A what would you do....

[creampuff]

Just after some different opinions with this question:

Have been working in oil industry (office job, not offshore). Oil industry down toilet, no oil jobs around, thousands laid off including me, so have just got a new job in another sector.

The new job is pretty good in almost every way. I'm very happy with it - except for one thing, the pay. Because it isn't the oil industry, it only pays half as much as what I'm used to (actually less than half). I've done the sums and the new job will pay living expenses but there is zero left over for longer term expenses like replacing cars, taking anything more than basic holidays etc.

There is no local oil work at the moment and I can't see any happening until mid-2016.

However I do have a choice: a job in Saudi Arabia has come up. This pays the same oil/gas rate that I'm used to. The downside is it is in Saudi Arabia. I'd be leaving my family behind in the UK.

So, in the immediate term, should I go to Saudi for more cash or should I stay in the UK in a job which is good, allows me to see my family each day, but only pays the basic bills?

As I said, the UK oil industry may pick up again in mid-2016. Or it might not.

Edited by creampuff on Thursday 5th November 16:40

[creampuff]

rog007 said:

I guess if you're having to ask...

Whilst the current role pays what it does, you've not mentioned potential for advancement. Equally, some additional qualifications taken in your own time may also aid that advancement, either in the existing organisation or another. Cream always rises to the top some say.

Good luck!

Thanks. Oil/gas pays better than everything else I could remotely hope to do and it probably always will. The new job I think is not tenable in the long term. I could however stick it out for 1-2 years, just because it is interesting and I am learning stuff. Even if I stayed in the new job for some time and increased my pay by a third, it would be the difference between earning about 60% of my previous oil/gas earnings rather than the 45% of previous oil/gas starting salary which I'm on now.

Longer term, it would be crazy for me to leave the oil/gas industry. It would also be risky to leave it for more than about 2 years as it may make it harder to go back.

So, going back to oil/gas when it picks up is a definite. The question is should I dump the new job for an oil job in Saudi Arabia now? Should I dump the new job mid-year 2016 when the UK market may pick up again or should I stick it out until some time in 2017?

My immediate problem is should I go to Saudi Arabia or not?

[creampuff]

andy-xr said:

You're on crack.

You've been let go from a job in a field because it's too volatile but you're convincing yourself that it'll pick up again, long term it'll work out for you. It's no different to a gambling addiction. Your life will be ups and downs, and from the sounds of it, you're not prepared enough for the downs. You've got no umbrellas left in the rack so you're standing out in the rain getting piss wet through.

Oil and gas has always been volatile. This is about the 4th time in my career over two decades there has been an oil price collapse and large scale oil/gas unemployment, it has always picked up after variable period of time. This has nothing to do with a gambling addiction any more than anybody who works in any commodity sector is a gambler. Almost all commodities have volatile prices. Do you remember not too long ago when the price of bananas peaked, then collapsed - I don't hear anybody saying people who work in the banana industry are gamblers. My opinion is it will pick up somewhere between March 2016 and March 2017 and probably around mid-2016: I really don't see what a fluctuating commodity prices have anything to do with people working in those industries being on crack.

Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 27th October 11:20

[creampuff]

..

Edited by creampuff on Thursday 5th November 16:36

[creampuff]

andy-xr said:

My point is, if you're hopping you need more backup than you have. It might be that oil and gas is the future for you but if you're at a point now where you've got fk all coming in and there's no prospects of that changing for at least another 6-9 months, bearing in mind this is crash #4 - how protected are you going to be with crash #5 and is that important?

This is mostly a one-off problem. I bought an apartment as part of my retirement plan, which ate all my cash reserves. If the timing had been different, the same lay-off/job in different industry wouldn't have been a problem. My lifestyle hasn't substantially adjusted to an oil/gas income, it is just this time a shortage of free cash has happened to coincide with being out of work and a lower paying job. Not having spare cash and no way to build up spare cash in the short term, with the new job, is bothering to me.

Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 27th October 11:33

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GT03ROB said:

If the new job only cover the basics, but is not intended to be long term, then it's hardly the end of the world.

I'm only considering Saudi as I _think_ the oil industry will pick up again in mid-2016. But I could be wrong. Saudi is guaranteed long term cash with an international EPC company.

[creampuff]

Mmm, something will have to happen before too long as the Gulf States are running out of cash.

I've never worked for Petrofac. What's up/wrong with them?

[creampuff]

Well, update. Have been at the local job for about a month. It's OK, not good not bad, still plan to jack it in once a suitable oil & gas job comes up locally.. unless:

Unless I go to Saudi. Just got offered the Saudi job which is a good bump up in pay from the local job. Saudi works out to about £11,500/month take home with living expenses on top.

Any ideas? I'm leaning towards just sticking it out in the UK on a lower pay so I'm not away from my wife + 2 kids. However this is betting that the UK oil and gas market will pick up by mid-2016 for it to make financial sense to stick it out in the local job for now.

[creampuff]

GT03ROB said:

Also bear in mind the 11.5k/month is probably before tax. Unless you stick it out to April 2017, you have a tax liability on that. Around 7-10% of that will also be severance payments, which are only paid on satisfactory completion.

I've spent more than 183 days outside the UK (holiday with my family) this tax year. So anything I'd earn in Saudi this tax year would be tax free. I could then work anywhere from 6 to 12 months in the 2016-17 in Saudi and pay no UK tax. That's if it even gets declared as not declaring overseas income to HMRC seems to be standard practice for people working overseas - infact I've worked overseas for 7 years in the past, with Brits, and none of them have declared or paid UK tax on their overseas income. But that's a different topic; for my personal situation I could legally make this happen with no UK tax liability this tax year and I could manage my time in Saudi to be at least 6 months so I have no HMRC tax liability next year.

---

To the other question: It is RESIDENTIAL. As such it has quite a poor rotation and I'd be in Saudi 12 weeks followed by 2 weeks paid leave.

Edited by creampuff on Saturday 28th November 15:31

[creampuff]

GT03ROB said:

12/2 for Saudi is pretty much the norm. Will you be in the Eastern province? If so you will be able to break this up by flying the family into Bahrain for long weekends & meeting up there.

This is a topic of current discussion with my wife, I'm not basing my decision on what I read on here

The job is in Al-Khobar.

I don't think that would work to fly my family out as it would be 3 x airfares so the cost adds up. I'd be more inclined to ask if I can take a week unpaid mid-way in the 12 week on-duty cycle and go to the UK for that week. Have you had any experience with people taking unpaid leave in addition to their paid leave in Saudi? Anyone?

Does anybody have any info on Saudi exit visas? I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that I don't have the nuclear option of just going to the airport and leaving if things turned pear shaped for any reason.

The other thing I am thinking, aside from the cash and aside from the separation from my family if I go, is my career. It is actually quite a good job in Saudi, other than the location. I had 3 months unemployed recently and I really decided anything other than oil and gas is a waste of my time in the long term: other industries seem very reluctant to hire anybody with an O&G background and if they do then they only pay between one-third and two-thirds as much (i.e. my current job in the UK which is not in O&G and which I took once I got laid off from O&G). So, I've realised that oil and gas has been very good to me for almost two decades. My concern is that if things do not pick up in 2016 but they do pick up in 2017, then I would by that time have had 1.5 years outside the oil and gas industry. This may be an issue, it may not be an issue. Like the future direction of the oil price, I don't know. On that basis, for career reasons, I should go to Saudi even though to be honest on the balance of everything I don't really want to go.

Edited by creampuff on Saturday 28th November 18:17

[creampuff]

^ I thought there were also EXIT visas? i.e. you need a visa to leave the country?

[creampuff]

^

The accommodation & transport allowance (this is on top of the GBP £11.5k salary) is about US$2,000 per month. Do you think this is sufficient?

If I were to lead a relatively simple life there how much do you think my daily living expenses would be?

Thanks for your help on this thread, btw

[creampuff]

I'm going to have a phone call with the HR dept in Saudi and grill them about T&C then go from there.

At the moment:

Pros for Saudi:
- More cash (this is really the reason I'd be going)
- Oil industry, which is my career and everything else is a distraction
- Job should be relatively easy and low stress (at least for me; I've been doing this a while so I find it low stress) compared to my current UK job which is a higher workload.
- Long term stable job; good in the event that the oil/gas industry does go into a prolonged downturn

Pros for UK:
- Stay with my family. This is a big consideration.

As I also wrote, my current UK job while in a different industry and good in that regard in terms of broadening my experience, the company is a bit Mickey Mouse and I could see the job getting irritating after about 6 months. It's the highest paying non-oil job I've looked at which I'm remotely qualified for, so there is no option to change to a different non-oil job still within the UK either.

Maybe I'm thinking too much; things may pick up in oil/gas in the UK mid-way through next year.

The Saudi job has a 2 month notice period, which may also make it harder to get jobs in the UK because when they want you they usually want you next week.

Edited by creampuff on Sunday 29th November 18:21

[creampuff]

Haven't talked to HR yet but they have suggested in an email that I can live in Bahrain or Saudi and Bahrain is about a 45 min commute.

Is living in Bahrain feasible if you work in Saudi? Does it really take 45 mins or is it longer? Is living in Bahrain any cheaper than living in Al-Khobar? Is long term car rental reasonably priced?

[creampuff]

^
OK maybe I'll cancel the Bahrain idea then.

They have confirmed I'd be getting a resident visa which does not require an exit visa.

[creampuff]

MarshPhantom said:

OP, I don't think you'll be able to imagine what staying away from the family is like until you do it. What will your situation be if you want to come home early and have to return to the UK?

I'd have an entry/exit visa for Saudi (i.e. I would not have to apply for a Saudi exit visa). I could likely take time off and return to the UK more regularly than my 12-week on 2-week off rota, but I'd have to be careful not to spend more than 3 months in the UK for tax reasons. It would make it problematic to return to the UK to change job to a local one if the oil/gas industry picked up in the UK, both for non-resident tax reasons and because I'd be on a 60 day notice period in Saudi. The Saudi 60 day notice period is long enough that, had I been subject to a notice period that long in the past, it would have disqualified me for all UK positions which I have had recently.