Problem at work
Discussion
So today I get the news that I have broken a HR rule and will be facing a disciplinary and possibly the sack!
As background, I work for a large company (for 20 years) and manage a small (sub 30) team of roughly 70/30 women to men. Of late we've hired a couple of attractive women (stunners) and I have therefore enforced the dress code more rigorously which is business casual.
Given the attractiveness I asked the ladies to wear skirts etc to brighten up the office which most were happy to go along with. For some reason colleague A ( let's say you will not be surprised to know she is a pig dog) refused and pointed out this wasn't the dress code. To be fair it isn't but is my version of.
Anyway things settle down but standards slipped so I've pushed the code more of late. Shortish skirts and no flat shoes.
All are ok with this new push on standards with the exception of pig dog who has reported me to HR and the Union!
Long story short HR had me in for a chat and have said I've broken various regulations. I couldn't deny it as I have 20 women who will say I've put the policy in place. 95% of them were happy with the policy and I've had comments from other departments on how smart we are looking. In hind site mainly from men.
So, given I can't deny what I've done, any tips on how to handle this. Surely this can't be a stackable offence? It's PC ,madness!
As background, I work for a large company (for 20 years) and manage a small (sub 30) team of roughly 70/30 women to men. Of late we've hired a couple of attractive women (stunners) and I have therefore enforced the dress code more rigorously which is business casual.
Given the attractiveness I asked the ladies to wear skirts etc to brighten up the office which most were happy to go along with. For some reason colleague A ( let's say you will not be surprised to know she is a pig dog) refused and pointed out this wasn't the dress code. To be fair it isn't but is my version of.
Anyway things settle down but standards slipped so I've pushed the code more of late. Shortish skirts and no flat shoes.
All are ok with this new push on standards with the exception of pig dog who has reported me to HR and the Union!
Long story short HR had me in for a chat and have said I've broken various regulations. I couldn't deny it as I have 20 women who will say I've put the policy in place. 95% of them were happy with the policy and I've had comments from other departments on how smart we are looking. In hind site mainly from men.
So, given I can't deny what I've done, any tips on how to handle this. Surely this can't be a stackable offence? It's PC ,madness!
Maybe I'm just explaining this badly, it's been a long day. I wouldn't have sacked them for non compliance.
It was a code that we aspired to and most were ok with this. If they were not happy they could say no and that would have been it. Reporting it to HR and the Union is not on.
I've had a number of calls from colleagues who can't believe whats happened.
Thanks for the input though and I guess the pig dog comment is a little off....I'm just slightly bitter
It was a code that we aspired to and most were ok with this. If they were not happy they could say no and that would have been it. Reporting it to HR and the Union is not on.
I've had a number of calls from colleagues who can't believe whats happened.
Thanks for the input though and I guess the pig dog comment is a little off....I'm just slightly bitter
Trousers at a push. Like I said if they didn't want to adopt the dress code then that was ok.
If you worked somewhere and the uniform was provided would you get to specify the length of skirt? Maybe you get the choice of trousers but could you choose the skirt length?
All I was trying to do was bring in some standards and uniformity and admittedly giving the chance for the stunners to shine!
If you worked somewhere and the uniform was provided would you get to specify the length of skirt? Maybe you get the choice of trousers but could you choose the skirt length?
All I was trying to do was bring in some standards and uniformity and admittedly giving the chance for the stunners to shine!
Firstly, I'm embarrassed by the word pig dog and do apologies for its use. I was at the end of my teather yesterday. Some of the other stuff was an attempt to make light of what is looking like a sacking. I have a mortgage etc like most of you so need the job really for now.
Thanks to all for the comments both humerous and serious.
A bit more background as it reads worse than it is I think, but again comments welcome.
More background.
Most people in my team have worked for me for 10 years or more and we socialise quite a bit together. On an annual basis we have a social trip away for a long weekend. This is paid for by us personally and not a work thing. Hard to believe but people like me.
The team has a good reputation both for work quality and hitting the balance of having a laugh and as such people want to work for me.....I get loads of applicants to jobs on the boards.
The work dress code is a shambles and does not foster a professional environment. You can wear wear jumpers and chinos!
Mitigating factors when I face HR
I implemented a dress code for BOTH women and men.
For men this was suits including ties and smart shoes (not smart boots )which everyone adopted.
For women this was skirts, knee length business and non flat shoes but really this was not sandal type stuff
The above was discussed and agreed I a team meeting
There was no come back if people didn't adopt the policy
When standards slipped, I reminded them of the dress code and they smarted up again but colleague A reported me to HR and the union without expressing any concern to me first.....that's what I'm annoyed about.
I have been contacted by most of the team who don't know why I'm now absent and have had loads of support. I have not told them colleague A has reported me as that's unfair on her but they know it's dress code related. They are happy to say they supported this code.
Anyway sorry for the long post and based on comments I guess I'm stuffed. HR were clear I'm in the mire.
Thanks to all for the comments both humerous and serious.
A bit more background as it reads worse than it is I think, but again comments welcome.
More background.
Most people in my team have worked for me for 10 years or more and we socialise quite a bit together. On an annual basis we have a social trip away for a long weekend. This is paid for by us personally and not a work thing. Hard to believe but people like me.
The team has a good reputation both for work quality and hitting the balance of having a laugh and as such people want to work for me.....I get loads of applicants to jobs on the boards.
The work dress code is a shambles and does not foster a professional environment. You can wear wear jumpers and chinos!
Mitigating factors when I face HR
I implemented a dress code for BOTH women and men.
For men this was suits including ties and smart shoes (not smart boots )which everyone adopted.
For women this was skirts, knee length business and non flat shoes but really this was not sandal type stuff
The above was discussed and agreed I a team meeting
There was no come back if people didn't adopt the policy
When standards slipped, I reminded them of the dress code and they smarted up again but colleague A reported me to HR and the union without expressing any concern to me first.....that's what I'm annoyed about.
I have been contacted by most of the team who don't know why I'm now absent and have had loads of support. I have not told them colleague A has reported me as that's unfair on her but they know it's dress code related. They are happy to say they supported this code.
Anyway sorry for the long post and based on comments I guess I'm stuffed. HR were clear I'm in the mire.
She didn't like the dress code and could have said to me and that would have been fine. She is happy to work with and input into how we shape our working lives. This is a big driver in the team. I get she felt awkward over this but a chat would have helped.
We bend other policies eg I allow them all more wfh days if they want. It's not just this. I can't believe everyone sticks to the letter of the law at work? Yes for customers policies but team related?
We bend other policies eg I allow them all more wfh days if they want. It's not just this. I can't believe everyone sticks to the letter of the law at work? Yes for customers policies but team related?
Unofficial dress code in place for 5 or so years. Like anything it needs a few reminders here and there. All the new team members knew we had it and applied for the role anyway as they wanted to be in the team.
To further clarify short skirt isn't short as such, more knee length and not the maxi floor hugging stuff you see. That wouldn't be allowed anyway under the official policy. I don't actually get the tape measure out before anyone asks!
I'm not allowed to contact work colleagues (and have not replied to texts) and they are aware they shouldn't contact me but since yesterday;
23 out of 29 team members have expressed support to me via text. I think 3 are on holiday so wouldn't know
I've been told that this morning all the team are dressed as they usually do. Colleague A is wearing a summer dress.
My manager has asked me to help with some work on the quiet. I am doing but suspect I shouldn't
Colleague A has also sent me a pretty lengthy mail to explain that she didn't like the policy but didn't think HR would take it as they have. She hasn't told the Union as previously advised. She has asked HR to forget it but understandably they can't now.
HR are speaking to colleagues today so I guess that will form a view.
To further clarify short skirt isn't short as such, more knee length and not the maxi floor hugging stuff you see. That wouldn't be allowed anyway under the official policy. I don't actually get the tape measure out before anyone asks!
I'm not allowed to contact work colleagues (and have not replied to texts) and they are aware they shouldn't contact me but since yesterday;
23 out of 29 team members have expressed support to me via text. I think 3 are on holiday so wouldn't know
I've been told that this morning all the team are dressed as they usually do. Colleague A is wearing a summer dress.
My manager has asked me to help with some work on the quiet. I am doing but suspect I shouldn't
Colleague A has also sent me a pretty lengthy mail to explain that she didn't like the policy but didn't think HR would take it as they have. She hasn't told the Union as previously advised. She has asked HR to forget it but understandably they can't now.
HR are speaking to colleagues today so I guess that will form a view.
A summer dress is not the work dress code but she does wear these and looks smart so that is fine by me. I'm happy to flex work dress code provided people are smart. I do not like the idea of jumpers etc in the office.
I appreciate all the comments and will bow out now as I think I'm clear that I'm out of step. I would say that what's written and what's happening in real life (attitudes, experience, humour) does not come over. I am pretty confident that most if not all colleagues are happy with working for me including colleague A.
I appreciate that I am going to get the sack or at best be given an exit on mutual grounds.
Thanks all again. I respect your input.
I appreciate all the comments and will bow out now as I think I'm clear that I'm out of step. I would say that what's written and what's happening in real life (attitudes, experience, humour) does not come over. I am pretty confident that most if not all colleagues are happy with working for me including colleague A.
I appreciate that I am going to get the sack or at best be given an exit on mutual grounds.
Thanks all again. I respect your input.
I am the manager of a team of 30. I have a manger who I report into. He has never had an issue with it but wouldn't look that closely at how it came about. The blame is mine.
The dress code is for men and women though not the same.... Suits and ties for men and skirts for women. I say short skirts but I mean not long (the floor trailing ones)
The code was discussed and agreed by my team at the time. This is different now with c 10 people changing since it came in.
The code I implemented was based on a staff members suggestion initially.
I know I'm in the wrong but bar for one colleague who has apologised again now via voicemail (it's not her fault) the team environment works for the team and we constantly get loads wanting to join. I get no leavers other than upward promotion.
I can see why I'm copping flack. I guess I deserve that but if I end up out of work and on the street the warm glow of satisfaction from the PH crew will not keep my 9 year old warm.
Thanks to everyone who have posted and for those with constructive advice.
Please don't take the above as me shirking my position in this. I know it's of my making but you do need to see this in the full context.
Ps colleague has again advised HR in the 1-1 that they are making too much out of this. Fingers crossed that helps a little.
The dress code is for men and women though not the same.... Suits and ties for men and skirts for women. I say short skirts but I mean not long (the floor trailing ones)
The code was discussed and agreed by my team at the time. This is different now with c 10 people changing since it came in.
The code I implemented was based on a staff members suggestion initially.
I know I'm in the wrong but bar for one colleague who has apologised again now via voicemail (it's not her fault) the team environment works for the team and we constantly get loads wanting to join. I get no leavers other than upward promotion.
I can see why I'm copping flack. I guess I deserve that but if I end up out of work and on the street the warm glow of satisfaction from the PH crew will not keep my 9 year old warm.
Thanks to everyone who have posted and for those with constructive advice.
Please don't take the above as me shirking my position in this. I know it's of my making but you do need to see this in the full context.
Ps colleague has again advised HR in the 1-1 that they are making too much out of this. Fingers crossed that helps a little.
I'll stop posting now but will update next week once I get the outcome. I hate it when there is no end to a thread.
My initial posts were written in a slightly drunken state and also at a time when I felt angry at what I sensed was a betrayal of friendship from someone.
I was also trying to make light of what I knew was a pretty serious situation as a coping mechanism.
In the cold light of day not great.
Anyway judge me on my latter posts
Thanks all
My initial posts were written in a slightly drunken state and also at a time when I felt angry at what I sensed was a betrayal of friendship from someone.
I was also trying to make light of what I knew was a pretty serious situation as a coping mechanism.
In the cold light of day not great.
Anyway judge me on my latter posts
Thanks all
So final update to this. Quicker than I thought but a relief really.
Following HR discussions with the team and myself they have given me a formal warning and some training requirements.
Additional background that has come out over the last few hours.
Colleague A did not directly complain about the dress code. She asked HR for a view on what the company code was and during discussion on the formal work code they expressed their concern and took proceedings from there.
Colleague A at the time and during discussions with HR said she wasn't unduly concerned by the code but had wanted to talk to me with an understanding of the company code. I will need to speak to her as obviously she is not happy over this. Obviously my code will go and the team can revert to the company code.
Colleague A has saved my job which I suspect a decent majority on here feel I should have lost.
One thing I don't think I mentioned previously. I'm in the process of setting up a new team and Colleague A applied for a role (sideways move) with me so it is probably reasonable to think she is generally happy with how I manage a team?
I'm not going to defend the dress code thing but I'm still in the camp that we are a high performing team because of how we operate on a number of fronts.
Couple of points to finish
Firstly my comments in the first post were not acceptable and embarrassing/disrespectful
Secondly thanks to all who have provided input
Following HR discussions with the team and myself they have given me a formal warning and some training requirements.
Additional background that has come out over the last few hours.
Colleague A did not directly complain about the dress code. She asked HR for a view on what the company code was and during discussion on the formal work code they expressed their concern and took proceedings from there.
Colleague A at the time and during discussions with HR said she wasn't unduly concerned by the code but had wanted to talk to me with an understanding of the company code. I will need to speak to her as obviously she is not happy over this. Obviously my code will go and the team can revert to the company code.
Colleague A has saved my job which I suspect a decent majority on here feel I should have lost.
One thing I don't think I mentioned previously. I'm in the process of setting up a new team and Colleague A applied for a role (sideways move) with me so it is probably reasonable to think she is generally happy with how I manage a team?
I'm not going to defend the dress code thing but I'm still in the camp that we are a high performing team because of how we operate on a number of fronts.
Couple of points to finish
Firstly my comments in the first post were not acceptable and embarrassing/disrespectful
Secondly thanks to all who have provided input
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