Can employer force you to stay on site during PAID break?
Discussion
Worked in current job for 4 & 1/2 years, about a year in we were TUPE'd as the company was purchased by a large multinational corporation.
Worked for said corporation for 3 years almost to the day now, every day I have worked there, I have gone to the sandwich shop 1/4 mile down the road for my break, clocking out and in within the 20 minutes allocated. This is widely known and I'm even often asked by our site manager to get a sandwich for him or other staff when I go!
Yesterday was told that there is a rule saying if we have a paid break we cannot leave site, and therefore I can't goto the sandwich shop for food. This has come from our HR department and everyone on site including both my line manager and site manager think it's ridiculous!
This just seems petty and ridiculous (and probably about as legally enforceable as a unicorn!), but they claim that because it's a paid break, they can make me stay on site (this is their only justification - I've asked several times!)
Apparently my only other option is to change my employment contract to a salaried (rather than hourly) contract, but then I won't get paid overtime & there would be a few other minor changes (for the worse!)
Main question is, can they verbally enforce this rule, or can the enforce it at all for that matter? Can they make me stay on site just because they feel like it? Surely it's a change in working conditions and at the very least needs to be put in writing (again, asked for this, they just refuse saying well, you've been told, why do you need it in writing?)
This is the latest in a long line of globally introduced stupid rules (including the exact specification of cup we can drink from) so at the moment I'm looking for alternative employment as a backup plan, but in the meantime it would be nice to quote some legislation and carry on going for my traditional sandwich break (just to get out of the s
thole for 5 minutes!!), at least until I can find somewhere else to work!
Thanks in advance!!
Worked for said corporation for 3 years almost to the day now, every day I have worked there, I have gone to the sandwich shop 1/4 mile down the road for my break, clocking out and in within the 20 minutes allocated. This is widely known and I'm even often asked by our site manager to get a sandwich for him or other staff when I go!
Yesterday was told that there is a rule saying if we have a paid break we cannot leave site, and therefore I can't goto the sandwich shop for food. This has come from our HR department and everyone on site including both my line manager and site manager think it's ridiculous!
This just seems petty and ridiculous (and probably about as legally enforceable as a unicorn!), but they claim that because it's a paid break, they can make me stay on site (this is their only justification - I've asked several times!)
Apparently my only other option is to change my employment contract to a salaried (rather than hourly) contract, but then I won't get paid overtime & there would be a few other minor changes (for the worse!)
Main question is, can they verbally enforce this rule, or can the enforce it at all for that matter? Can they make me stay on site just because they feel like it? Surely it's a change in working conditions and at the very least needs to be put in writing (again, asked for this, they just refuse saying well, you've been told, why do you need it in writing?)
This is the latest in a long line of globally introduced stupid rules (including the exact specification of cup we can drink from) so at the moment I'm looking for alternative employment as a backup plan, but in the meantime it would be nice to quote some legislation and carry on going for my traditional sandwich break (just to get out of the s
thole for 5 minutes!!), at least until I can find somewhere else to work!Thanks in advance!!
CoolHands said:
Is it because you spend the 20 minutes paid break going to buy the sandwich, then the next 20 mins of work-time eating it?
No, I always get & eat the sandwich within the 20 minutes, something both my line manager & site manager have agreed, in fact usually I'm done within 10-15 minutes and back working.The issue is that the clocking in system, if you clock out to go off site, deducts the 5-10 minutes off my hours and shows it as unauthorised absence, apparently this is the problem and why they have raised it, because my hours show repeated 8-10 minute un-explained absence, which is what HR first questioned with my site manager, who replied, "yes he goes off site for a sandwich", at which point this previously unheard of rule appeared!
battered said:
Yes they can. You are paid to be there. If you want to leave site you need the ok from yr manager. Leaving site without permission is gross mis, so be very sure to get the ok.
Well, that sucks, but thanks, guess I'll have to find another job then and tell them to inset their on-site break where the sun doesn't shine, along with all the other petty childish crap we get told each week! irocfan said:
Petrolhead_Rich said:
This is the latest in a long line of globally introduced stupid rules (including the exact specification of cup we can drink from)
say what now???Yesterdays e-mail was the companies "Pokemon Go Policy", no really!
battered said:
Yeah, good luck with that one. The workround is above, the manager authorises him to leave site for 10 minutes, gives him a ticket, then the safety/clock issues are answered. If HR want to take on the manager for letting him leave site on a ticket, then they can come and have a go if they think they're hard enough.
Ironically it's the implementation of a new clocking in system which HR have direct access to thats causing all the fuss, previously we had a fob system on site which was managed locally, they put in a new fingerprint system about 6 weeks ago which HR manage and our local manager has to authorise, they called him asking why I had 8-12 minute unauthorised absences every day that he was authorising, he explained that I went for a sandwich and they said that wasn't allowed and that if he was found to be allowing an employee off site for their break, he would be "in trouble"Our HR department are a rule unto themselves and answer directly to our global headquarters in Germany, who probably have no idea what policies are in place in the UK business areas!
Hol said:
Having some principles to stick to is all well and good, but unless you have a better job lined up to go to now, its often better to play the HR game in the short term and wait it out, until someone either blinks, or a better job comes along
...
Buy your sandwiches for the next day on the way home from work, stick them in your fridge at home overnight and buy a sandwich sized coolbag to take them to work in.
Then spend ALL 20mins of your break, doing your own thing, until someone else volunteers to clock out and go to the shop every day.
Problem is I rather like my bacon, egg and tomato sandwich to be warm and with a runny egg! ...
Buy your sandwiches for the next day on the way home from work, stick them in your fridge at home overnight and buy a sandwich sized coolbag to take them to work in.
Then spend ALL 20mins of your break, doing your own thing, until someone else volunteers to clock out and go to the shop every day.
Anyway, Saga continued today, called into site managers office which lead to an interesting discussion where he basically agreed with me and apologised that there was nothing he can do, he thinks this and most of the other bullst that comes from corporate/HR/IT/H&S on a daily/weekly basis is also nonsense but he is powerless to change it and has to enforce it so he doesn't get into trouble!
On the plus side, there may be a position being "created" for me in a related company that we use for specialist work who seem keen to steal me away, so we'll see what happens.
Thanks PH as ever for your advice
t that comes from corporate/HR/IT/H&S on a daily/weekly basis is also nonsense but he is powerless to change it and has to enforce it so he doesn't get into trouble!On the plus side, there may be a position being "created" for me in a related company that we use for specialist work who seem keen to steal me away, so we'll see what happens.
Thanks PH as ever for your advice
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I do wonder if employers consider the cost of this kind of stuff in terms of the impact on morale as having staff who like and want to work for you is something quite difficult to put a price on IMO.
I would guess that someone did something wrong in the past so rather than deal with the issue it's seen as simpler to do a knee-jerk blanket ban.
Sounds like a pretty unpleasant working environment.
It's crap and out of 30 employees I'll be #4 to leave in 3 years on a site that has very low staff turnover, most staff are also looking for work now and are equally pissed off. Company as a whole globally has very high staff turnover and online "rate my employer" reviews are pretty much all terrible mirroring our daily complaints in the UK sites.I would guess that someone did something wrong in the past so rather than deal with the issue it's seen as simpler to do a knee-jerk blanket ban.
Sounds like a pretty unpleasant working environment.
As a mere worker ant I cannot landscape the North Yorkshire moors alone, so I may as well move onto a smaller nest where I'm valued! To these guys I'm just a number!
Countdown said:
Was the fob system being abused?
No, not at all, the replacement was purely part of a centralisation of all HR services and is exactly the same system used globally (or will be by 2020 when our IT centralisation scheme is finished (more likely to be 2030, by which point it will all be obsolete!
))Incidentally, most days I do anything upto 45 minutes unpaid overtime too in order to try to get stuff working for the night shift (maintenance engineer), so as that has now stopped (I'm working to rule), then thats on average 2-3 hours a week of my time they have lost and upto 32 hours of downtime they have potentially lost, all to keep me on site!
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