Career at an end, what now?
Discussion
I haven't managed to secure a job in 12 months and so I am faced with the realisation that no-one wants me. I am 48 and have good background in marketing and lots of up to date digital experience, working both client side and 3 years in an agency. Despite my good CV (which was rewritten by one of the CV Library writers) I have had lots of interest from recruitment agencies and some interviews which all seem to have gone well but resulted in either no feedback or feedback saying I was good but too senior or not the right fit. That's assuming they even bother to feedback at all.
Its a big shock tbh. I have always done well in marketing and never struggled to get a job but now feel like its not going to happen. You name it, I've done it, tried it in the job hunting arena. I hate the embarrassment of friends saying 'So how's the job hunting going?' and I keep saying 'Good but slow'.
So, realistically here I can only assume my career in marketing is over, it shouldn't be but all the signs tell me it is. I have been keeping going by working on an online course related to my experience which is good but pay back is long term, as new business ventures often are.
Today then I have admitted defeat and so am changing my search for a role to basically anything/anyone that will have me but I don't want to appear over qualified for low level jobs so assume I will need to 'dumb down' my CV (no offence to anyone here - sorry) but am unsure how to do this. Also, what would I wear to an interview? I've only ever worn suits. A quick search reveals driving jobs and some retail work.
I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said this is a life-changing moment for me
Its a big shock tbh. I have always done well in marketing and never struggled to get a job but now feel like its not going to happen. You name it, I've done it, tried it in the job hunting arena. I hate the embarrassment of friends saying 'So how's the job hunting going?' and I keep saying 'Good but slow'.
So, realistically here I can only assume my career in marketing is over, it shouldn't be but all the signs tell me it is. I have been keeping going by working on an online course related to my experience which is good but pay back is long term, as new business ventures often are.
Today then I have admitted defeat and so am changing my search for a role to basically anything/anyone that will have me but I don't want to appear over qualified for low level jobs so assume I will need to 'dumb down' my CV (no offence to anyone here - sorry) but am unsure how to do this. Also, what would I wear to an interview? I've only ever worn suits. A quick search reveals driving jobs and some retail work.
I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said this is a life-changing moment for me
CountZero23 said:
Maybe broaden your search? There's plenty of that kind of work down in Brighton / London.
There seems to be a reasonable amount available but I am just not getting anywhere. I feel that I am too senior for some roles and not senior enough for others, almost like I fall down the gap in between, but that may be just my impression. Also, I need to be realistic about how far I can travel.tumble dryer said:
battered said:
Bulls
t. You're 48. You're as good as you were a year ago and better than you were as a youngster. Get out there and pitch. Your skills are needed somewhere. Find out where and nail it.
t. You're 48. You're as good as you were a year ago and better than you were as a youngster. Get out there and pitch. Your skills are needed somewhere. Find out where and nail it.
DSLiverpool said:
Test yourself - go on AliExpress spend a little bit on something you are interested in and set up a shopify doing the social media stuff. Blunt and simplistic yes - could be the best thing you will ever do. I have just advised a friend to do this with a total budget of £1k and time, ability and a real interest in the item they will sell.
And is it working?DSLiverpool said:
Discussed this weekend, order for stock placed, website being built by herself with banner help from our designer as a favour. They have 800 facebook friends and a product under £5 that anyone would want, if 200 friends share the new website and those friends share it to 10 more friends etc etc - it will work for her, its an item she loves using and is already preparing a you tube channel now.
It really depends if you HAVE to be earning full wack right now - if so trying your own path isnt for you, I am 6 months in to my new venture and its not covering the school fees (yet) but it will and very soon ...... but 6 months of not much isnt for everyone.
Well I don't but I also want to earn something otherwise I'll have been out of work for a long time and the longer is goes on the worse it looks in my CV. I already extended my last role's finish date and put the first 5 months of this year down as a career break..It really depends if you HAVE to be earning full wack right now - if so trying your own path isnt for you, I am 6 months in to my new venture and its not covering the school fees (yet) but it will and very soon ...... but 6 months of not much isnt for everyone.
MrOrange said:
"digital marketing" is massively in demand at the moment in and around London.
But you don't need to work in an office - you can work from home/digital nomad. Nor do you need to be employed - £50 a hour seems to be a starting rate for freelancers in that space, book 15hrs a week and that's £36k per year ... for a part-time job.
Are you referring to anywhere specific for these roles? But you don't need to work in an office - you can work from home/digital nomad. Nor do you need to be employed - £50 a hour seems to be a starting rate for freelancers in that space, book 15hrs a week and that's £36k per year ... for a part-time job.
AndStilliRise said:
tumble dryer said:
battered said:
Bullst. You're 48. You're as good as you were a year ago and better than you were as a youngster. Get out there and pitch. Your skills are needed somewhere. Find out where and nail it.
t. You're 48. You're as good as you were a year ago and better than you were as a youngster. Get out there and pitch. Your skills are needed somewhere. Find out where and nail it.- KeepFighting
Foliage said:
Marketing Expert, but failing to sell ones self, interesting.
Seriously though, just keep at it, the right position will come along, try a different tack, agencies are awful, try approaching some companies directly.
If your not already doing something with your time other than looking for work perhaps consider charity work or a part time job (try to keep it relevant), just for something to add to your CV.
Yep, ironic isn't it! I am looking at p/t work but there's little/nothing marketing related and what there is is focused on young/new starters to marketing.Seriously though, just keep at it, the right position will come along, try a different tack, agencies are awful, try approaching some companies directly.
If your not already doing something with your time other than looking for work perhaps consider charity work or a part time job (try to keep it relevant), just for something to add to your CV.
blindswelledrat said:
Undirection - what is your specific role/job title?
I simply cannot believe that there are no jobs out there for you. The economy is strong and the marketing industry isn't going anywhere any time soon and you have decent experience.
Possible reasons you aren't getting a job:
1) You are restricting criteria of what you will do
2)You are restricting your criteria of where you will work
3) You are interviewing badly for some reason
I realise your recent experience of hunting is a bit gloomy but to suggest your career is over is just wrong.
Ok, I have been a Marketing Manager for leading SME businesses and the rest of my work has been within blue chips (plus last 3yrs agency). I completely get what you mean but I am at a total loss tbh. I get 3-4 calls a week from rec agents which is 99% of the time: Would you be interested in this role, Yes it looks good, Great I'll come back to you, Silence/Nothing/Bugger all.I simply cannot believe that there are no jobs out there for you. The economy is strong and the marketing industry isn't going anywhere any time soon and you have decent experience.
Possible reasons you aren't getting a job:
1) You are restricting criteria of what you will do
2)You are restricting your criteria of where you will work
3) You are interviewing badly for some reason
I realise your recent experience of hunting is a bit gloomy but to suggest your career is over is just wrong.
I've got a great CV I think, great results, experience and skills. I should be being snapped up. I think that most of the jobs I have been interviewed for possibly weren't a great fit, but I could have done them all easily.
So far I'd say feedback (which you almost never get) is 'Great guy but not the right fit' or 'Probably a bit over qualified'. My salary is around £45k (has been for last 5-6 years). Perhaps I am aiming too low in sub £50k. Anything sub £40k is just way to junior for me and companies wouldn't even consider me.
In terms of your points:
1) I have a very wide ranging skill set and experience and have been as flexible as it is possible to get but often companies only want people with their industry experience such as education or IT.
2) I've been fairly flexible and looked at areas with relatively long commutes.
3) Maybe but the feedback I have had has been good so far. I think I am pretty personable but feedback is often fairly unspecific which doesn't help.
AlasdairMc said:
Sorry to say this, but if you're not getting interest from your CV, then it isn't fit for purpose. Are you on LinkedIn with a massive network and loads of endorsements? Do you have a set of skills listed in your profile that are essentially clickbait for recruiters?
I've done nothing on my LinkedIn profile but still get regular approaches from recruiters despite not even looking for a job. If you are being approached but not progressing, two things are at play here: either the recruiter can't see you as being suitable for the role, or they do see you as being suitable but are put off by the salary expectations.
TBH being approached by recruiters is the easy bit. I get approaches 3-4 a week. I've had my CV rewritten by a professional and I have a good LI profile with lots of endorsements.I've done nothing on my LinkedIn profile but still get regular approaches from recruiters despite not even looking for a job. If you are being approached but not progressing, two things are at play here: either the recruiter can't see you as being suitable for the role, or they do see you as being suitable but are put off by the salary expectations.
battered said:
This rate is typical for middle management, often more. If you are unemployed, why not? Set up cost is nil if yuo have a phone and a computer, off you go. I've been an interim for 5 years now, it's great.
This would work for me but are you known for interim work now or do you apply for interim roles or do you just have you CV on all the main sites with 'looking for interim contracts'?UPDATE: As I know a few of you have been following this, and thanks for all the PMs by the way, I thought I'd grab a moment to update you.
So, it’s been a bit of a rollercoaster. In 2016 I applied for a marketing role with a rapidly expanding agency and ended up being brought in to manage all their client services. It all happened in a matter of days. What I soon realised was that they were a complete mess! The company MD was AWOL most of the time, I had 25 direct reports who had not had a manager for many months and had gone a bit ‘feral’. They had a global software launch which was months behind time and when it launched the tech team pissed off on hols and the marketing team had had enough of working on it. This essentially meant I had to bring 25 staff back into line, focus them on their jobs, focus them on launching this new software, get them to do the marketing department’s work, recruit new staff urgently (as there was strong international demand from other countries), train new staff in a product I barely knew myself, the list goes on… After we missed launching in one country the GM blamed me and that was that. It was not my fault but…TBH the staff were great and I had some really nice messages from them but I wasn’t disappointed to be gone tbh.
On to Nov this year and I secured a new job in a company, which I left last Friday. It was a great culture of work hard/play hard but in Jan they realised that their digital agency had cost £17k plus £40k in crap PPC and we were performing worse since they had worked on our account (cue very awkward meeting with them – and that was the end of them) and a huge target for the year for sales which the company missed by a country a mile, putting everyone under pressure. The MD basically said that marketing was too costly, he could employ 2-3 more sales people and get back on track. And so that’s what he did. I get it of course but it was immensely disappointing that I didn’t have any time to really show what could have achieved.
So, back home again and I’m a year behind now. As usual, it seems, I am sitting here, wondering if:
• I am too old to do the job (I’m not but all sorts of doubts seep in)
• I should do something completely different (but I’ve seen some of the career change threads for later in life and they are not positive)
• I should try to start something on my own, I’m a very good copywriter, plus there’s good demand for content marketing and management/strategy so this may be an option.
• I have a couple of other business ideas, one for an automotive product which looks really good IMO but its winter related and we’re coming out of that now so it may be for next year and another automotive related one which again could be really good but payback if unknown.
Today I am writing a ‘copywriter’ CV and am going to apply to all the copywriting jobs I can find and then I am going to visit companies with it printed out. I may also try a content management related one.
So that all sounds like a positive thing I guess but it really is a rollercoaster of emotions for me at the moment and, tbh, I am really embarrassed that I ‘can’t’ get a job. My mates joked that the most recent job should last longer than the last one. It did, just. I really can’t face telling everyone that I am out of a job - again. To date my career has been great but the last few years have been up and down and the last year, totally down. I’ve gone from never thinking about money to worrying about it. We have plenty tbh but when I am not earning I am always less likely to spend money and avoid social occasions because of that. It creates a lot of stress continually. Plus it puts pressure on Mrs U too to cover our costs. Luckily she is a highish earner but I still don’t want her to shoulder all the financial burden.
Last year I applied for countless jobs, spoke to recruitment agents every few days, had interviews that I never heard back from, had interviews I was overqualified for etc. I had thousands of hours to consider every option. I even applied to low paid retail jobs and didn’t get an interview. I’ll stop typing now but any words of support and encouragement would be greatly appreciated.
So, it’s been a bit of a rollercoaster. In 2016 I applied for a marketing role with a rapidly expanding agency and ended up being brought in to manage all their client services. It all happened in a matter of days. What I soon realised was that they were a complete mess! The company MD was AWOL most of the time, I had 25 direct reports who had not had a manager for many months and had gone a bit ‘feral’. They had a global software launch which was months behind time and when it launched the tech team pissed off on hols and the marketing team had had enough of working on it. This essentially meant I had to bring 25 staff back into line, focus them on their jobs, focus them on launching this new software, get them to do the marketing department’s work, recruit new staff urgently (as there was strong international demand from other countries), train new staff in a product I barely knew myself, the list goes on… After we missed launching in one country the GM blamed me and that was that. It was not my fault but…TBH the staff were great and I had some really nice messages from them but I wasn’t disappointed to be gone tbh.
On to Nov this year and I secured a new job in a company, which I left last Friday. It was a great culture of work hard/play hard but in Jan they realised that their digital agency had cost £17k plus £40k in crap PPC and we were performing worse since they had worked on our account (cue very awkward meeting with them – and that was the end of them) and a huge target for the year for sales which the company missed by a country a mile, putting everyone under pressure. The MD basically said that marketing was too costly, he could employ 2-3 more sales people and get back on track. And so that’s what he did. I get it of course but it was immensely disappointing that I didn’t have any time to really show what could have achieved.
So, back home again and I’m a year behind now. As usual, it seems, I am sitting here, wondering if:
• I am too old to do the job (I’m not but all sorts of doubts seep in)
• I should do something completely different (but I’ve seen some of the career change threads for later in life and they are not positive)
• I should try to start something on my own, I’m a very good copywriter, plus there’s good demand for content marketing and management/strategy so this may be an option.
• I have a couple of other business ideas, one for an automotive product which looks really good IMO but its winter related and we’re coming out of that now so it may be for next year and another automotive related one which again could be really good but payback if unknown.
Today I am writing a ‘copywriter’ CV and am going to apply to all the copywriting jobs I can find and then I am going to visit companies with it printed out. I may also try a content management related one.
So that all sounds like a positive thing I guess but it really is a rollercoaster of emotions for me at the moment and, tbh, I am really embarrassed that I ‘can’t’ get a job. My mates joked that the most recent job should last longer than the last one. It did, just. I really can’t face telling everyone that I am out of a job - again. To date my career has been great but the last few years have been up and down and the last year, totally down. I’ve gone from never thinking about money to worrying about it. We have plenty tbh but when I am not earning I am always less likely to spend money and avoid social occasions because of that. It creates a lot of stress continually. Plus it puts pressure on Mrs U too to cover our costs. Luckily she is a highish earner but I still don’t want her to shoulder all the financial burden.
Last year I applied for countless jobs, spoke to recruitment agents every few days, had interviews that I never heard back from, had interviews I was overqualified for etc. I had thousands of hours to consider every option. I even applied to low paid retail jobs and didn’t get an interview. I’ll stop typing now but any words of support and encouragement would be greatly appreciated.
Yes, thanks, that's a good point (about 2 two jobs). TBH I am a bit overly conscious of what people think of me sometimes and this situation does embarrass me, I'll not lie. Today I have been back on it with my CV and I have a couple of other ideas bubbling away (but i am prioritising, rather than doing a bit of everything and achieving nothing.
Also, I do look back on the jobs and look at what I could have done differently even if its doubtful I could have.
Also, I do look back on the jobs and look at what I could have done differently even if its doubtful I could have.
fido said:
Not telling you how to do your job - but did you not create team leaders within the 25 to make it more manageable, as well as being able to shift some responsibility/blame for underperformance in whatever areas they were in charge of?
I pointed this out very early on, it was ridiculous, my feet hardly touched the ground from the moment I got in to the office. They said they'd look at this but in the short term it was all about firefighting and getting them out of the st. Their own fk up but they either didn't realise that or didn't want to admit it.BGARK said:
Sorry to be negative but if he proved he can deliver the companies in question would not want him to leave, good people in any business are like gold dust.
OP - There are two sides to each story, I would try and get the truth out of the MD's in question, some tough love never hurt anyone.
Indeed, although I've been unlucky I did spend many an hour considering what I could have done differently. I think that if the two companies hadn't have been in the middle of a fairly major issue I'd have still been in both. With the first one I took a job doing something that's not my main area of expertise and so getting to grips with that and dealing with a company in the middle of a huge and poorly planned/executed product launch was far from ideal but I was impressed with their enthusiasm for me and went with it. At that point I didn't realise the situation. Yes, I could have prioritised a bit better and communicated what I was doing better to the MD but I'm not sure that ultimately that was the type of job I wanted. OP - There are two sides to each story, I would try and get the truth out of the MD's in question, some tough love never hurt anyone.
The second one was a bit of bad timing, I got called in just in time for most of the staff and suppliers to go on hols and then, with targets doubling for 2017 and the business tanking in Jan, added to a big f
k up by the agency, it would have been a small miracle to recover marketing from that. Again I could have got some plans in place quicker but the issue was that results were needed immediately and its not always possible with marketing (although sometimes it is)...All lessons learnt and not to be repeated but yes, I am not saying i couldn't have done something more.
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