One for the Legal bods - scummy company
Discussion
Nothing car related, however I am fuming and could do with a little advice. The wife has worked as a sales person at a radio/media company for the last 18 months. She has performed well, however as a company things haven't been going too great by all accounts. There have been a number of culling's, more than a few underhanded, including some people being offered payoff's to leave, others have been backed into a corner and the smart one's have left of their own accord or are currently looking.
My wife is currently looking, however it seems the tables have now turned on her. The management has been affected by the above, so she has recently been dealing with a new sales director - the loud mouthed, brash, lacking of any discernible people skills type. He has been on her case recently for trivial things and today during the sales meeting he went off on one at my wife in front of everybody - as in properly shouting at her. My wife doesn't take s
t from anybody but she was reduced to tears and other people at the meeting were in shock. Somebody stuck up for her and has called HR, however there is an incestuous relationship between HR and management and now both my wife and the Samaritan have been told they will be in a meeting with HR, the director and another scabby fkwit. Assuming the worst, this meeting will likely not be positive and I am fully expecting them to go down the road of her exiting the company.
My question is, what can be done here? Will be reading through her contract tonight but I am assuming it must state the disciplinary procedures? I am also assuming they must follow these procedures and cannot fire her without a prior disciplinary? Raising a grievance is largely pointless as HR consists of one person who is in the pocket of the exec's. On a legal side, can we get free representation or is this very much a case of cough up the dosh to get a good solicitor or just lump it? I really do not want to let these dirty fkers win as my wife may nag me to hell but she's actually decent at her job and doesn't deserve this....
Under 2 years service means she cant claim for unfair dismissal, but she can still claim for breach of contract or discrimination. What are the odds here?
My wife is currently looking, however it seems the tables have now turned on her. The management has been affected by the above, so she has recently been dealing with a new sales director - the loud mouthed, brash, lacking of any discernible people skills type. He has been on her case recently for trivial things and today during the sales meeting he went off on one at my wife in front of everybody - as in properly shouting at her. My wife doesn't take s
t from anybody but she was reduced to tears and other people at the meeting were in shock. Somebody stuck up for her and has called HR, however there is an incestuous relationship between HR and management and now both my wife and the Samaritan have been told they will be in a meeting with HR, the director and another scabby fkwit. Assuming the worst, this meeting will likely not be positive and I am fully expecting them to go down the road of her exiting the company.My question is, what can be done here? Will be reading through her contract tonight but I am assuming it must state the disciplinary procedures? I am also assuming they must follow these procedures and cannot fire her without a prior disciplinary? Raising a grievance is largely pointless as HR consists of one person who is in the pocket of the exec's. On a legal side, can we get free representation or is this very much a case of cough up the dosh to get a good solicitor or just lump it? I really do not want to let these dirty f
kers win as my wife may nag me to hell but she's actually decent at her job and doesn't deserve this....Under 2 years service means she cant claim for unfair dismissal, but she can still claim for breach of contract or discrimination. What are the odds here?
So, she has been suspended..... The reason given is because she walked out of the sales meeting. She walked out because she felt threatened due to some smarmy cock jockey of a bully shouting in her face! They have tried to turn it into misconduct on her part! They've also tried to turn it around on her, saying she hasn't made enough appointments and trying to find random trivial things to bring up. She has raised a grievance regarding the incident, but HR consists of one person who would happily eat the CEOs st with a smile if requested, so it is largely pointless. It sounds like they are lining up constructive dismissal. I fail to believe that we don't have a leg to stand on, these s cannot get away with this!
t with a smile if requested, so it is largely pointless. It sounds like they are lining up constructive dismissal. I fail to believe that we don't have a leg to stand on, these s cannot get away with this! Thanks for all of the comments, it's much appreciated. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been any jokes! Clearly only the sensible lot venture into this section haha....
To answer a couple of the questions:
We have contents insurance but not house/building insurance as we are currently renting until a decent property crops up
Yes, the complaint/grievance has been issued in writing with a full description of the incident and the effects of the incident - I helped my wife write it and tried to ensure opinions were left out and stuck to factual information.
She is already looking for a new job and has interviews lined up - she is worried that if they get rid of her she may struggle to find something, but am I right in saying that it is still illegal to give a bad reference and also most companies don't bother these days anyway whether good or bad terms?
I've spoken to Acas briefly, who were helpful however I think I need to have a second conversation with them with my wife present
She has been given a copy of the disciplinary procedure, which makes interesting reading. It clearly states they cannot sack an employee without prior disciplinary action ie. a formal warning. The exception is gross misconduct, which normally would in no way apply to this situation but I wonder how they can try and twist it.... It lists a breach of trust and confidence as gross misconduct, I wonder if they will try to make out that her walking out violated this.... On the flip side though, we could potentially use the same breach as a claim. If we can argue a breach of trust and confidence then they have breached their contract.
To answer a couple of the questions:
We have contents insurance but not house/building insurance as we are currently renting until a decent property crops up
Yes, the complaint/grievance has been issued in writing with a full description of the incident and the effects of the incident - I helped my wife write it and tried to ensure opinions were left out and stuck to factual information.
She is already looking for a new job and has interviews lined up - she is worried that if they get rid of her she may struggle to find something, but am I right in saying that it is still illegal to give a bad reference and also most companies don't bother these days anyway whether good or bad terms?
I've spoken to Acas briefly, who were helpful however I think I need to have a second conversation with them with my wife present
She has been given a copy of the disciplinary procedure, which makes interesting reading. It clearly states they cannot sack an employee without prior disciplinary action ie. a formal warning. The exception is gross misconduct, which normally would in no way apply to this situation but I wonder how they can try and twist it.... It lists a breach of trust and confidence as gross misconduct, I wonder if they will try to make out that her walking out violated this.... On the flip side though, we could potentially use the same breach as a claim. If we can argue a breach of trust and confidence then they have breached their contract.
Update - received a letter through today, stating she will have a disciplinary meeting in a weeks time. The letter gives the reason for the disciplinary as "misconduct", citing that she walked out of the sales meeting. Removing emotion from the equation (and there is a lot, fking dirty bds!), they have omitted two key statements, essentially cherry picking them, one of which the girl in question burst into tears about the whole thing when they questioned her.... funnily, the sales directors statement is rife with fabrication and embellishment. I genuinely believe she has a case for breach of contract along the lines of loss of trust and confidence but we will be getting legal advice. The statements they have included contain contradictions so I wonder if there is a slant there... not going to chase shadows but if there's a case then we will have the idiots.
king dirty bds!), they have omitted two key statements, essentially cherry picking them, one of which the girl in question burst into tears about the whole thing when they questioned her.... funnily, the sales directors statement is rife with fabrication and embellishment. I genuinely believe she has a case for breach of contract along the lines of loss of trust and confidence but we will be getting legal advice. The statements they have included contain contradictions so I wonder if there is a slant there... not going to chase shadows but if there's a case then we will have the idiots.Cheers for the further comments, it does seem a bit bleak I must admit. I think the most infuriating thing is that they can effectively do what they want, they really are a bunch of clueless fking hobbits. Having thought things through and looking at funds, we are thinking it may be best for my wife to hand in her notice before the disciplinary. Can they still enforce the meeting at this point? She's still got a couple of interviews lined up and will continue looking in the meantime, I just think it's better for her sanity if she makes the first move and gets it over and done with. Can they still fire / discipline her after she's resigned?
king hobbits. Having thought things through and looking at funds, we are thinking it may be best for my wife to hand in her notice before the disciplinary. Can they still enforce the meeting at this point? She's still got a couple of interviews lined up and will continue looking in the meantime, I just think it's better for her sanity if she makes the first move and gets it over and done with. Can they still fire / discipline her after she's resigned?andy-xr said:
I would wait for the meeting, take whatever st gets slung and see if there's an offer to walk with a bundle of money (however big or small) if she goes straight away. Upside; gardening leave + PILON + time to look for interviews vs working notice, no PILON, having to deal with them for longer
But what if they sack her on the spot? If the disciplinary procedure isn't actually within her contract then the handbook / guide is not legally enforceable, which means they can sack her if they really want to. The letter also states that it may result in her dismissal. We were pondering whether she should call the CEO / HR knobber and offer resignation if they agree to not go ahead with the disciplinary. This is the most stressful situation I've been in for a while, and that includes a house move falling through at the last minute and crashing my previous car into a ravine WRC style..... She is mainly worried about the reference more than anything, ie it will make it difficult to find a new job.t gets slung and see if there's an offer to walk with a bundle of money (however big or small) if she goes straight away. Upside; gardening leave + PILON + time to look for interviews vs working notice, no PILON, having to deal with them for longer Jasandjules said:
A dismissal for Gross Misconduct can have ramifications for future employment and could be included in a reference...
I've been to Tribunal purely to remove one from a file, as it was preventing my client from getting the job he wanted.
In this case though they are citing Misconduct as opposed to Gross Misconduct. It would seem barmy to sack somebody for walking out of a sales meeting, but they can get away with it and I won't put it past them. It seems the consensus is to attend the hearing and see what comes of it. My wife will have great references from her previous employers, but if she doesn't provide a reference from this company surely it will look suspect? There's no clear answer here and it seems to boil down to whether they will sack her for fun or just issue a written warning. Knowing their recent history, there's a good chance it will be the formerI've been to Tribunal purely to remove one from a file, as it was preventing my client from getting the job he wanted.
I know how s
t I'm feeling about the whole situation and she is taking it a lot worse than me, which is saying something - I'm worried about her to be honest.....Jasandjules said:
Does the letter inviting to a meeting state that a potential outcome is dismissal?
Does it mention Gross Misconduct at any point?
Yes it states that it may result in dismissal, however it does not state gross misconduct, instead being misconduct due to walking out of a sales meeting. Does it mention Gross Misconduct at any point?
It is literally pathetic, but they see my wife as a commodity and she gets all of the emotional brunt - it's her career they are potentially ruining
Just checked her contract and under the section "disciplinary and grievance procedure" it states: "The company's disciplinary and grievance procedures are set out in the employee handbook". In the employee handbook under "disciplinary and grievance procedure" it states that "No employee will be dismissed for a first breach of discipline except in the case of gross misconduct". Yet her letter states it may result in dismissal..... According to a legal mate if the contract refers to the procedures in the handbook, then procedures in the handbook are also legally binding and form part of the terms. This sounds logical, but can anyone reaffirm this?
Update....
My wife had a meeting on Friday and put her case forward. There are numerous references in the statements to aggression, people being scared and her doing nothing wrong / in retaliation to the tirade. She noted these and also made it clear she left the sales meeting essentially to cry and at no point was told not to leave. Result of this is that the company would investigate further, with her still being suspended on full pay.
Received a letter through the post today - she has been dismissed for gross misconduct, the reasoning being that she left the sales meeting resulting in a loss of trust and confidence. They also decided that there was no evidence to back up her grievance. She has been given 5 days to appeal.....
Absolute fking wkers. The of a sales director makes himself look stupid in front of everybody and gets my wife sacked as a result. We will be seeking legal action, will have to see what can be done....
My wife had a meeting on Friday and put her case forward. There are numerous references in the statements to aggression, people being scared and her doing nothing wrong / in retaliation to the tirade. She noted these and also made it clear she left the sales meeting essentially to cry and at no point was told not to leave. Result of this is that the company would investigate further, with her still being suspended on full pay.
Received a letter through the post today - she has been dismissed for gross misconduct, the reasoning being that she left the sales meeting resulting in a loss of trust and confidence. They also decided that there was no evidence to back up her grievance. She has been given 5 days to appeal.....
Absolute f
king wkers. The of a sales director makes himself look stupid in front of everybody and gets my wife sacked as a result. We will be seeking legal action, will have to see what can be done....We already have written statements from employee's provided by the company - there are at least a few which describe the guy as flying off the rail at my wife unprovoked and scaring everybody, resulting in my wife breaking down outside the meeting room. Being that she has been there less than two years, options are a little more limited by all accounts but there must be a way to get some justice, and if there is I will find it
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff