Getting into Project Management
Discussion
I had a thread here a little while ago that discussed project management and prince2. A lot of excellent advice was given on that thread which I appreciate.
As I've completed my foundation for prince2 and also have ITIL foundation, I'm wondering how to get into a PM role. Not really expecting to get straight into a senior role so am looking for a junior pm role.
What's the best way of actually getting my fit in through the door.
As I've completed my foundation for prince2 and also have ITIL foundation, I'm wondering how to get into a PM role. Not really expecting to get straight into a senior role so am looking for a junior pm role.
What's the best way of actually getting my fit in through the door.
Origin Unknown said:
It's a tricky one. When I've interviewed PM's, Junior PM's and PCO's, I would never take on someone with zero experience. Too much risk. A key measure for me is for someone to demonstrate their capability with a real world examples. And not every project on time, on budget with the required quality. Those people are liars.
Are there any opportunities within your current role to project manage something? Anything, build of something, delivery of an event of some sort? You could position this as I have some certs I'm looking to build on and would like to oversee the the delivery of X. Depends on how much you want to make the move, if you're hitting blockers, offer to run it in your own time as well without impacting your day job.
Anything where you can develop your skills and work out what works and what doesn't. A PRINCE2 cert isn't going to make you a successful PM, that's just to get you past the recruiter. And to a lesser degree, it'll give you some tools in your toolbox. What you need is real exposure to the realities of running projects and good stories around how you have developed an ability to assure delivery through experience.
Thank for this information.Are there any opportunities within your current role to project manage something? Anything, build of something, delivery of an event of some sort? You could position this as I have some certs I'm looking to build on and would like to oversee the the delivery of X. Depends on how much you want to make the move, if you're hitting blockers, offer to run it in your own time as well without impacting your day job.
Anything where you can develop your skills and work out what works and what doesn't. A PRINCE2 cert isn't going to make you a successful PM, that's just to get you past the recruiter. And to a lesser degree, it'll give you some tools in your toolbox. What you need is real exposure to the realities of running projects and good stories around how you have developed an ability to assure delivery through experience.
I've been a part of some projects so do have the experience of providing IT kit and services within a set budget/time but no actual Project Management job title experience, IYSWIM?
In regards to working in my current role, things weren't good there so I no longer work for the company. Fresh mind and all that.
TTmonkey said:
Can you make false promises?
Lie through your teeth?
Promise the Earth and deliver little?
Shout and scream like a possessed spoilt child?
Ask for opinions and advise and then decide you know the best answer?
Listen but not hear anything?
Keep a straight face in front of your customer?
Ignore obviously better qualified opinion?
Manipulate test data to suit your purpose?
Then you too my friend can successfully deliver projects in big IT....
Excellent. Where do I find me one of them roles? Lie through your teeth?
Promise the Earth and deliver little?
Shout and scream like a possessed spoilt child?
Ask for opinions and advise and then decide you know the best answer?
Listen but not hear anything?
Keep a straight face in front of your customer?
Ignore obviously better qualified opinion?
Manipulate test data to suit your purpose?
Then you too my friend can successfully deliver projects in big IT....
It's been a while since an update was in order but a few things have happened.
I lost my previous job. Tried to find a Junior PM role, went to some interviews, got through to final stages, flopped on the 'not enough experience' grounds.
Found a job as a Mobile Support Specialist (the company seemed keen to take me on) right net to the Gherkin, worked there for 5 and a half days, got released as they said they a) Couldn't afford to keep me and b) My personality clashed with others. Not sure who but I'm pretty sure I kept my head down and got on with it for days I was there.
The week I was there taught me two lessons. I'm not a fan of Tech Support anymore and I still hate the commute to and from London.
So, back to plan A.
How do I get into Project Management?
I lost my previous job. Tried to find a Junior PM role, went to some interviews, got through to final stages, flopped on the 'not enough experience' grounds.
Found a job as a Mobile Support Specialist (the company seemed keen to take me on) right net to the Gherkin, worked there for 5 and a half days, got released as they said they a) Couldn't afford to keep me and b) My personality clashed with others. Not sure who but I'm pretty sure I kept my head down and got on with it for days I was there.
The week I was there taught me two lessons. I'm not a fan of Tech Support anymore and I still hate the commute to and from London.
So, back to plan A.
How do I get into Project Management?
The military is completely out of the question for me but thanks for the info.
Looks like it's a steep hill ahead for me to get into a role. Having had a look online there doesn't seem to be much in the way of entry level work even though I've had some basic exposure to projects. Unless I'm not looking on the right job sites.
Looks like it's a steep hill ahead for me to get into a role. Having had a look online there doesn't seem to be much in the way of entry level work even though I've had some basic exposure to projects. Unless I'm not looking on the right job sites.
Over three months on and still looking.
Experience seems to be killing me so I've resorted to working for free to obtain these from a friend of a friend who needed someone for a few months to take care of a handful of projects.
I've learnt a bit but not really anything different to what I already know. Seems a bit of a faff sometimes when trying to get certain stages moving or organising for the manpower to complete said stage.
The thing I seem to be seeing quite a bit is the need for 2+ years of experience. How the bloody hell is it obtained in the first place if no one is willing to give you a shot?
Sorry for the mini rant but just had a look at my bank balance.
Experience seems to be killing me so I've resorted to working for free to obtain these from a friend of a friend who needed someone for a few months to take care of a handful of projects.
I've learnt a bit but not really anything different to what I already know. Seems a bit of a faff sometimes when trying to get certain stages moving or organising for the manpower to complete said stage.
The thing I seem to be seeing quite a bit is the need for 2+ years of experience. How the bloody hell is it obtained in the first place if no one is willing to give you a shot?
Sorry for the mini rant but just had a look at my bank balance.
GT03ROB said:
TotalControl said:
Over three months on and still looking.
Experience seems to be killing me so I've resorted to working for free to obtain these from a friend of a friend who needed someone for a few months to take care of a handful of projects.
I've learnt a bit but not really anything different to what I already know. Seems a bit of a faff sometimes when trying to get certain stages moving or organising for the manpower to complete said stage.
The thing I seem to be seeing quite a bit is the need for 2+ years of experience. How the bloody hell is it obtained in the first place if no one is willing to give you a shot?
Sorry for the mini rant but just had a look at my bank balance.
I'll take you back to the comment I made earlier. If you are looking solely at PM jobs, I believe you will fail. you need to look for jobs (not PM) that will enable you to demonstrate you have the necessary skills, get in the company then move up. I have 5 PMs working for me, I currently have to replace 2 of them, I don't have the flexibility to have somebody learn on the job. I only want experience. PM without experience is nothing. This may sound harsh, but it is reality. Experience seems to be killing me so I've resorted to working for free to obtain these from a friend of a friend who needed someone for a few months to take care of a handful of projects.
I've learnt a bit but not really anything different to what I already know. Seems a bit of a faff sometimes when trying to get certain stages moving or organising for the manpower to complete said stage.
The thing I seem to be seeing quite a bit is the need for 2+ years of experience. How the bloody hell is it obtained in the first place if no one is willing to give you a shot?
Sorry for the mini rant but just had a look at my bank balance.
Onwards and upwards and forwards and something.
Worked for free for 5 months. A friend of a friend took me on to give me some valuable experience I lacked. I applied for more jobs. Got interviews. Still nothing. Same issue of inexperience.
So... going to work for free for another 3 months to gain some more experience with another company. Hopefully I’ll learn a lot more as the projects are bigger and more integral.
After the 3 months, I'll take some time out to do my Practitioner as I would have saved up some money by then.
I seriously hope this is worth it. I'm bloody drained giving all this free work away.
Worked for free for 5 months. A friend of a friend took me on to give me some valuable experience I lacked. I applied for more jobs. Got interviews. Still nothing. Same issue of inexperience.
So... going to work for free for another 3 months to gain some more experience with another company. Hopefully I’ll learn a lot more as the projects are bigger and more integral.
After the 3 months, I'll take some time out to do my Practitioner as I would have saved up some money by then.
I seriously hope this is worth it. I'm bloody drained giving all this free work away.
Definitely enjoying it.
In regards to my CV being tailored, already done it. Any project relevance I have had previously has been added and obviously not lying to make me look I can do the work. Initially, this placement is for 3 months so I'll see how this goes.
I asked at this company previously and they said no. Ask to work for free and they welcomed me with open arms.
In regards to my CV being tailored, already done it. Any project relevance I have had previously has been added and obviously not lying to make me look I can do the work. Initially, this placement is for 3 months so I'll see how this goes.
I asked at this company previously and they said no. Ask to work for free and they welcomed me with open arms.
A little update for anyone who still cares. 
The company offered me a 2 month contract to see through a current project being worked on that has been flagged as a priority. This will luckily take me up to the end of December.
I have been there 2 and a half months now in which time I have coordinated 2 projects and managed one myself. Pretty good and something that will maybe look good on my CV.
After this, Practitioner really is a must.
The company offered me a 2 month contract to see through a current project being worked on that has been flagged as a priority. This will luckily take me up to the end of December.
I have been there 2 and a half months now in which time I have coordinated 2 projects and managed one myself. Pretty good and something that will maybe look good on my CV.
After this, Practitioner really is a must.
Well, my time with company X is up and truth be told, it was really enjoyable. Really nice people to work with who appreciated and respected my reasoning for joining.
A lot more has been learnt. Exposure to creating plans, using MS Project, delivering as per deadlines agreements were all excellent experiences and hopefully will come in handy later on.
One thing I will say though, I have learnt so much more getting my hands dirty than P2 has taught me. Overall, it's confidence that I never had in Interviews prior to taking on these two roles that I lacked.
I would appreciate some help though. Being the Coordinator of a £1.3m project and delivering my own £100k project seems a bit daunting to put on my CV, so need some guidance as to whether that is the done thing when creating/reading PM CVs?
A lot more has been learnt. Exposure to creating plans, using MS Project, delivering as per deadlines agreements were all excellent experiences and hopefully will come in handy later on.
One thing I will say though, I have learnt so much more getting my hands dirty than P2 has taught me. Overall, it's confidence that I never had in Interviews prior to taking on these two roles that I lacked.
I would appreciate some help though. Being the Coordinator of a £1.3m project and delivering my own £100k project seems a bit daunting to put on my CV, so need some guidance as to whether that is the done thing when creating/reading PM CVs?
Much obliged at people taking out the time to reply here.
Without going into too much detail as my employers may potentially be on here. The £1.3m is a sum that has been quoted to us directly from the powers above in numerous conference calls between ourselves. All in all, that was the companies return. The initial stock came in at £350k with another £50k for resources. The £1.3m is what the client was paying. This works out to be approx. £900k worth of profit. This is all an estimation so the exact amounts may vary by a few thousand pounds.
As far as change requests go, there have been a fair few. But this hasn't really shifted much of the Project that was within scope for us to deal with as the delivery was focusing on the clients request for phase 1. Change requests will be dealt with as a sort of 'phase 2'for this organisation.
Hope this clears up what I plan to/ will try to put on my CV.
Without going into too much detail as my employers may potentially be on here. The £1.3m is a sum that has been quoted to us directly from the powers above in numerous conference calls between ourselves. All in all, that was the companies return. The initial stock came in at £350k with another £50k for resources. The £1.3m is what the client was paying. This works out to be approx. £900k worth of profit. This is all an estimation so the exact amounts may vary by a few thousand pounds.
As far as change requests go, there have been a fair few. But this hasn't really shifted much of the Project that was within scope for us to deal with as the delivery was focusing on the clients request for phase 1. Change requests will be dealt with as a sort of 'phase 2'for this organisation.
Hope this clears up what I plan to/ will try to put on my CV.
What have I learnt? Be realistic with deadlines and don't try to be unrealistically optimistic.
On a serious note, I need to update my CV now. I've had a good bit of time to myself so will post my updates here when I'm ready.
Also, rather unexpectedly, I received an email from a chap who said that he had been following this thread for a year, advised that there may be space in his team, so wanted to chat. There was no return email as it was sent through my profile (came up as sent from Outlook). So if you are reading this, I did respond the following morning but I feel you may not have received the email. Maybe leave some contact details for me to directly get in touch with yourself?
Now I need to find some time for my Practitioner.
On a serious note, I need to update my CV now. I've had a good bit of time to myself so will post my updates here when I'm ready.
Also, rather unexpectedly, I received an email from a chap who said that he had been following this thread for a year, advised that there may be space in his team, so wanted to chat. There was no return email as it was sent through my profile (came up as sent from Outlook). So if you are reading this, I did respond the following morning but I feel you may not have received the email. Maybe leave some contact details for me to directly get in touch with yourself?
Now I need to find some time for my Practitioner.
How long has bit been since I started this thread?!
To bring it somewhat to a close, it was really tough. Maybe it was how realistic I was being beforehand when applying? Maybe my CV was badly written? I decided to do some voluntary work before commencing (as noted here and in another thread).
Before I started applying again, I changed my CV to tailor it properly (after looking at it after some time and not being impressed), received a call a day after posting it up on various job boards from a recruiter (who has been very good tbh). This was 7 weeks ago.
I received a call today having been accepted for a role that starts on the 26th. Desk based PM work, so I'm not in the slightest bit disheartened by not getting something more. If anything, this is technically more than I should be getting so am thankful. Being a 12 month FTC seems fine with me also, beggars can't be choosers right now.
Embarrassingly, I am still yet to do my Practitioner when funds allow as I'll once again be earning.
To bring it somewhat to a close, it was really tough. Maybe it was how realistic I was being beforehand when applying? Maybe my CV was badly written? I decided to do some voluntary work before commencing (as noted here and in another thread).
Before I started applying again, I changed my CV to tailor it properly (after looking at it after some time and not being impressed), received a call a day after posting it up on various job boards from a recruiter (who has been very good tbh). This was 7 weeks ago.
I received a call today having been accepted for a role that starts on the 26th. Desk based PM work, so I'm not in the slightest bit disheartened by not getting something more. If anything, this is technically more than I should be getting so am thankful. Being a 12 month FTC seems fine with me also, beggars can't be choosers right now.
Embarrassingly, I am still yet to do my Practitioner when funds allow as I'll once again be earning.
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