, and told them the location of the key. I am not driving it on my time as I'm now not employed by them.
At the moment, it's now 4pm and no ones picked it up yet. And best news is I had a nice Thrifty car turn up today from my new employers until my proper permanent car arrives.
So what a saga. All for a car. In reference to some people saying why didn't I just rent a car, firstly, nothing decent I could get at late notice, and secondly, and properly most importantly for me, it would be accepting defeating and letting them get what they want.
On another note, no rain for 2 and a bit weeks. 35 degree heat. Very nice, relaxing break once everything was sorted.
HereBeMonsters said:
Are you sure you're not being fired for numerous spelling and grammar errors?
Apologies.HenryJM said:
Are you going to appeal?
Two minds about it. Now I'm back I'll get some proper, legal advice. It is to my understanding, that an appeal will only be able to reinstate with my old role, which I don't want to do as I'll be starting at the new place this week.The stress and hassle of a tribunal will be long winded, and I don't want to come across to my new employers as someone who does, as usually I'm hassle free. This was just all off the chart mental.
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