1M - Is it the 'new' M3. Discuss!

[Pugsey]

Have BMW pulled a flanker on us. Many people (me included) who buy and run M3s wouldn't look at an M5 - not because of price but because it isn't our sort of car. Too big and heavy - an awesome 'GT' really - and not the lighter more 'sportng car we're looking for. BUT having now spent time in a 1M and then had a refresher in an M3, that car (the M3) looks overly large/heavy and luxurious. To me it has become an M5! The 1m is as fast as the M3 on track - same times in EVO's test and actually faster round Hockenheim - and I think a fair bit faster most of the time in the real world of road driving thanks to monster torque and killer in gear times plus it's size. It's also more immediate 'fun' more of the time.

M3? Still a simply awesome car but to me it's now moved up into the M5 bracket. the 1M is my new M3. Didn't see that one coming! Clever old BMW...............

[Pugsey]

paulmon said:

Shoot me down in flames but didnt the E46 M3 have more power and weigh less. That model is 10 years old so its hardly progress. Great looking car though and 2 or 3 years ago I would have been all over it like a rash, but I'm starting to wonder is there a need for cars that have way too much performance for the road and are primarily used as trinkets.

The state doesnt want us to drive and they certainly dont want us to drive cars that do late teens early twenties MPG. We get shafted on every front, tax, fuel, insurance. I found my old mileage spreadsheet for 2001 when I did 19K miles in 10 months in my P1. Without at doubt the best 10 driving months of my life. At the time SUL was 71p per litre and I spent just over £3K that year on fuel. Fast forward 10 years and that amount doubles. For some people the cost of running a car are neither here nor there but for us mere mortals its something that has to factored into any car purchase nowadays. Dont even mention the D word.

I've woken in a sombre mood this morning and I will probably feel completey different about this after first hit of caffine. Anyhow my trinket needs cleaning. It rained last night and I didnt put it away.

P

That was then, this is now. We are where we are in terms of legislation/necessary weight/safety etc. I was discussing current cars/the future. BMW have brought out a new and 'lighter' M3 - but called it something else was my arguement

Edited by Pugsey on Sunday 22 May 09:59

[Pugsey]

paulmon said:

Pugsey said:

That was then, this is now. We are where we are in terms of legislation/necessary weight/safety etc. I was discussing current cars/the future. BMW have brought out a new and 'lighter' M3 - but called it something else was my arguement

Edited by Pugsey on Sunday 22 May 09:59

In which case I concur.

Oh, and drive one! You won't even consider an E46 after you have. Maybe not even a CSL!

[Pugsey]

Nords said:

It has those nasty turbo stickers on the back doesn't it?

ER, no! But tell me more. LOVE the idea of 'nasty' turbos!

[Pugsey]

Dan S said:

Hmmm,

This will be a completely different story after the Fxx M3 arrives, however the S65 makes the M3 for me and for that reason I wouldn't ever consider replacing it with a turbo powered unit.

Understand BUT try one. Sounds as good (maybe better) than n/a straight six - and better most of the time than V8. In reality goes harder more of the time too. I'm sort of with you re n/a v turbo but....................

Wouldn't swap back to my old V8 M3 now. Consider that a heavier 'GT' now.

[Pugsey]

Nords said:

Frik said:

Pugsey said:

Nords said:

It has those nasty turbo stickers on the back doesn't it?

ER, no! But tell me more. LOVE the idea of 'nasty' turbos!

Maybe something like this:

Ahhhhhh, sorry; I meant give it a year or two and the halfords crowd will be putting nasty turbo stickers on the back, and dump valves and neon lights etc. My issue is that, it should have nasty turbo stickers on it...

Ah well.You worry about stickers while I get on with driving it!

[Pugsey]

Porscheplayer said:

Mermaid said:

It seems "everyone" wants a 1M, surely will produce more than 450 for the UK.

This car is getting great reviews, but it'll do what every m car does and loose money like a stone in the first year. Wait 12 months and it be yours 30k or less, despite the limited supply. CSL anyone?
Still fancy driving one though, wasn't that impressed with v8 m3, so this could be the one to have.

Can't agree. CSL was hugely overpriced when it came out particularly given the very limited niche market it was aimed at. Plus a lot of people didn't get it. On paper it didn't look like you were getting much more over a standard M3 for a lot more money. How liitle did they know! Seriously doubt you'll see sub £30k cars in 12 months.

[Pugsey]

Licentious said:

Pugsey said:

Can't agree. CSL was hugely overpriced when it came out particularly given the very limited niche market it was aimed at. Plus a lot of people didn't get it. On paper it didn't look like you were getting much more over a standard M3 for a lot more money. How liitle did they know! Seriously doubt you'll see sub £30k cars in 12 months.

Don't hold your breath.

Oh I AM holding it actually - until Sat when I pick mine up Then, I intend to ENJOY it and as already posted several times I couldn't care less about future values - that way madness lies. I spec cars for myself NOT for future resale and never stress over depreciation - it's just the price of miles of fun. Still believe you won't see sub £30k cars in 12 months but won't loose sleep over it either way

[Pugsey]

Licentious.

£200 to charity of choice bet that there won't be a £30k 1M on the market in 12 months time (25/5/12) yes?

Bit of fun.

[Pugsey]

Mermaid said:

Pugsey said:

Oh I AM holding it actually - until Sat when I pick mine up Then, I intend to ENJOY it and as already posted several times I couldn't care less about future values - that way madness lies. I spec cars for myself NOT for future resale and never stress over depreciation - it's just the price of miles of fun. Still believe you won't see sub £30k cars in 12 months but won't loose sleep over it either way

You can be confident the car will not be below £30k in 12 months - I'll buy it off you at £30001.

Just enjoy like you would any other fine consumable. You have the right idea

Like it! You'll not mind high miles - including many at the 'Ring then?

[Pugsey]

Porscheplayer said:

Pugsey said:

Porscheplayer said:

Mermaid said:

It seems "everyone" wants a 1M, surely will produce more than 450 for the UK.

This car is getting great reviews, but it'll do what every m car does and loose money like a stone in the first year. Wait 12 months and it be yours 30k or less, despite the limited supply. CSL anyone?
Still fancy driving one though, wasn't that impressed with v8 m3, so this could be the one to have.

Can't agree. CSL was hugely overpriced when it came out particularly given the very limited niche market it was aimed at. Plus a lot of people didn't get it. On paper it didn't look like you were getting much more over a standard M3 for a lot more money. How liitle did they know! Seriously doubt you'll see sub £30k cars in 12 months.

Perhaps, but based on previous m cars values, it's highly likely.
See you back here in 12 months time

Drop +30%?! Not during first year of production - they usually hold values very well indeed during first 12 to 18 months. Later in the model life they tend to drop but not early on. I know having had very early E46 and current M3s. AND of course the 1M is a very limited run and already becoming highly desirable. We'll see....................

[Pugsey]

RichyBoy said:

I don't get it surely a driver's car is all about handling, in both mags I just skimmed they say the cayman r is the better handling car (in one they say the cayman r is the best handling car ever) however they both conclude that the 1m is the better car.

Just because a (£20k more expensive, mid engined) car handles slightly better doesn't make it more desirable. Which I think is the point they're making.

[Pugsey]

Mermaid said:

ArmaghMan said:

They're too small to run as a daily driver, and will be kept as Sunady drivers or track toys.

Actually it's a great daily driver, that's also great for the track.

Too small as a daily driver!? 10,000s of people run much smaller cars as just that - Clios, Minis, hot hatches etc etc.

[Pugsey]

Mermaid said:

ArmaghMan said:

Yeah, those e30 m3's really have fallen off a depreciation cliff!! 0 miles unregd ones are only worth £80k and as for e46 csl values,

The 1M is no classic (or good looking!!), just a great car to drive. Plenty more where that came from.

Although we don't really know do we? Being an old(ish) fart I ran some cars years ago (that were very second hand even then in my defence!) - that are now regarded as classics. But they were just nice cars then.

[Pugsey]

as7920 said:

khooni said:

I think the 1M is value for money from an enthusiast's point of view re driving dynamics and pace but, despite having road presence, it is no looker. And, I really can't see how it can be a looker in the future either. Just look at EVO's comparison of them side by side. No mistaking which one looks better. However at £40k, it is a dynamic bargin for the right enthusiast.

I care about looks too much for a weekend toy......... As a daily driver, I do think that this makes perfect sense if you don't need loads of space and 4 doors.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I have always liked the 1er coupe and I think the 1M takes it to another level. I love the way it looks.


However I would take the Cayman S in a heartbeat if I didn't need the four seats. There's no doubting it looks better but in a different way too. The Cayman R is just too hardcore for my daily driving needs.

Actually I prefer the standard Cayman. Think the R looks like it's been attacked by the max power brigade tbo. Nasty nasty rear spoiler.

Have a good w/e all.

[Pugsey]

NoelWatson said:

Are you still planning on using it as a track car?

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?stor...

Hi Noel,

NO. And don't think I ever have said that. I can't think of one genuine road car that makes a proper track car without mods. I have a Radical & Caterham (even that needed modding) for that purpose. What I have said is that I'm buying the 1M for a very specific purpose - to take me to and from the 'Ring and to use as a car to learn that circuit (with decent instructor installed) in prep for some racing. I expect I'll also have a laugh at a few UK track days too. And to have a laugh - or fun - then of course I don't want a 'perfect' track car on those days which (IMHO) bare little relation to genuine track work - ie racing. I've also said I won't be suprised if I end up 'tinkering' with the 1M a little...............

Also - I don't actually recognise the description PHs gives - not from reading Evo's very in depth test which included track time where the car was equal in times to an M3 and only a shade slower than a Caynam R! I know the guys at Evo who drove the car and know who's word I'll take.......

That said actually for me there will only be one judge who's opinion as to whether the car is fulfilling the role I intend for it will matter - and that's me. And that's the same for us all with our own cars surely.

First 1000 mile 'report' coming soon - if any of you guys can bare reading it!

PS. ER, I've just reread the PH testers comments re the 1M engine too. Whilst he is correct that there IS (obviously) a difference between the power delivery of the 1M's turbo unit and that of the a M3's amazing n/a V8 he exagerates it HUGELY and talks utter nonsense (based on my inital road only experiences and views of others who have driven it on track) in terms of how it compromises the car on track - IMHO of course!

Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 31st May 07:26

Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 31st May 08:00

[Pugsey]

griff7 said:

There are not many cars that are good around the track out of the showroom even a lot of exotica.The 1M with suspension and brakes will be a superb and fun track tool without a doubt.To have 4 seats and have such potential to make into a great allround road and track tool opens it up to a different market.

The friend who picked up his 1M a few weeks ago has it booked into supersprint for an exhaust and kw for the suspension and then evolve for a remap in the next few weeks.To start with just uprated pads and hoses but probably brake kit at a later date,so cant wait to see the results around the ring.

Pugsey when are you planning the 1st ring trip??

Edited by griff7 on Sunday 29th May 11:53

Spot on Griff.

Be interested to here about your pal's car. You're involved in mospo?

Probably end June or early July - haven't looked to see whether there are any good days organised yet - although quite enjoy public days too strangely.

Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 31st May 07:28

[Pugsey]

griff7 said:

breadvan said:

I am loving all the hype about this car!

Before your mate does all the mods, just remember BMW will bring all these parts out shortly with their Personalisation Program and if he goes down the after-market route, he will loose £££ as everyone else will be waiting for BMW first.

There is this obsession with certain people about how much money people will lose!!Everone who has bought one of these is going to lose big £££.Like pugsey and a few others have said they are not bothered about losing money only owning and enjoying driving the car.If you dont want to lose too much then dont buy new or buy something that is a future classic and then you cant put miles on it or enjoy it or it is still worthless.

If you think that buying off bmw is cheaper than buying off the shelf then you are delirious!!When bmw supply brakes they are brembo,and the suspension on the gts is kw so why pay more for the parts off bmw??As far as exhaust is concerned do you really think bmw are going to offer a full turbo back system and if they do at less money than other manufacturers??My friend and i have a lot of contacts for motorsport parts and therefore get some very good deals,but even if we were not in this position we would still buy the parts as it gets the cars to where we want them for our enjoyment.

When certain suppliers offer to supply goods for free in exchange for advertising and a few favours i suppose you would turn that down as well? as the parts are not from bmw?

Yep!

[Pugsey]

Come on chaps - nice friendly topic this one! And stop talking about that fat lardy old M3 will you - yesterdays car lol. Joking, joking!!

Re £costs, try this one for size. A 997turbo COSTS Porsche approx £10k more to build than a BoxsterS..............

[Pugsey]

griff7 said:

Pugsey said:

Spot on Griff.

Be interested to here about your pal's car. You're involved in mospo?

Probably end June or early July - haven't looked to see whether there are any good days organised yet - although quite enjoy public days too strangely.

Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 31st May 07:28

Weather permitting im going out on18th/19th june as quite like public days too,and then a couple of times later in the year as bought a year pass this year.One of the guys who i go with has done 5 24hr races there and has done all the race instructor courses and ran some with another competitor.His last finish was 15th in a private car so he knows his way round quite well so i have been lucky enough to sit in with and have him sit in with me a lot.

My mate should have his mods done in the next 4 to 5 weeks so will keep you posted,so on the 18th /19th he will take the m3 over.
I have competed in the caterham for 8 years now in hillclimbing and circuit racing so do like to do a few track days as well.Have a good friend who raced in the radicals for the last couple of seasons who you might know if you race yours.

Edited by griff7 on Tuesday 31st May 21:13

Cool. Perhaps we'll bump into each other. Er, unfortunate phrasing for the 'Ring! Like to compare notes on mods too. Perhaps you could mail me via here and I'll reply with my e.mail address.

Re racing - don't race the Radical much now. Looking at a few rentadrives at 'Ring later in year and currently also looking at going shares in something post historic. F1,2, or maybe sports prototype. used to race FF, F2000, F3 and F5000 MANY moons ago.